Did the Lord Jesus say they would see his return ?

[johnny botwright]

in the book of Mathew chapter 10.23 Jesus says they would not have preached to all the cities of Israel before the son of man would come.


and in Mathew 24. 34 Mark 13 .30 which looked like they were both copied from the same early manuscript.

Jesus says, all he was out lining regarding the signs of the times that this generation would not pass till all these things had been done, again including his return. ?

was Jesus implying his ressurection,? pentecost? and the out pouring of the Holy spirit, ?

any explanation as to what was really being said here, ? translation error ?

johnny

 

[Gazelle]

For the comment Christ made about "this generation would not pass" he was referring to the generation that saw what he had described, the budding of the fig tree, the rebirth of Israel as a nation. THAT generation that saw that would not pass before His coming again.

 

[jasoncran]

For the comment Christ made about "this generation would not pass" he was referring to the generation that saw what he had described, the budding of the fig tree, the rebirth of Israel as a nation. THAT generation that saw that would not pass before His coming again.

when did that generation start? and uh if its my granny age then he must come by at the latest 2030. and if you read that fig tree doesnt represent isreal.

 

[reba]

I just can't help but think Jesus knew/knows the difference between this and that....

 

[Gazelle]

Book of Mark NASB

13:28
"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.

(Greek) Apo de thv sukhv maqete (5628) thn parabolhn; otan hdh o kladov authv apalov genhtai (5638) kai ekfuh| (5725) ta fulla, ginwskete (5719) oti egguv to qerov estin. (5748)

13:29
"Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

(Greek) outwv kai umeiv, otan idhte (5632) tauta ginomena, (5740) ginwskete (5720) oti egguv estin (5748) epi quraiv

Strong's notations so you can read for yourself. ;)

 

[Gazelle]

when did that generation start? and uh if its my granny age then he must come by at the latest 2030. and if you read that fig tree doesnt represent isreal.

Many consider the date to be 1948, when Israel became a nation; some use references to say that Israel wasn't blooming, so to speak, until they regained control of Jerusalem, which was 1967.

 

[jasoncran]

Many consider the date to be 1948, when Israel became a nation; some use references to say that Israel wasn't blooming, so to speak, until they regained control of Jerusalem, which was 1967.

isreal has never had full control but once of jerusalem. guess what would happen if they built the temple today on that dome of the rock. the other side of the wailing wall is the muslim side and no westerners are allowed.

besides that fig tree is compared to knowing the seasons. for when see these signs and its like the fig tree that bears fruit which tells you summer is nigh.

any time a fig tree is used its for judgment and the reason are given.

jugdment of isreal is given in matthew 24 and funny isnt it, it was the events of ad 70 that he described, for the most part., unless you think that we will have to worry about sabatth day travel. are we jews?

and its when you see the olive trees that theres a promise of peace and restoration.

 

[reba]

in the book of Mathew chapter 10.23 Jesus says they would not have preached to all the cities of Israel before the son of man would come.


and in Mathew 24. 34 Mark 13 .30 which looked like they were both copied from the same early manuscript.

Jesus says, all he was out lining regarding the signs of the times that this generation would not pass till all these things had been done, again including his return. ?

was Jesus implying his ressurection,? pentecost? and the out pouring of the Holy spirit, ?

any explanation as to what was really being said here, ? translation error ?

johnny

Johnny you know there are many different views of when Christ will return... Some folks base their theology on what the nation of Israel is doing or has done. They have some scripture backing to think in that fashion.

Some folks with other scripture backing say that he already came. 70 ad...

The list can go on for a while....

My view. When He was speaking to the generation of folks He walked earth with that was 'this generation'. When the destruction of Jerusalem hit in 70 ad the temple was leveled. The way of Temple life/worship was ended.. Temple life was thee way of life for those folks...


Now we are post 70 AD. Some folks say 'Jesus is building his kingdom'. Some use the words 'He is building His church' others may say 'He is preparing His bride'. Some slightly different phrases but to the same basic meaning. IMO These all point to His return. For me what was written in Matt was for the 70 AD destruction. not Pentecost, resurrection nor the out pouring... He is yet to return...

Jesus makes a few statements IMO to this topic in John.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[reba]

Once again.. I was 9 years old in 55 i can remember His return was to happen because it was 7 years after 1948. Opps! Well how silly we were a generation is 40 years 1988 lots of opps... this list goes on ....

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.


This is the promise to Abraham

Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:


A simple quick look at a map and we can see the Israel of today is not what was promised to Abe.

Israel today is divided the Israelis do not have possession/control of the city of Jerusalem. Nor is the land mass what God gave to them way back.

Side note: As a democratic nation Israel deserves the support of the USA, as Kuwait did.

 

[jwoods4290]

Book of Mark NASB

13:28
"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.

(Greek) Apo de thv sukhv maqete (5628) thn parabolhn; otan hdh o kladov authv apalov genhtai (5638) kai ekfuh| (5725) ta fulla, ginwskete (5719) oti egguv to qerov estin. (5748)

13:29
"Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

(Greek) outwv kai umeiv, otan idhte (5632) tauta ginomena, (5740) ginwskete (5720) oti egguv estin (5748) epi quraiv

Strong's notations so you can read for yourself. ;)

That i understand and i do understand as well as no human being nor even jesus himself will know the day nor hour, but what kind of events are we TRUELY looking for? i mean i have my own opinions and kinda iffs about events and linking to the second coming but what kind of events in your opinion?

 

[Gazelle]

Kewl with me. Instead of replying here, I'll post some links of great prophecy ministers' sites and you can read what each say. What I find most interesting is that in years past they all tweaked a Scripture this way or that. Well, that is expected since they come from different belief backgrounds... anyway, what is interesting to me is that NOW they are all saying almost the same thing.

I refer to signs for the rapture, which I believe comes before the wrath of God in tribulation, and these are those who follow that belief as well. There are other signs that refer to the second coming of Christ, which I believe is at the end of the tribulation for the battle of Armageddon. If you're really interested, those sites will give you most of the verses, even from the OT such as Daniel, etc. You are blessed for studying Revelation too, of course.

Dr. Grant Jeffreys: http://www.grantjeffrey.com/intfra.htm

Dr. Jack Van Impe http://www.jvim.com/

Dr Perry Stone http://www.voe.org/

There are numerous verses in the OT that guide us as well. But here are some key NT verses I'm sure you've read.

Matthew 24:37 For just as the days of Noah were, so in this manner will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Matthew 24:3 Now while he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what is the sign of your coming and the end of the world?”

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole inhabited earth for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 Now the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, following deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, who have been seared in their own conscience with a red hot branding iron, who forbid people to marry and command them to abstain from food which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

2 Peter 3:3 Know this first of all, that in the last days scoffers will come with their scoffing, conducting themselves according to their own evil desires

Luke 21:11 And there will be great earthquakes and from place to place famines and pestilences, and there will be frightful events and great signs from heaven.

Luke 21:25 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and there will be upon the earth anguish of the nations in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and rolling waves,

Matthew 24:8 But all these things are the beginning of birth pains.


BTW leading up to the verses your were discussing previously, ahead of the "signs" of His coming he refers to things about the generation that was existing then, that would betray and deny and reject Him (and who ended up cruxifying Him.)

 

[jasoncran]

i know that but in context that fig cant be isreal. one must look for another type of sign or verse on isreal.

matthew 24 aint it.

modern isreal, is primarily a jewish state and not an isreali. do i have to inform you the diference? i am jew, a jew is an isrealite but not all isrealites are jews.

i see the reason for isreal being used and her existance today a bit different in that we dont know when the sanhedrin will proclaim the messiah that we know. and yes the sanhedrin are back.

 

[jasoncran]

i will have to debunk that conclusion of the birth pains. right. you would agree that if the earthquakes got real bad and almost global then there couldnt be a drop in intensity right.

and also you would agree with me if i post was the usgs says on quakes since 1948 and look for them to increase. but what if they didnt increase they stayed about the same(on average).

 

[Gazelle]

I have researched the number and intensity of earthquakes and other natural disasters and events.... and would encourage you to do the same. Fascinating.

If you cannot accept the fig tree representing the house of Israel, then do the math from Daniel. There are two ways to come from the prophecy in Daniel, given to Nebuchadnezzar...and they all end up in our day today... depending upon the length of your generation... which is ambiguous at best... but to average it, the numbers can easily (both ways) come up to 2012.

That the goal for the signing of the peace treaty, the rhetoric by the Palestinians demanding their own State, and the agreement to agree etc etc with the months of Sept and Dec 2012 being written... :dunno: But it's good enough for me. Christ's coming, for me, is soon.

 

[jasoncran]

I have researched the number and intensity of earthquakes and other natural disasters and events.... and would encourage you to do the same. Fascinating.

If you cannot accept the fig tree, then do the math from Daniel. There are two ways to come from the prophecy in Daniel, given to Nebuchadnezzar...and they all end up in our day today... depending upon the length of your generation... which is ambiguous at best... but to average it, the numbers can easily (both ways) come up to 2012.

That the goal for the signing of the peace treaty, the rhetoric by the Palestinians demanding their own State, and the agreement to agree etc etc with the months of Sept and Dec 2012 being written... :dunno: But it's good enough for me. Christ's coming, for me, is soon.

i have and will post and i know of the said time and agian the week was done. if you take the idea of jacobs trouble has yet to occur then can you elaborate on why in revalation saints are brought in during the vial judgments?

and also why would god make it so obvious the time would be to the year. if one takes it your way then you have a time limit of when he comes back.

and here on the quakes.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives/year/mag8/magnitude8_1900_mag.php




they measured and track all above 8 and they arent increasing at all.

now then if you are that interested in daniel then lets use some history two show and see if the ad 70 event covered isreal in that prophecy.

for the record i am not bought on all revalation fully done in ad 70 but matthew 24 mostly speaks of ad 70 and not later.

 

[reba]

<abbr title="Question">Q</abbr>: Why are we having so many earthquakes? Has earthquake activity been increasing? Does this mean a big one is going to hit? OR We haven't had any earthquakes in a long time; does this mean that the pressure is building up?

<abbr title="Answer">A</abbr>: Although it may seem that we are having more earthquakes, earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or greater have remained fairly constant throughout this century and, according to our records, have actually seemed to decrease in recent years.

There are several reasons for the perception that the number of earthquakes, in general, and particularly destructive earthquakes is increasing.

1) A partial explanation may lie in the fact that in the last twenty years, we have definitely had an increase in the number of earthquakes we have been able to locate each year. This is because of the tremendous increase in the number of seismograph stations in the world and the many improvements in global communications.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/faq/?categoryID=6&faqID=110


Side note: We lived in earthquake country for 20 years it was a kick to be part of the folks who reported to (Unofficially ) USGS

 

[Gazelle]

Please do a thorough study. Remember, that the global warming and statistics generally easily available are part of the world government push, very political (yet quite prophetical as well.) It's not real.

I would certainly urge you to investigate the earthquake activity and magnitudes of this year alone!

Remember, birth pains increase slowly... and are not so intense, and then they increase in frequency and intensity, with less and less time between...

 

[reba]

Is it possible that what Christ is saying is that there is no signs. Like the trees will bud as normal... Sorta like here in Luke about Noah..

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Just normal every day living going on? This is a question i have asked often something i ponder a bit.

 

[jasoncran]

Please do a thorough study. Remember, that the global warming and statistics generally easily available are part of the world government push, very political (yet quite prophetical as well.) It's not real.

I would certainly urge you to investigate the earthquake activity and magnitudes of this year alone!

Remember, birth pains increase slowly... and are not so intense, and then they increase in frequency and intensity, with less and less time between...

its been 40 years, and why would men lie? we build buildings based on these facts! hello

and we have had greater quakes in days of paul and also ere isreal.

let see

Number of Earthquakes Worldwide for 2000 - 2011
Located by the US Geological Survey National Earthquake Information Center
<table class="stats" border="0" cellSpacing="0" cellPadding="0"><thead><tr><th scope="col">Magnitude</th><th scope="col">2000</th><th scope="col">2001</th><th scope="col">2002</th><th scope="col">2003</th><th scope="col">2004</th><th scope="col">2005</th><th scope="col">2006</th><th scope="col">2007</th><th scope="col">2008</th><th scope="col">2009</th><th scope="col">2010</th><th scope="col">2011</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr><th scope="row">8.0 to 9.9</th><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>2</td><td>1</td><td>2</td><td>4</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td>1</td></tr><tr><th scope="row">7.0 to 7.9</th><td>14</td><td>15</td><td>13</td><td>14</td><td>14</td><td>10</td><td>9</td><td>14</td><td>12</td><td>16</td><td>22</td><td>18</td></tr><tr><th scope="row">6.0 to 6.9</th><td>146</td><td>121</td><td>127</td><td>140</td><td>141</td><td>140</td><td>142</td><td>178</td><td>168</td><td>144</td><td>150</td><td>164</td></tr><tr><th scope="row">5.0 to 5.9</th><td>1344</td><td>1224</td><td>1201</td><td>1203</td><td>1515</td><td>1693</td><td>1712</td><td>2074</td><td>1768</td><td>1896</td><td>1983</td><td>1992</td></tr><tr><th scope="row">4.0 to 4.9</th><td>8008</td><td>7991</td><td>8541</td><td>8462</td><td>10888</td><td>13917</td><td>12838</td><td>12078</td><td>12291</td><td>6805</td><td>10383</td><td>11032</td></tr><tr><th scope="row">3.0 to 3.9</th><td>4827</td><td>6266</td><td>7068</td><td>7624</td><td>7932</td><td>9191</td><td>9990</td><td>9889</td><td>11735</td><td>2905</td><td>4321</td><td>2097</td></tr><tr><th scope="row">2.0 to 2.9</th><td>3765</td><td>4164</td><td>6419</td><td>7727</td><td>6316</td><td>4636</td><td>4027</td><td>3597</td><td>3860</td><td>3014</td><td>4623</td><td>2770</td></tr><tr><th scope="row">1.0 to 1.9</th><td>1026</td><td>944</td><td>1137</td><td>2506</td><td>1344</td><td>26</td><td>18</td><td>42</td><td>21</td><td>26</td><td>39</td><td>27</td></tr><tr><th scope="row">0.1 to 0.9</th><td>5</td><td>1</td><td>10</td><td>134</td><td>103</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>2</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>0</td><td>1</td></tr><tr><th scope="row">No Magnitude</th><td>3120</td><td>2807</td><td>2938</td><td>3608</td><td>2939</td><td>864</td><td>828</td><td>1807</td><td>1922</td><td>17</td><td>24</td><td>18</td></tr><tr class="totals"><th scope="row">Total</th><td> 22256</td><td>23534</td><td>27454</td><td>31419</td><td>31194</td><td>30478</td><td>29568</td><td>29685</td><td>31777</td><td>*14825</td><td>*21546</td><td>*18120</td></tr><tr><th scope="row">Estimated
Deaths</th><td>231</td><td>21357</td><td>1685</td><td>33819</td><td>228802</td><td>88003</td><td>6605</td><td>712</td><td>88011</td><td>1790</td><td>320129</td><td>21220</td></tr></tbody></table>Starting in January 2009, the USGS National Earthquake Information Center no longer locates earthquakes smaller than magnitude 4.5 outside the United States, unless we receive specific information that the earthquake was felt or caused damage.
The values in the tables for the most recent years may fluctuate due to magnitude updates during the review process

negative this site says NO, there has been no increase.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives/year/eqstats.php

and i dont buy the nwo thing either. i am skeptic on that. i want to see the justification for the ac. show me where its said he must be in the seven year trib? and i have some doubts on the ac but not enough at present to negate it totally.

 

[jasoncran]

keep in mind reba lives in earthquake zone.surely she would take note.

and also the way that verse says in the days of noah so shall the son of mans return be is quite the likiest way he will come. signs while ment to be noticed kinda lets you know. there was no warning given to the sinners that died in the flood. save noah building the arc for one hundred years and then he getting in it.

i also have a book called after the rapture and it makes the case for the rapture and heavily reasearched so dont assume that i am not checking this stuff.

and what prophecies?the rise and fall of the ac is quite vague.