Differing opinions regarding salvation, Mary, and the word "save. Are there?

[francisdesales]

I will do my best to be charitable. I will do my best understand Vatican I. Do you understand the false implications of such outlandish implications of Pius IX?

Have you read the entire document and understand the historical context, or are you like most, who reads one line ripped out of context and proclaims "AH HAH, I KNEW IT...

What about the Old Catholics.

What about them?

You haven't convinced me that the Catholic Church hasn't changed drastically since the first 1.054 years.

That's funny, coming from a follower of the Orthodox way, which abhors ANY change.

Papal infallibility didn't develop as a doctrine until 1,870 years AFTER Christ.

I gave you a HUGE example of it. Robber council of Ephesus. But you REFUSE to even address it. Why is that Scott? Does the house of cards come crashing down? We don't need to avoid the truth. The Truth will set us free. Explore the truth and it will take you right here. Everything that my separated brothers have tried to throw at me, there is an answer. There is no need to fear the truth. And the truth is that you are incorrect.

There can be no vicar of Christ on earth but the Holy Spirit (John 16:13),

That verse doesn't say that.

no "other Paraclete" but God Himself.

That verse doesn't say that, either.

The papal claims go way too far for one man. Orthodoxy has nothing like a pope, to its credit. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

LOL! On the first, you distrust the words of Jesus Christ, who gave Peter the keys, to no one else. The "Papal claims" is the claims of the CHURCH, not of the Pope, like some usurper we both know. On the second, you clearly don't know your history. Orthodoxy is not immune to the sins of men. You should read about the garbage that took place between the See of Constantinople (which was not TRULY an apostolic see, they just made it up) and the See of Antioch and Alexandria.

Regards

 

[Jake]

The ONLY posts I have read of his are; claiming Mary was a virgin when she died, infants should be baptized, he uses some orthodox writings which include names of Saints and he insists on using anything else but the Bible to prove his doctrine. Other than that, not sure, but those sounds like Catholic doctrine.

***I've read his threads and besides not being a Catholic, I have no idea what he is.

Don't be fooled, Whitney, you are correct in your initial assessment. They are the same and one, they have perverted the Word of God and teach evil practices not sanctioned by Him. Beware of them.

At this point, it does not matter if they disagree on trivial matters, they have completely gone away from the Pure Word of God, they continue to be blinded from the Truth.

Keep in the Word!

 

[francisdesales]

Don't be fooled, Whitney, you are correct in your initial assessment. They are the same and one, they have perverted the Word of God and teach evil practices not sanctioned by Him. Beware of them.

At this point, it does not matter if they disagree on trivial matters, they have completely gone away from the Pure Word of God, they continue to be blinded from the Truth.

Keep in the Word!

Yea, I thought you had no answer to my reply. When all else fails, ignore logic and go back to emotional outbursts... :rant

Hey, if it makes you feel holy, whatever...

 

[Dennyh]

I understand I am a bit late to the party here, but as I was reading the early part of this thread (before it turned into a general Catholic/Eastern Orthodox VS. Protestant thread) the verse that came to my mind was:

Matt 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

I would like to objectively ask how this verse fits into the Catholic/Orthodox view of Mary?
I always understood it to mean that God sees all Believers as one group and all unbelievers as another group.

 

[Jake]

Yea, I thought you had no answer to my reply. When all else fails, ignore logic and go back to emotional outbursts... :rant

Hey, if it makes you feel holy, whatever...

Your reply to Whitney was a lie and you know it.

 

[francisdesales]

Your reply to Whitney was a lie and you know it.

Your emotions are getting away from you again.

Maybe you should do a time out until you settle down. THEN, hit the books and do some reading. Come back and we can then discuss things more logically, rather than your name calling and feable accusations. I laid out my argument and all you have to say is "it's a lie".

 

[francisdesales]

I understand I am a bit late to the party here, but as I was reading the early part of this thread (before it turned into a general Catholic/Eastern Orthodox VS. Protestant thread) the verse that came to my mind was:

Matt 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

I would like to objectively ask how this verse fits into the Catholic/Orthodox view of Mary?
I always understood it to mean that God sees all Believers as one group and all unbelievers as another group.

We take literally that the Church is the Body of Christ. Jesus is really here, part of us, in what we do as we continue His mission. Many of my separated brothers tend to separate Jesus from His Body, thus, the "Jesus vs the Church" posts that have totally forgotten that the MOST PROLIFIC statement made by Paul in his writings is that link between Jesus and His Body, the Church (IN HIM...)

Now, that means Mary is my mother, doesn't it?

Regards

 

[Jake]

Your emotions are getting away from you again.

Maybe you should do a time out until you settle down. THEN, hit the books and do some reading. Come back and we can then discuss things more logically, rather than your name calling and feable accusations. I laid out my argument and all you have to say is "it's a lie".

Emotions have nothing to do with it, what you wrote is a lie and deserves nothing more than to be pointed out so the rest can know it for what it is.

 

[francisdesales]

Emotions have nothing to do with it, what you wrote is a lie and deserves nothing more than to be pointed out so the rest can know it for what it is.

No, I accurately reflected that your response was no response, since it was just smoke and mirrors and name calling. You did NOT address my question on sola scriptura, which says that "The Bible is the sole source of Christian doctrine".

Even if we somehow allow for your definition of inspiration, (which I don't) it doesn't address what sola scriptura even IS. That only speaks on the inspiration of the Bible, the source. But it doesn't say anything about being the ONLY SOURCE we are to follow. THe Bible ITSELF gives other sources of divine guidance to Christians, apostolic teachings that were orally given by the Church (which is the pillar and foundation of the truth). So you didn't answer the question, didn't respond to it.

It ended up being more emotional outbursts than logical discussion.

 

[Jake]

No, I accurately reflected that your response was no response, since it was just smoke and mirrors and name calling. You did NOT address my question on sola scriptura, which says that "The Bible is the sole source of Christian doctrine".

Even if we somehow allow for your definition of inspiration, (which I don't) it doesn't address what sola scriptura even IS. That only speaks on the inspiration of the Bible, the source. But it doesn't say anything about being the ONLY SOURCE we are to follow. THe Bible ITSELF gives other sources of divine guidance to Christians, apostolic teachings that were orally given by the Church (which is the pillar and foundation of the truth). So you didn't answer the question, didn't respond to it.

It ended up being more emotional outbursts than logical discussion.

I did not call you any names, we have already derailed one thread, is it necessary to repeat the same offense here?

 

[francisdesales]

I did not call you any names, we have already derailed one thread, is it necessary to repeat the same offense here?

Then you should stop typing here.

 

[Hardcastle]

Many of my separated brothers tend to separate Jesus from His Body, thus, the "Jesus vs the Church" posts that have totally forgotten that the MOST PROLIFIC statement made by Paul in his writings is that link between Jesus and His Body, the Church (IN HIM...)

You may be confused - it is 'Scripture vs. the RCC'. The RCC repeatedly goes beyond what is written and as such cannot be the body of Christ. The Lord's church remains true to God's word.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church." ~ John Wesley​

The RCC has been judged by Scripture and that organization has been found wanting.

 

[francisdesales]

You may be confused - it is 'Scripture vs. the RCC'.

You have already proven your mettle and worth, Hardcastle. People can see I have asked over and over again to back up your invention, but you chose not to.

Once a person lies and fails to repent, they aren't worth listening to...

 

[Jake]

You have already proven your mettle and worth, Hardcastle. People can see I have asked over and over again to back up your invention, but you chose not to.

Once a person lies and fails to repent, they aren't worth listening to...

The only thing I'm seeing here, is your failure to prove your point, Francis.

 

[francisdesales]

The only thing I'm seeing here, is your failure to prove your point, Francis.

Don't blame me for your inability to read. The evidence was posted TWICE on the baptism thread.

 

[Jake]

deleted own post.