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Bible Study did Enoch die ?

So are you saying the Bible contradicts itself?

Never.

According to the biblical narrative (Genesis 5:21-24), Enoch lived only 365 years (far less than the other patriarchs in the period before the Flood).

And Paul said all those Elders in Hebrews 11 died (Heb 11:13) ---- no contradiction at all.
 
I can't help myself.

I do not believe that Enoch ascended into heaven, I believe that he was translated which is not the same thing.

Philip was also translated from one place to another twice, the first time when he appeared in the plasve where the Eunuch was, and later when he had finished dealing with the Eunuch!
 
evanman

Philip was also translated from one place to another twice, the first time when he appeared in the plasve where the Eunuch was, and later when he had finished dealing with the Eunuch!

good point ! ------------- sharp mind.

"....the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more" (was not found) --- Acts 8: 39.


"But Philip WAS FOUND at Azotus:...." -- Acts 8: 30.

Sound familiar? "not found" ----- "taken away" (caught away) ----- "God took him"
 
The other passage in Hebrews 11:5 is a little more difficult. The essence of the passage is that because Enoch pleased God, God “translated†him, and because of this, he did not see death.

Keep in mind, nothing is said here either about his being “trans­lated†into Heaven, but just translated so he would not see death.

http://bibletools.org//index.cfm/fuseac ... ochEli.htm
 
Hello Brutus/HisCatalyst

Yes, but the question posed in this Topic is did he die, and the bible clearly says he didn't.

Jesus says that NO MAN has ascended up to heaven. Sort of eliminates Enoch right there doesn't it? Since Jesus is the God we read of in the Old Testament, He should have remembered if Enoch did go up to heaven...right?
 
The topic of your thread he asks did enoch really die, which the bible even says he did not die. What actually hapened, who knows?
 
Hello Brutus/HisCatalyst

.......which the bible even says he did not die

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death;" -- Hebrews 11 :5

Remember, there is more than one death mentioned in the Bible. There is a first death, and there is a second death (Rev. 20:6).

Which death did Paul mean?
 
That posses an interesting question, but it would seem logical we are talking about both deaths. If enoch was as righteuous as Genesis claims he was, then why would he face the second death? But then again Hebrews says that Enoch did not face the pain of death which suggests the first death.
 
Hello Brutus/HisCatalyst

If enoch was as righteuous as Genesis claims he was, then why would he face the second death?

Exactly. He would avoid this second death -- like all Christians (Col. 1:13).

But then again Hebrews says that Enoch did not face the pain of death which suggests the first death.

Paul did give a list of many OT Elders, and he said of these all: "These ALL died in faith...." -- Heb. 11:13. Perhaps he meant Enoch, too.
 
Paul did give a list of many OT Elders, and he said of these all: "These ALL died in faith...." -- Heb. 11:13. Perhaps he meant Enoch, too.

Does this mean that you might be mistaken?
 
Does this mean that you might be mistaken?

No. I believe Paul meant everyone in Hebrews --- all fifteen.

If he wanted to say "all but one" he could have.

Paul closes out Hebrews 11 by once again saying: "And THESE ALL, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise...." (Heb. 11:39).


I was just trying to be diplomatic --- when I shouldn't be.
 
Hello Brutus/HisCatalyst

Enoch did not die. Read Genesis,

Genesis 5
21 When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah.
22 And after he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters.
23 Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years.
24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.


God took him. God took my Uncle Billy away at age 89. Enoch faired much better. God took him at 365.


Genesis 5:21-24 :: New International Version (NIV)


I don't see it.

Could you please underline the sentence that says "Encoh did not die". THANK YOU.
 
Look Bob10, if you wouldn't mind pointing out for me where he did die in that passage I'll stop. The Context clearly says he did not die he was just no more.

And on your point if you would like to use the NIV, here's what your case verse in Hebrews 11 says

HEB 11:39 These were all commended by their faith, yet none of them had received what was promised. [NIV]

So where again is Paul saying Enoch died.

As for Hebrews 11:13 here's what the scholars say.

HEB 11:13 These all died in faith…
Not all the seed of Abraham, but all the believers in the preceding verses, excepting Enoch, particularly the three patriarchs, with Sarah; these died a corporeal death, which is common to all, to the righteous, and to the wicked; and yet saints die not as other men; they die in faith, having the grace itself, which being once implanted, can never be lost; and sometimes in the exercise of it, as these believers did: they died in the faith of their posterity inheriting the land of Canaan, and in the faith of the promised Messiah, and in the believing views of the heavenly glory; and so to die is comfortable to themselves, and a confirmation of the truth of religion to others, and is very precious, desirable, and gainful. It may be rendered, "according to faith"; they died according to the life of faith they lived, and the doctrine of faith they professed, being the Lord's both living and dying. Not having received the promises; the things promised, the land of Canaan, the Messiah, and the blessings of the Gospel dispensation; they had the promises of these things, and though they were not fulfilled in their days, they believed they would be fulfilled, and died in the faith of them: having seen them afar off;

the things themselves in the promise; as Abraham saw the going forth of his posterity out of Egypt, after they had been afflicted four hundred years, and saw the day of Christ at a greater distance still, (Genesis 15:13,14) (John 8:56) . And were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them]; they had a full assurance of faith, that what was promised would be fulfilled; and they took a kind of possession of them before hand, as Abraham did of the land of Canaan, by sojourning in it; as did also Isaac and Jacob; and all of them by faith embraced the Messiah, and dealt with, and laid hold upon his blood, righteousness, sacrifice, and grace, by which they were saved, as New Testament saints are. And confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth; for they sojourned in the land of Canaan, as in a strange land, as the saints do in this world; see (Hebrews 11:9) . And they were pilgrims, travelling through this world to the heavenly country, and they confessed themselves to be such, (Genesis 47:9) nor are believers ashamed to own and confess their mean estate in this world; for it is only with respect to earth, and earthly things, that they are strangers and pilgrims, and only while they are on earth; and it is therefore but for a little time that they are so, ere long they will be at home, and know as they are known. [Gill's]
 
ooh, my turn!

I'm going to have to go with evanman on this one, though I do not claim to be the final authority. There are several references in the bible of there being different parts of Heaven. For example verse 2 of 2 Corinthians chapter 12 says: “I knew a man who 14 years ago was caught up into the third Heaven; whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows.â€Â

That is a reference to the belief that there are different parts of Heaven. Plus you would think that Paul, one of the greatest scholars of all time would know if someone physical can be taken into Heaven.

I imagine the Heaven after Jesus' resurrection and after his return is different than the one before. Believers will go somewhere very different after judgment day. Perhaps Yeshua (Jesus) was not being very specific when he said no man should ascend into Heaven. But Second Kings clearly states speaking of Elijah in verse 11: “As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them, and Elijah ascended in a whirlwind into heaven.â€Â

Now I suppose that it's possible that the whirlwind killed Elijah, but that doesn't seem to be where the story is headed. And if that kind of grand finale is possible for Elijah, then I would think it possible of Enoch since that’s what his story indicates. I think the problem here was not that Yeshua was wrong obviously, but that he was vague; which he was quite often in his lifetime. But like he said, this is a non-essential doctrine, so there is no reason to be hurting relationships or splitting the church over it.
 
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