[_ Old Earth _] Did Jesus Die and Rise on the Third Day?

[Crying Rock]

John 19:33-34 (New International Version)

33But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Matthew 28:2-7 (New International Version)

2There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

5The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7Then go quickly and tell his disciples: 'He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.' Now I have told you."

How do we explain this in purely scientific terms?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOb8ihacSM4

 

[lordkalvan]

Why do you suppose that the obviously supernatural could be explained 'in scientific terms' by a system of acquiring knowledge that uses observation and experimentation to describe and explain natural phenomena?

 

[Barbarian]

How do we explain this in purely scientific terms?

And Sensei Jomen asked "How is it that one cannot take a photograph with an adding machine? Cha'an has no answer for this."

Most inscrutable...

 

[Crying Rock]

Why do you suppose that the obviously supernatural could be explained 'in scientific terms' by a system of acquiring knowledge that uses observation and experimentation to describe and explain natural phenomena?

I assume you believe that Jesus died and rose on the third day (please correct me if I'm wrong). If so then do you believe things that are true are beyond the scope of science? For example, is the cause of the universe supernatural? How about the earth? How about life? You catch my drift.

 

[lordkalvan]

Why do you suppose that the obviously supernatural could be explained 'in scientific terms' by a system of acquiring knowledge that uses observation and experimentation to describe and explain natural phenomena?

I assume you believe that Jesus died and rose on the third day (please correct me if I'm wrong).

No, so yes, you're wrong.

If so then do you believe things that are true are beyond the scope of science?

I have no idea whether things are 'true beyond the scope of science' or not. I am not entirely sure what you mean exactly. There are aspects of the natural Universe that science is at yet unable to fully (or even partially) explain; this does not mean that they are forever beyond the understanding of science.

For example, is the cause of the universe supernatural?

Probably not.

How about the earth?

No.

How about life?

No.

You catch my drift.

Yes, but I don't see what it has to do with your initial questions.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

I think there are some things that science will never be able to explain since it is based on how we experience and perceive our world. Obviously, there are dynamics that we will never be able to perceive, measure or experience.

Now, to the OP's question. There are many aspects of Jesus' death and ressurection that science / history / archeology can explain and or analyze. Some of which are as follows:

- Did Jesus die on the cross?
- If he did, would his injuries and his subsequent crucifiction led to death within 6 hours?
- Was he buried in a tomb?
- Was the tomb empty 3 days later?
- Did people see him after his death?

Now, whether or not you can scare up evidence to be analyzed is another story all together. If his crucifiction happened today, we would be able to analyze several aspects and go all CSI on the event. What we can look to today is the evidence within the Bible. We can discern whether or not we feel the gospels are credible and if they are credible if the eye witness testimony within them holds up under scrutiny.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Crying Rock]

Why do you suppose that the obviously supernatural could be explained 'in scientific terms' by a system of acquiring knowledge that uses observation and experimentation to describe and explain natural phenomena?

I assume you believe that Jesus died and rose on the third day (please correct me if I'm wrong).

No, so yes, you're wrong.

So your not a Christian according to this board's Statement of Faith?

“…Jesus Christ, God's only Son, was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born a virgin birth, lived a sinless life, died an atoning death upon a cross, raised from the dead, and ascended to the right hand of the Father where He will one day return to the earth…â€Â

viewtopic.php?t=11740

I'm just trying to clarify from where you're coming.

 

[lordkalvan]

So your not a Christian according to this board's Statement of Faith?...

If it makes you more comfortable pigeon-holing me, you can put me down as a Christian-Atheist.

I'm just trying to clarify from where you're coming.

I would have thought that was fairly obvious.

 

[Crying Rock]

So your not a Christian according to this board's Statement of Faith?...

If it makes you more comfortable pigeon-holing me, you can put me down as a Christian-Atheist.

I'm just trying to clarify from where you're coming.

I would have thought that was fairly obvious.

I wasn't sure. There are many Christians that believe evolution and Christianity are reconcilable.

Since this board is titled: "Christianity & Science"

I guess there is no use in wasting each others' time.

Best Regards,

CR

 

[lordkalvan]

I wasn't sure. There are many Christians that believe evolution and Christianity are reconcilable.

Since this board is titled: "Christianity & Science"

I guess there is no use in wasting each others' time.

I thought the forum was about discussion amongst differing points of view. How is this a waste of time?

 

[Crying Rock]

This board is titled Christianity & Science, not Atheism & Science. I don't get why you're here? :gah

Are you here to evangelize? Do you not think the majority of us have had a healthy dose of evolution instruction? Many at the graduate level?

 

[lordkalvan]

This board is titled Christianity & Science, not Atheism & Science. I don't get why you're here?

Why do Christians post on allegedly 'atheist' sites such as TalkRational? Don't you like considering and arguing against alternative viewpoints? Did you miss the 'Christian' part of the label I attached to myself at your request?

Are you here to evangelize?

No.

Do you not think the majority of us have had a healthy dose of evolution instruction?

What is 'evolution instruction'? What is 'a healthy dose'? What does it matter what I think of the level of education and understanding of the 'majority'? I am minded of the horse that you can lead to water but not make drink.

Many at the graduate level?

Graduate-level skills include the ability and willingness to take on, consider and debate alternative points of view in a reasonably civilized way. If all you want is a small, exclusive club that does nothing but congratulate itself on its own superior understanding over that of the rest of us, just say so. How many Christians are you aware of who are convinced proponents of evolutionary theory and a Universe whose age is measured in billions of years? Would you like to exclude them as well?

 

[Crying Rock]

Why do Christians post on allegedly 'atheist' sites such as TalkRational? Don't you like considering and arguing against alternative viewpoints

I'm an anthropologist, so I argue daily about differing viewpoints. Why you're arguing such alternative viewpoints on a Christian board baffle's me. Especially as a self-professed atheist. I don't bother with atheist sites. Again I ask, what is your motive, as an atheist, to participate on a Christian board. The only answer I can derive is you're here to evangelize.

How many Christians are you aware of who are convinced proponents of evolutionary theory and a Universe whose age is measured in billions of years? Would you like to exclude them as well?

No, because they confess that God is behind it all.

These are the type topics that should be argued here.

They're not atheist, trying to convince Christians that there is no God.

 

[lordkalvan]

Why do Christians post on allegedly 'atheist' sites such as TalkRational? Don't you like considering and arguing against alternative viewpoints

I'm an anthropologist, so I argue daily about differing viewpoints.

I like the intellectual challenge of considering alternative viewpoints discussing subjects in which I have a degree of interest.

Why you're arguing such alternative viewpoints on a Christian board baffle's me.

Because I don't like always being a representative of the majority opinion.

Especially as a self-professed atheist.

That was a Christian-Atheist.

I don't bother with atheist sites.

That's your choice.

Again I ask, what is your motive, as an atheist, to participate on a Christian board.

See above.

The only answer I can derive is you're here to evangelize.

No, see above. I have no expectation of the power of my arguments to persuade anyone to change their belief system. You can't reason someone out of something they haven't been reasoned into.

[quote:2ftd7y3q]How many Christians are you aware of who are convinced proponents of evolutionary theory and a Universe whose age is measured in billions of years? Would you like to exclude them as well?

No, because they confess that God is behind it all. [/quote:2ftd7y3q]
So would you like to exclude everyone who doubts that the God of Christianity 'is behind it all'?

These are the type topics that should be argued here.

How can you argue about something that everyone agrees on?

They're not atheist, trying to convince Christians that there is no God.

Different Christians have different perceptions of God. Are they all 'right'?

 

[Crying Rock]

“…That was a Christian-Atheist…â€Â

What the heck is a “Christian-Atheist�


â€Â…So would you like to exclude everyone who doubts that the God of Christianity 'is behind it all…â€Â

On a forum entitled: Christianity & Science- yes.

 

[lordkalvan]

“…That was a Christian-Atheist…â€Â

What the heck is a “Christian-Atheist�

Someone who can value the the ethical and moral teachings of Christ without supposing that he was also the incarnation of a supernatural being that there seems to be no or persuasive plausible reason to believe in.

â€Â…So would you like to exclude everyone who doubts that the God of Christianity 'is behind it all…â€Â

On a forum entitled: Christianity & Science- yes.

Why does the title that a forum is endowed with predetermine who might be allowed to post there, especially as the forum is described as one offering 'open discussion'? Should anyone who is not at least a graduate in a science be excluded from posting as well?

 

[Crying Rock]

“…That was a Christian-Atheist…â€Â

What the heck is a “Christian-Atheist�

Someone who can value the the ethical and moral teachings of Christ without supposing that he was also the incarnation of a supernatural being that there seems to be no or persuasive plausible reason to believe in.

So your an atheist that agrees with the ethical and moral teaching of a man named Jesus.

According to this board a Christian is:

viewtopic.php?t=11740

Does that describe you?

 

[lordkalvan]

viewtopic.php?t=11740[/url]

Does that describe you?[/quote:3beshdk0]
I don't think this board holds the exclusive power of determining who may and may not be identified as a Christian. What term would you use for someone who considers Christ's ethical teachings provide a sound basis for leading a life considerate of others, and yet doesn't believe in Christ's divinity?

 

[Free]

What term would you use for someone who considers Christ's ethical teachings provide a sound basis for leading a life considerate of others, and yet doesn't believe in Christ's divinity?

Mislead. ;)

 

[lordkalvan]

What term would you use for someone who considers Christ's ethical teachings provide a sound basis for leading a life considerate of others, and yet doesn't believe in Christ's divinity?

Mislead. ;)

Made me laugh!