Did Muhammad ever encourage deceit? YES or NO

[cheese]

How can Jesus sit in Gods right hand if you believe Jesus is God.

This whole discussion is pointless as it is based on nothing but lies on your behalf. When you decide to open your eyes to the truth, ill be there for you.

There is no point is this discussion. It going no where. The more you link to anti-islamic source, the less purpose i have in this thread as all i will be doing is reminding you that anti-islamic sources are not the places to go for information on Islam.

 

[Gary]

The prophet of doom..... Muhammad

...There is no point is this discussion. It going no where. The more you link to anti-islamic source, the less purpose i have in this thread as all i will be doing is reminding you that anti-islamic sources are not the places to go for information on Islam.

The source is the Quran and the Hadith.... and Islamic history.

• ....we shall dive into the oldest surviving written evidence. These official works include: (1) the Sira, (2) Ta'rikh, (3) Hadith, and (4) Qur'an. Ishaq's Sira, or biography, called Sirat Rasul Allah, provides the lone account of Muhammad's life and the formation of Islam written within 200 years of the prophet's death. While the character, message, and deeds portrayed within its pages are the antithesis of Christ's and his disciples, the Sira's chronological presentation is similar in style to the Christian Gospels. The Ta'rikh is the oldest, most trusted and comprehensive history of Islam's formation and Muhammad's example, called Sunnah. It was written by Tabari. His History of al-Tabari is formatted like the Bible. It begins with Islamic creation and ends with the acts of Muhammad's companions. Tabari is a compilation of Hadith quotes and Qur'an passages. As such, it provides the best skeleton upon which to flesh out the character of Muhammad and the nature of fundamental Islam. A Hadith is an oral report from Muhammad or his companions. Muslims believe that Hadith were inspired by Allah, making them scripture. The most revered Collection was compiled in a topical arrangement by Bukhari. Allah's Book, the Qur'an, lacks context and chronology, so to understand it, readers are dependent upon the Sira, Ta'rikh, and Hadith.
  
  All that can be known about Muhammad's deeds, means, motives, god, and scripture is enshrined in these books.

http://prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=4701&i=471008

 

[cheese]

...and interpreted by a non-muslim with the intention of creating hate towards Islam.

:roll:

 

[Gary]

The intention.... expose Muhammad

cheese: .......and interpreted by a non-muslim with the intention of creating hate towards Islam.

Gary: No. Doing exactly what Jesus said we should do. Judge false prophets by their deeds (their fruit). Muhammad's fruit is rotten.

.

 

[Gary]

Prophet of Doom - Muhammad

The critics of this work will claim that Prophet of Doom is offensive, racist, hatemongering, intolerant, and unnecessarily violent. I (Craig Winn) agreeâ€â€but I didn't write those parts. They came directly from Islam's scriptures. If you don't like what Muhammad and Allah said, don't blame me. I'm just the messenger.

Others will say that I cherry-picked the worst of Islam to render an unfair verdict. They will charge that I took the Islamic scriptures out of context to smear Muhammad and Allah. But none of that is true. Over the course of these pages, I quote from almost every surah in the Qur'anâ€â€many are presented in their entirety. But more than that, I put each verse in the context of Muhammad's life, quoting vociferously from the Sunnah as recorded by Bukhari, Muslim, Ishaq, and Tabariâ€â€Islam's earliest and more trusted sources. I even arrange all of this material chronologically, from creation to terror.

http://prophetofdoom.net/chapter.aspx?g=401&i=41003

 

[cheese]

The Holy Quran. Chapter of the Disbelievers:

1. Say: O Al-kafirun.
2. I Worship not that which you worship.
3. Nor will you worship that which i worship.
4. And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.5. Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your religion and to me my religion.

 

[Gary]

Exposing the contradictions

The Quran. Chapter of the Disbelievers:

1. Say: O Al-kafirun.
2. I Worship not that which you worship.
3. Nor will you worship that which i worship.
4. And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping.5. Nor will you worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your religion and to me my religion.

.... and contradicted here:

Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.†[Another translation says:] “pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority and their state of subjection.â€Â

Yeah, real tolerant Muhammad!

:smt027

 

[cheese]

Yes it is isnt it? Fight the evil doers so that they do not spread corruption to the land and spread the law of GOD so that there may be justice and peace.

Contradiction? Nope. Different context? Yep.

 

[Gary]

The kill for Muhammad...

... so at last you admit it..... you are here to FIGHT Christians and Jews. And, if need be, like Muhammad, to KILL for your religion.

 

[cheese]

No actualy im not here to fight anyone. There cant be any fighting because there is no Caliph (i.e. the one leader for ALL the Muslims). And also this fighting isnt against individuals generally, it is against their armies or other people who get themselves involved. Once Islamic law is established in their land, they may continue to worship as they wish, but they will pay a tax which garauntees them protection provided by the Islamic state.

It is a great honour to kill and to be killed when you are fighting for GOD, to spread the word of GOD, to bring peace and justice to the lives of others and to destroy those who do evil. And it is only fighting for the sake of God that is allowed in Islam.

 

[jgredline]

It is a great honour to kill and to be killed when you are fighting for GOD, to spread the word of GOD, to bring peace and justice to the lives of others and to destroy those who do evil. And it is only fighting for the sake of God that is allowed in Islam.

This is exactly what gets promoted in your Mosque
This is why you don't tape or broadcast these messages.

 

[jgredline]

It is a great honour to kill and to be killed when you are fighting for GOD, to spread the word of GOD, to bring peace and justice to the lives of others and to destroy those who do evil. And it is only fighting for the sake of God that is allowed in Islam.

This is exactly what gets promoted in your Mosque
This is why you don't tape or broadcast these messages.

 

[jgredline]

It is a great honour to kill and to be killed when you are fighting for GOD, to spread the word of GOD, to bring peace and justice to the lives of others and to destroy those who do evil. And it is only fighting for the sake of God that is allowed in Islam.

This is exactly what gets promoted in your Mosque
This is why you don't tape or broadcast these messages.

 

[cheese]

oh ok so are you telling me that if your God demanded you to kill for his sake you would not do it? Shows how much faith you have in god doesnt it?

Believe me- what i have said is nothing worth hiding. what kind of lost case would be against fighting for the sake of God, justice and peace?

p.s. i dont know of a single Mosque where non-muslims are not allowed to enter, except for those located in the 2 cities in Saudi arabia where non-muslims are not allowed to enter.

 

[Gary]

Exposing Islam....

cheese: No actual im not here to fight anyone.
Gary: Are you here to make friends with Christians? Your prophet said you should not make friends with Jews nor with Christians.

cheese: There cant be any fighting because there is no Caliph (i.e. the one leader for ALL the Muslims).
Gary: Not true. Since the day Muhammad died, Muslims have been fighting non-Muslims and killing them in the name of Muhammad's god called Allah.

cheese: And also this fighting isnt against individuals generally, it is against their armies or other people who get themselves involved.
Gary: Again, not true. Once you have declared people (however you define "people") to be enemies of Muhammad or Islam, you are free to deceive them, kill them, murder them... all for your god called Allah. You make no distinction between armies and civilians.

cheese: Once Islamic law is established in their land, they may continue to worship as they wish, but they will pay a tax which garauntees them protection provided by the Islamic state.
Gary: Yes, Islam is very deceptive when it comes to this. Be subservient UNTIL you get control. Then tax them.

cheese: It is a great honour to kill and to be killed when you are fighting for Allah, to spread the word of ALLAH, to bring peace and justice to the lives of others and to destroy those who do evil. And it is only fighting for the sake of Allah that is allowed in Islam.
Gary: Unfortunately, it is evil men who decide who and what "fighting and killing for Allah" means. They fly airplanes into buildings with cries and frenzied shouts of "Allah is great"! I see no honor in that. It is pure terrorism.

:o

Read more on DHIMMI

A person belonging to the category of "protected people" (ahl ad-Dhimmah) in the Islamic state. Only those from the "people of the Book" (Jews and Christians) can become Dhimmis and then have certain rights, like privately worshipping according to their religion, as long as they pay the "protection money" (jizya) but are not considered citizens of the country. Their status has to be one of humiliation (Surah 9:29).

• One needs to understand this term "protected people" properly. Protected from whom? From the Muslims! It is the same dynamic as when the mafia comes to a shop owner and tells him, from now on we are protecting you, and you are going to pay us such amount of money for this protection. You will not have to bear a weapon yourself. We take that responsibility.

Details on this state of affairs in Islamic Shari'ah, Islamic history and present reality can be found here:
http://www.dhimmi.org/

:o

 

[cheese]

Yes 9/11 is an act of terrorism, where in my post did i say 9/11 was the way we should fight in the name of god?

I am not here to make friends with anyone but to be involved in discussion. And by the way by friend, it is meant, protecters, providers etc, not 'hi bob how you going' kinda thing.

There have been Caliphs until very recently. The early fighting was justified and was truely in the name of God.

It is unlawful to kill innocent civlians in war in Islam. If they get themselves involved that is a different story.

it work as follows: Tell the leaders about Islam. If they refuse it, conquer them. Once conquered they have the option to either become Muslim and pay no tax (other than the Muslim version of the tax), or remain non-muslim and pay a different kind of tax that will ensure their protection from outsiders.

Please dont reply to this as you did before, there is no use in it! and i do not wish to continue in this manner.

 

[Gary]

Exposing Muhammad religion

cheese: No actual im not here to fight anyone.
Gary: Are you here to make friends with Christians? Your prophet said you should not make friends with Jews nor with Christians.
cheese: I am not here to make friends with anyone but to be involved in discussion. And by the way by friend, it is meant, protecters, providers etc, not 'hi bob how you going' kinda thing.
Gary: Jesus told us to love all... even our enemies. Muhammad tells you to KILL your enemies. Totally different.

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cheese: There cant be any fighting because there is no Caliph (i.e. the one leader for ALL the Muslims).
Gary: Not true. Since the day Muhammad died, Muslims have been fighting non-Muslims and killing them in the name of Muhammad's god called Allah.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cheese: And also this fighting isnt against individuals generally, it is against their armies or other people who get themselves involved.
Gary: Again, not true. Once you have declared people (however you define "people") to be enemies of Muhammad or Islam, you are free to deceive them, kill them, murder them... all for your god called Allah. You make no distinction between armies and civilians.
cheese: It is unlawful to kill innocent civlians in war in Islam. If they get themselves involved that is a different story.
Gary: Again, not true. Your Jihad (holy war) will continue until all are conquered and everyone is under the rule of Islam. Murder and plunder. Civilians or soldiers.

Iman Ahmed quoted Ibn Abbas as saying: “A man from Banu Saalim who was herding his sheep, passed by a group of the Prophet’s companions, and greeted them. They said: “He only greeted us in order to seek our protection.†They went to him and killed him. Afterwards, they brought his sheep to the Prophet and the above verse was revealed.â€Ââ€Â

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cheese: Once Islamic law is established in their land, they may continue to worship as they wish, but they will pay a tax which guarantees them protection provided by the Islamic state.
Gary: Yes, Islam is very deceptive when it comes to this. Be subservient UNTIL you get control. Then tax them.
cheese: It works as follows: Tell the leaders about Islam. If they refuse it, conquer them. Once conquered they have the option to either become Muslim and pay no tax (other than the Muslim version of the tax), or remain non-muslim and pay a different kind of tax that will ensure their protection from outsiders.
Gary: The Mafia use the same system.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

cheese: It is a great honour to kill and to be killed when you are fighting for Allah, to spread the word of ALLAH, to bring peace and justice to the lives of others and to destroy those who do evil. And it is only fighting for the sake of Allah that is allowed in Islam.
Gary: Unfortunately, it is evil men who decide who and what "fighting and killing for Allah" means. They fly airplanes into buildings with cries and frenzied shouts of "Allah is great"! I see no honor in that. It is pure terrorism.
cheese: Yes 9/11 is an act of terrorism, where in my post did i say 9/11 was the way we should fight in the name of Allah?
Gary: In all the hundreds of wars and millions of killings in the name of Islam, which ones were done correctly, in the name of your god Allah? Start with the wars right after Muhammad's death when Muslims killed and murdered Muslims. Was that the work of your god called Allah? Who determines (since the death of Muhammad) when it is right to kill and murder for Islam?
cheese: There have been Caliphs until very recently. The early fighting was justified and was truly in the name of Allah.
Gary: The first Caliphs acted like thugs as well. Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali all have innocent blood on their hands. Umar expelled all Jews and Christians from Arabia. Uthman was murdered by the son of Abu Bakr. Ali caused the deaths of tens of thousands of Muslims in many wars. Hardly role models.

:-?

 

[cheese]

I can not guide you away from ignorance Gray. You go ahead and continue to spread your lies about Islam, my only wish is that you would not feed such lies to others.

 

[Gary]

The truth....

Deep down you know what I say is true. You have access to the same Quran and the same Hadith that I have.

Deep down you feel disturbed about the life and actions of your prophet.

Deep down you realise that Jesus taught and lived a very different life and showed a completely different set of morals and ethics to what your prophet displayed.

Deep down you know you are missing something.

That something is a loving, working, living and growing relationship with the Lord through Jesus Christ. What better example to follow than Him....

 

[cheese]

LOL

Praise be to God- Deep down i love my Lord and i love His Messenger, May peace and blessing be upon him for he has truly sacrificed much for the sake of the Muslims.