Bible Study DID ELIJAH ASCEND TO HEAVEN?

[BFSmith764]

2Kings 2:1,9-11 – And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. And so it was, when they had crossed over, that Elijah said to Elisha. “Ask what may I do for you, before I am taken away from you.†And Elisha said, “Please let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.†So he said, “You have ask a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not it shall not be so.†Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

ELIJAH’S LETTER TO THE KING
2Chronicles 21:12-15 – And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet. saying,

Thus says the Lord God of your father David: because you
have not walked in the way of Jehoshaphat your father, or
in the way of Asa king of Judah, but have walked in the
way of the kings of Israel, and have made Judah and the
inhabitance of Jerusalem to play the harlot like the harlotry
like the house of Ahab, and also have killed your brothers,
those of your father’s household, who were better than
yourself.
behold, the Lord will strike your people with a serous
affliction – your children, your wives, and all your
possessions, and you will become very sick with a disease
of your intestines, until your intestines comes out by
reason of the sickness day by day.

The above is a letter that Elijah wrote to the king sometime after he was taken up to heaven.


Elijah had a habit of being taken up/transported from them and by God, that's why this man was concern for his life that God would take Elijah away after he told the king that Elijah was back.

1 Kings 18:12 (BBE)
12 And straight away, when I have gone from you, the spirit of the Lord will take you away, I have no idea where, so that when I come and give word to Ahab, and he sees you not, he will put me to death: though I, your servant, have been a worshipper of the Lord from my earliest years.
Elijah was not the only man of God that was lifted up from the ground and taken to another place

Acts 8:39 (NKJV)
39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.
Apparently this is one of the ways that God use to transport His prophets/messengers possible because the place He wanted them to go the distance was long, or maybe urgent.
All died in faith and did not receive the promise

Hebrews 11:13 (ASV)
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

ONLY JESUS HAS ASCENDED TO THE THIRD HEAVEN
John 3:13 – No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is the Son of man who is in heaven.

Elijah did ascend to heaven as the Bible said the question is which heaven did he ascend to? The first heaven is the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome: firmament. The second heaven is the region beyond the earth's atmosphere or beyond the solar system, the place where the stars, Galaxies, solar nebulas are: outer space. And the third is the dwelling place of God, from where He rules over His creation. There is no dought that Elijah ascended to the first heaven. In other words he was lifted up into the air by a whirlwind and taken to another place on the earth.

 

[Alethes]

2Kings 2:1,9-11 – And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. And so it was, when they had crossed over, that Elijah said to Elisha. “Ask what may I do for you, before I am taken away from you.†And Elisha said, “Please let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.†So he said, “You have ask a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not it shall not be so.†Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

No, Elijah did not ascend into heaven. That Elijah ascended into heaven is a contradiction of the Word of God which makes it clear that no one can enter into the Kingdom of Heaven but through the blood of Jesus Christ. Elijah did not receive "remission of sins" because Christ had not yet come to redeem man from his sins.

Elijah and Elisha

In order to understand verses 8-11 of 2 Kings 2, we need to look at the previous and following verses of verse 11.

2 Kings 2:1, 3, 7, 8, 11, 16-18:
(1) And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

(3) And the sons of the prophets that [were] at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know [it]; hold ye your peace.

(7) And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.

(8) And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped [it] together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.

(11) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

(16) And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send.

(17) And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.

(18) And when they came again to him, (for he tarried at Jericho,) he said unto them, Did I not say unto you, Go not?

Elijah and Elisha moved ahead over the Jordan at Jericho. While the fifty sons and the prophet

Elisha watched, Elijah was taken up to heaven as The Word discloses. However, this taken up cannot mean he was transported into the presence of God to abide with Him forever because the fifty sons of the prophets looked for Elijah for three days in the rocky slopes.

If 2 Kings 2:11 meant that Elijah went straight up, the fifty sons of the prophets would never have looked for him on the land. "And Elisha went up by a whirlwind into heaven" means that God took Elisha. Elijah died away from Elisha and the fifty prophetic sons and is buried awaiting the resurrection.

 

[Alabaster]

If 2 Kings 2:11 meant that Elijah went straight up, the fifty sons of the prophets would never have looked for him on the land. "And Elisha went up by a whirlwind into heaven" means that God took Elisha. Elijah died away from Elisha and the fifty prophetic sons and is buried awaiting the resurrection.

Have you made a typo here? Elijah was taken up into heaven, while Elisha succeeded him as prophet.

As the Scriptures tell us that Elijah was taken up into heaven bodily, or translated, I believe it. There is no reason to contradict scripture.

If heaven wasn't open to the righteous dead, then Elijah would have found himself in what we call Hades or Paradise as Jesus put it, where all the righteous dead waited for their Messiah. The gates of Hades was opened by Jesus Christ when He died.

We next see Elijah with Moses at Jesus' transfiguration.

Matthew 17:3
Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared and began talking with Jesus.


Whether Elijah appeared from Hades or heaven itself makes no difference to me!

 

[wavy]

Elijah did ascend to heaven as the Bible said the question is which heaven did he ascend to? The first heaven is the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome: firmament. The second heaven is the region beyond the earth's atmosphere or beyond the solar system, the place where the stars, Galaxies, solar nebulas are: outer space. And the third is the dwelling place of God, from where He rules over His creation. There is no dought that Elijah ascended to the first heaven. In other words he was lifted up into the air by a whirlwind and taken to another place on the earth.

your error here is in your divisions of 'heaven' into three strata...a conception which did not exist until some time (centuries) after the dueteronomistic history was written and reflected in literature like the 2nd book of enoch (first century) and in paul's reference to this division in 2corinthians (also first century).

according to the cosmology of the priestly account of creation (genesis i.1-ii.3), god placed the luminaries, sun, moon and stars, inside the firmament (cf. verses 14 & 17 and known in other literature, such as isaianic and joban literature also as a 'vault' which god walks upon). there's only one heaven in view here, and given that the chronicler omits the account of elijah's assumption, he saw no discrepancy in having elijah writing a letter long after he was supposed to have been assumed. the chronicles are independent accounts from the books of the kings.

the contradiction stands.


~eric

 

[Alabaster]

If there is any contradiction, it is man's, and not Scripture's!

 

[BFSmith764]

2Kings 2:1,9-11 – And it came to pass, when the Lord was about to take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. And so it was, when they had crossed over, that Elijah said to Elisha. “Ask what may I do for you, before I am taken away from you.†And Elisha said, “Please let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.†So he said, “You have ask a hard thing. Nevertheless, if you see me when I am taken from you, it shall be so for you; but if not it shall not be so.†Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

[No, Elijah did not ascend into heaven. That Elijah ascended into heaven is a contradiction of the Word of God which makes it clear that no one can enter into the Kingdom of Heaven but through the blood of Jesus Christ. Elijah did not receive "remission of sins" because Christ had not yet come to redeem man from his sins.

No you are wrong, Elijah did receive the forgiveness of his sins, since he had the Spirit of God in him as we do....in fact all the righteous men and women of the Old Testament had the Spirit of God. God had already predetermined that Jesus would come lived and died for the sins of all, including those who were born before Jesus/Word, would take on human flesh.

 

[BFSmith764]

If 2 Kings 2:11 meant that Elijah went straight up, the fifty sons of the prophets would never have looked for him on the land. "And Elisha went up by a whirlwind into heaven" means that God took Elisha. Elijah died away from Elisha and the fifty prophetic sons and is buried awaiting the resurrection.

Have you made a typo here? Elijah was taken up into heaven, while Elisha succeeded him as prophet.

As the Scriptures tell us that Elijah was taken up into heaven bodily, or translated, I believe it. There is no reason to contradict scripture.

If heaven wasn't open to the righteous dead, then Elijah would have found himself in what we call Hades or Paradise as Jesus put it, where all the righteous dead waited for their Messiah. The gates of Hades was opened by Jesus Christ when He died.

[We next see Elijah with Moses at Jesus' transfiguration.

Matthew 17:3
Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared and began talking with Jesus.

Matthew 17:3 is a vision; the same as what John saw and wrote down in the Book of Revelation....he saw things that were to happen in the future....please do not ignore or put aside that Jesus said that no one has ascended to heaven except the Son of man.....it is important that we believe what Jesus said, or else we are not whom we claim to be.

 

[Alabaster]

No man had ever entered heaven until Jesus came and set those righteous dead free from their place of waiting--Paradise/Hades.

 

[BFSmith764]

No man had ever entered heaven until Jesus came and set those righteous dead free from their place of waiting--Paradise/Hades.

If the righteous was set free by Jesus as you call it, how come it says that David is dead and buried?

Acts 2:29 (HCSB)
29 “Brothers, I can confidently speak to you about the patriarch David: he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

There are no scriptures to support your argument, but if that is what you want to believe fine.

 

[Alabaster]

No man had ever entered heaven until Jesus came and set those righteous dead free from their place of waiting--Paradise/Hades.

If the righteous was set free by Jesus as you call it, how come it says that David is dead and buried?

Acts 2:29 (HCSB)
29 “Brothers, I can confidently speak to you about the patriarch David: he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

There are no scriptures to support your argument, but if that is what you want to believe fine.

You don't know that the body and spirit separate at death?

 

[BFSmith764]

No man had ever entered heaven until Jesus came and set those righteous dead free from their place of waiting--Paradise/Hades.

If the righteous was set free by Jesus as you call it, how come it says that David is dead and buried?

Acts 2:29 (HCSB)
29 “Brothers, I can confidently speak to you about the patriarch David: he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

There are no scriptures to support your argument, but if that is what you want to believe fine.

You don't know that the body and spirit separate at death?

Yes the spirit separates at death, but that also includes the unbeliever....all who dies there spirit goes back to God. But that does not mean that the person is alive...the spirit was made to function with the body, and once the body dies the complete person cannot function.


Acts 2:29 did not say that David was in heaven but his body is dead and buried.

All died in faith and have not received the promise

Hebrews 11:4-13 (ASV)
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he had witness borne to him that he was righteous, God bearing witness in respect of his gifts: and through it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God translated him: for he hath had witness borne to him that before his translation he had been well-pleasing unto God:
6 And without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed to go out unto a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he became a sojourner in the land of promise, as in a land not his own, dwelling in tents, with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 for he looked for the city which hath the foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith even Sarah herself received power to conceive seed when she was past age, since she counted him faithful who had promised:
12 wherefore also there sprang of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of heaven in multitude, and as the sand, which is by the sea-shore, innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


The dead in Christ shall rise first

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (ASV)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;

If the dead in Christ are alive in heaven, then why would they need to be raised from the dead?

 

[BFSmith764]

Elijah did ascend to heaven as the Bible said the question is which heaven did he ascend to? The first heaven is the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome: firmament. The second heaven is the region beyond the earth's atmosphere or beyond the solar system, the place where the stars, Galaxies, solar nebulas are: outer space. And the third is the dwelling place of God, from where He rules over His creation. There is no dought that Elijah ascended to the first heaven. In other words he was lifted up into the air by a whirlwind and taken to another place on the earth.

your error here is in your divisions of 'heaven' into three strata...a conception which did not exist until some time (centuries) after the dueteronomistic history was written and reflected in literature like the 2nd book of enoch (first century) and in paul's reference to this division in 2corinthians (also first century).

according to the cosmology of the priestly account of creation (genesis i.1-ii.3), god placed the luminaries, sun, moon and stars, inside the firmament (cf. verses 14 & 17 and known in other literature, such as isaianic and joban literature also as a 'vault' which god walks upon). there's only one heaven in view here, and given that the chronicler omits the account of elijah's assumption, he saw no discrepancy in having elijah writing a letter long after he was supposed to have been assumed. the chronicles are independent accounts from the books of the kings.

the contradiction stands.


~eric

Belive as you wish.

 

[Alabaster]

If the dead in Christ are alive in heaven, then why would they need to be raised from the dead?

They need bodies so they can be like Jesus! We will be living in the New Earth--a physical plane. We will need flesh---but it will be like Jesus' glorified flesh!

 

[BFSmith764]

If the dead in Christ are alive in heaven, then why would they need to be raised from the dead?

They need bodies so they can be like Jesus! We will be living in the New Earth--a physical plane. We will need flesh---but it will be like Jesus' glorified flesh!

And that is why they are dead as it says in the scriptures that I posted....incidentally the Bible does not say that we will be flesh, it says we will have a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (ASV)
44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God

1 Corinthians 15:50 (ASV)
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[Alabaster]

If the dead in Christ are alive in heaven, then why would they need to be raised from the dead?

They need bodies so they can be like Jesus! We will be living in the New Earth--a physical plane. We will need flesh---but it will be like Jesus' glorified flesh!

And that is why they are dead as it says in the scriptures that I posted....incidentally the Bible does not say that we will be flesh, it says we will have a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (ASV)
44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God

1 Corinthians 15:50 (ASV)
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

We will have a glorified flesh body JUST LIKE JESUS DOES! It is not mere flesh and blood, but holy and righteous and fit to see God! There is nothing corrupt about it!

 

[BFSmith764]

[We will have a glorified flesh body JUST LIKE JESUS DOES! It is not mere flesh and blood, but holy and righteous and fit to see God! There is nothing corrupt about it!

Glorified or not, flesh is still flesh and it says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. So Jesus does not have a body that is flesh...yes it's physical body but not flesh....it's a glorified spiritual body.

 

[Alabaster]

[We will have a glorified flesh body JUST LIKE JESUS DOES! It is not mere flesh and blood, but holy and righteous and fit to see God! There is nothing corrupt about it!

Glorified or not, flesh is still flesh and it says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. So Jesus does not have a body that is flesh...yes it's physical body but not flesh....it's a glorified spiritual body.

When the Word tells me I will be like Jesus, putting on the unperishable, I believe it. Jesus DOES have a glorified flesh body. In fact, it's the same thing you are saying anyway--we will have a spiritual, yet fleshly body. Sorry to burst your bubble!

 

[BFSmith764]

[We will have a glorified flesh body JUST LIKE JESUS DOES! It is not mere flesh and blood, but holy and righteous and fit to see God! There is nothing corrupt about it!

Glorified or not, flesh is still flesh and it says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. So Jesus does not have a body that is flesh...yes it's physical body but not flesh....it's a glorified spiritual body.

When the Word tells me I will be like Jesus, putting on the unperishable, I believe it. Jesus DOES have a glorified flesh body. In fact, it's the same thing you are saying anyway--we will have a spiritual, yet fleshly body. Sorry to burst your bubble!

No I am not; you choose to see what you want....not everything that is physical is flesh, and God is not limited that He cannot create a physical body that is not flesh.

 

[Alabaster]

Well, God isn't planning on creating something that isn't flesh! Flesh is good--He created it! It is just that we are tainted with sin, but we will be made perfect and incorruptible like Jesus is now. He has a body of flesh. His disciples saw it. Hundreds of people saw it. But He was able to walk through walls. We will also. He ate food--to feed His flesh. We will also.

There is a promise that we will be like Him. Glorified and perfect, the way we were meant to be!

1 John 3:2 NLT
Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is.


Philippians 3:20-21 NLT
But we are citizens of heaven, where the Lord Jesus Christ lives. And we are eagerly waiting for him to return as our Savior. He will take our weak mortal bodies and change them into glorious bodies like his own, using the same power with which he will bring everything under his control.

 

[BFSmith764]

Well, God isn't planning on creating something that isn't flesh! Flesh is good--He created it! It is just that we are tainted with sin, but we will be made perfect and incorruptible like Jesus is now. He has a body of flesh. His disciples saw it. Hundreds of people saw it. But He was able to walk through walls. We will also. He ate food--to feed His flesh. We will also.

There is a promise that we will be like Him. Glorified and perfect, the way we were meant to be!

1 John 3:2 NLT
Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is.


Philippians 3:20-21 NLT
But we are citizens of heaven, where the Lord Jesus Christ lives. And we are eagerly waiting for him to return as our Savior. He will take our weak mortal bodies and change them into glorious bodies like his own, using the same power with which he will bring everything under his control.

Ok, what you believe is what you believe, and that's fine with me...take care.