Difficult wives

[Jethro Bodine]

You'll have to provide some support for the 'lust for power and wealth' theory.

I myself was 1 Kings and Deut. Solomon did many things that God told him not to do. He was not suppose buy war vehicles, Chariots and horses, etc. and he was not suppose to marry women from other nations, pagans. He did not obey God. He became very wealthy dealing with pagan nations.
You'll have to look up the scripture if your interested. I don't want to go off topic. My point was his disobedience is what caused his problems.


I honestly don't think the Bible says that was his motivation. But if you can show me it'll become gospel truth for me from now on.

And I'm confident you can't show where the Bible says his observations about quarrelsome wives was in fact caused by him. You'll just have to go on faith on this one...not all abuse is caused by what we do (this is exactly what the abuser wants the abused to think!). Surely that fits into your thinking somewhere(?)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And no honest Christian would argue with you (remember this is the world we're talking about here, lol). But were they 'difficult'? You know, irrational, unreasonable, combative, unfair, contentious, provocative...

...hmmmm Don't forget controlling, abusive, impatient, nagging....

I was purposely not using the 'A' word.

One of the men I dated in my mid-30's left his wife of eight years when she was pregnant with their 6th child because she was being "difficult"... I call that pretty irrational and unreasonable right there. To leave your pregnant wife and children because of her being "difficult" when she had been made to be perpetually pregnant for eight years (he didn't believe in birth control, he told me this himself) is very unfair.

By a strange coincidence in life, that man that I dated who left his pregnant wife... it just so happens that Steve actually dated his wife before he met me. And Steve said that the guy had been very physically abusive towards her and the kids. It didn't surprise me, because he often expressed himself in that way, slamming his fist down on a table when someone was disagreeing with him during a Bible Study (I met this guy at a single's group through a church), "rough housing"... just the impression he gave off of being very tightly wound and could be set off at any moment. I only dated him three times and left the group not long after wards

And yes, Jethro, men can be very, very provocative. Frankly, it was one of the worst things we had to put up with my dad with.... He would just get into these moods where he was spoiling for a fight and kept provoking someone, anyone, until one happened...

The guy I was engaged to back in my late 20's was like that.

I loved that man, I truly did. And, I was a fairly beaten down kind of person back then because I was in the very long healing process of having lived with being sexually abused. So, I put up with a lot from him and would have married him (and been miserable in life, I'm sure). He was constantly belittling me, putting me down in front of others, "teasing me" (and if I said anything about that, I was accused of having no sense of humor), "correcting" me... interrupting me when I was saying something to him or anyone else if I had made a grammatical slip. He once said to his best friend "She's not as dumb as she sounds...most of the time." I put up with that because this was the way my dad interacted with my mom and like I say, I wasn't in a very healthy place. I made the same mistake I see being made here... thinking all of "them" are like that.

Folks, does this cynicism make my butt look big?

;) Somewhat...

But seriously, just as all men are not like my ex-fiance, or that guy with 6 kids, or even my dad (who I made peace with and had a very close relationship for the last 20 years of his life)...all women are not irrational, unreasonable, combative, unfair, contentious, and provocative.

As we leave off our 20's and move through our 30's, 40's, 50's,etc... we see that most people in life do get married. And, the older one gets, the more one meets up with people who aren't married because they are like this...both men and women.

When people like this do get married and go on to make their spouse's and children's lives a living hell, usually it's because the person who married them had some kind of blinders on... like I did with my first fiance. Blinders made of growing up with the kind of father I did and having extremely low self esteem. Or, sometimes people will marry people like this with the idea of changing them. They figure once they are married, they'll be able to help the other person over being irrational, controlling, provocative...whatever other fault there is. Only change like that never comes from without, it can only come from within, from the Spirit working and changing one.

But, it's also amazing that, when one can get those blinders off and break cycles and get to the point of realizing that all women are not like that and all men are not like that... that's when someone suitable tends to come in.

I had stopped dating for a couple of years, mainly because I just didn't know any single guy who wasn't a mess... and then there was the guy who totally messed up the copy machine and I had to help him get the thing working right again.

And, he wasn't provocative, or irrational, or combative, or controlling, or at least not really much of any of these faults and if, in rare moments of anger, he did get that way, he was always very apologetic about it and knocked it off...

So, there were good guys out there... and I had been working at the same company with one of them all the while. We just hadn't crossed paths yet.

And when we did cross paths... well the odds for others looking for a good person without a lot of issues got worse because we married each other.

We all know that women haven't cornered the market on this kind of behavior, but it is definitely a special struggle for women. No woman needs to get defensive about that unless they want to somehow excuse the behavior in their own lives. The answer, like all other struggles with the flesh, in both men and women, is to learn the ways of God and grow out of those old ways, trusting God to take of that which we think we are remedying by acting the way we do. (This is why one should NEVER marry an unbeliever...think about it).

For the sake of this thread, this is about 'difficult' women, and all that means. IMO, it stems back to the curse on women at the fall...their desire for their husbands authority. That desire being born out of fear. The kind of fear Peter talks about and how women should not be fearful but instead submit to their husbands, trusting God with whatever fear it is they think they are alleviating by controlling people and situations by being 'difficult'.

We all have to deal with the temptation to control things and people in authority over us through our natural and ungodly traits, the traits of the flesh (anger, wrath, unforgiveness, hatred, etc...). It just happens to be a special temptation for women. Speaking in general. No need for any woman to get on the defensive. It's just an observable fact. Supported by scripture.

 

[farouk]

I was purposely not using the 'A' word.

One of the men I dated in my mid-30's left his wife of eight years when she was pregnant with their 6th child because she was being "difficult"... I call that pretty irrational and unreasonable right there. To leave your pregnant wife and children because of her being "difficult" when she had been made to be perpetually pregnant for eight years (he didn't believe in birth control, he told me this himself) is very unfair.

By a strange coincidence in life, that man that I dated who left his pregnant wife... it just so happens that Steve actually dated his wife before he met me. And Steve said that the guy had been very physically abusive towards her and the kids. It didn't surprise me, because he often expressed himself in that way, slamming his fist down on a table when someone was disagreeing with him during a Bible Study (I met this guy at a single's group through a church), "rough housing"... just the impression he gave off of being very tightly wound and could be set off at any moment. I only dated him three times and left the group not long after wards

And yes, Jethro, men can be very, very provocative. Frankly, it was one of the worst things we had to put up with my dad with.... He would just get into these moods where he was spoiling for a fight and kept provoking someone, anyone, until one happened...

The guy I was engaged to back in my late 20's was like that.

I loved that man, I truly did. And, I was a fairly beaten down kind of person back then because I was in the very long healing process of having lived with being sexually abused. So, I put up with a lot from him and would have married him (and been miserable in life, I'm sure). He was constantly belittling me, putting me down in front of others, "teasing me" (and if I said anything about that, I was accused of having no sense of humor), "correcting" me... interrupting me when I was saying something to him or anyone else if I had made a grammatical slip. He once said to his best friend "She's not as dumb as she sounds...most of the time." I put up with that because this was the way my dad interacted with my mom and like I say, I wasn't in a very healthy place. I made the same mistake I see being made here... thinking all of "them" are like that.

Folks, does this cynicism make my butt look big?

;) Somewhat...

But seriously, just as all men are not like my ex-fiance, or that guy with 6 kids, or even my dad (who I made peace with and had a very close relationship for the last 20 years of his life)...all women are not irrational, unreasonable, combative, unfair, contentious, and provocative.

As we leave off our 20's and move through our 30's, 40's, 50's,etc... we see that most people in life do get married. And, the older one gets, the more one meets up with people who aren't married because they are like this...both men and women.

When people like this do get married and go on to make their spouse's and children's lives a living hell, usually it's because the person who married them had some kind of blinders on... like I did with my first fiance. Blinders made of growing up with the kind of father I did and having extremely low self esteem. Or, sometimes people will marry people like this with the idea of changing them. They figure once they are married, they'll be able to help the other person over being irrational, controlling, provocative...whatever other fault there is. Only change like that never comes from without, it can only come from within, from the Spirit working and changing one.

But, it's also amazing that, when one can get those blinders off and break cycles and get to the point of realizing that all women are not like that and all men are not like that... that's when someone suitable tends to come in.

I had stopped dating for a couple of years, mainly because I just didn't know any single guy who wasn't a mess... and then there was the guy who totally messed up the copy machine and I had to help him get the thing working right again.

And, he wasn't provocative, or irrational, or combative, or controlling, or at least not really much of any of these faults and if, in rare moments of anger, he did get that way, he was always very apologetic about it and knocked it off...

So, there were good guys out there... and I had been working at the same company with one of them all the while. We just hadn't crossed paths yet.

And when we did cross paths... well the odds for others looking for a good person without a lot of issues got worse because we married each other.

We all know that women haven't cornered the market on this kind of behavior, but it is definitely a special struggle for women. No woman needs to get defensive about that unless they want to somehow excuse the behavior in their own lives. The answer, like all other struggles with the flesh, in both men and women, is to learn the ways of God and grow out of those old ways, trusting God to take of that which we think we are remedying by acting the way we do. (This is why one should NEVER marry an unbeliever...think about it).

For the sake of this thread, this is about 'difficult' women, and all that means. IMO, it stems back to the curse on women at the fall...their desire for their husbands authority. That desire being born out of fear. The kind of fear Peter talks about and how women should not be fearful but instead submit to their husbands, trusting God with whatever fear it is they think they are alleviating by controlling people and situations by being 'difficult'.

We all have to deal with the temptation to control things and people in authority over us through our natural and ungodly traits, the traits of the flesh (anger, wrath, unforgiveness, hatred, etc...). It just happens to be a special temptation for women. Speaking in general. No need for any woman to get on the defensive. It's just an observable fact. Supported by scripture.

[MENTION=88699]Jethro Bodine[/MENTION]:

Whereas the male macho urge is somehow a trivial, secondary matter in comparison?

Blessings.

 

[Pizzaguy]

And I'm confident you can't show where the Bible says his observations about quarrelsome wives was in fact caused by him. You'll just have to go on faith on this one...not all abuse is caused by what we do (this is exactly what the abuser wants the abused to think!). Surely that fits into your thinking somewhere(?)

I have a friend who thinks that MY problem with the last two women were because I didn't put my foot down and tell them clearly how to act! Two women in their 50's and they need me to TELL them what I expect?

That seems as much nonsense as it "being all men's fault".

Think I'll call Ashley (the 23 year old) and see if she wants to go to dinner this afternoon...

 

[Deborah13]

...not all abuse is caused by what we do (this is exactly what the abuser wants the abused to think!). Surely that fits into your thinking somewhere(?)

I guess, I was looking at the root of the problem.
If one were to get involved with an abuser when God had clearly told them not to be involved with them, that would be the root of the problem.
Solomon's abuse from his wives towards him, was about his wives, not all women. Just his experience with women. So to use Solomon's words to justify that women are whatever is just plain phoee...(sp?) IMO.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

@Jethro Bodine :

Whereas the male macho urge is somehow a trivial, secondary matter in comparison?

Blessings.

I don't know, is it? Start a thread about it.

It's interesting to note that t______ are a typical male expression of that problem.

 

[farouk]

Whereas the male macho urge is somehow a trivial, secondary matter in comparison?

Blessings.

I dont' know, is it? Start a thread about it.

It's interesting to note that t______ are a typical male expression of that problem.[/QUOTE]
[MENTION=88699]Jethro Bodine[/MENTION]:

I was responding to an impression.

What do you mean by 't______' ? (Sorry if I seem half asleep.)

Blessings.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Not all women Deb, but some. I've met two recently like what is described in the text. And these are not women of power or fame - and they are both CHURCH ATTENDING, Bible reading Christians, just the very women scripture admonishes me to date. I admit that MANY men are dreadful. In fact, that is part of my observation: If men like that can stay married, and many DO - how is it by treating women kindly and respectfully - how is it, I don't get that in return?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...not all abuse is caused by what we do (this is exactly what the abuser wants the abused to think!). Surely that fits into your thinking somewhere(?)

I guess, I was looking at the root of the problem.
If one were to get involved with an abuser when God had clearly told them not to be involved with them, that would be the root of the problem.
Solomon's abuse from his wives towards him, was about his wives, not all women. Just his experience with women. So to use Solomon's words to justify that women are whatever is just plain phoee...(sp?) IMO.

Surely you have seen how careful I've been to show I do not think ALL women are like this? Note how I told Pizza that there is probably someone out there for him.

 

[farouk]

Not all women Deb, but some. I've met two recently like what is described in the text. And these are not women of power or fame - and they are both CHURCH ATTENDING, Bible reading Christians, just the very women scripture admonishes me to date. I admit that MANY men are dreadful. In fact, that is part of my observation: If men like that can stay married, and many DO - how is it by treating women kindly and respectfully - how is it, I don't get that in return?

Do it because it's the right thing to do; not because of what you might get out of it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Whereas the male macho urge is somehow a trivial, secondary matter in comparison?

Blessings.

I dont' know, is it? Start a thread about it.

It's interesting to note that t______ are a typical male expression of that problem.

[MENTION=88699]Jethro Bodine[/MENTION]:

I was responding to an impression.

What do you mean by 't______' ? (Sorry if I seem half asleep.)

Blessings.
[/QUOTE]
tattoos.

I blanked it out so it won't become a point of discussion in this thread. Just pointing out something that would be of interest to you particularly.

No need to talk about it, though.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Not all women Deb, but some. I've met two recently like what is described in the text. And these are not women of power or fame - and they are both CHURCH ATTENDING, Bible reading Christians, just the very women scripture admonishes me to date. I admit that MANY men are dreadful. In fact, that is part of my observation: If men like that can stay married, and many DO - how is it by treating women kindly and respectfully - how is it, I don't get that in return?

Do it because it's the right thing to do; not because of what you might get out of it.

Agreed.

But it does not answer my question.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not all women Deb, but some. I've met two recently like what is described in the text. And these are not women of power or fame - and they are both CHURCH ATTENDING, Bible reading Christians, just the very women scripture admonishes me to date. I admit that MANY men are dreadful. In fact, that is part of my observation: If men like that can stay married, and many DO - how is it by treating women kindly and respectfully - how is it, I don't get that in return?

Do it because it's the right thing to do; not because of what you might get out of it.

I know you probably don't understand but that's like telling a POW to do it because it's the right thing to do, and not because of what you might get out of it. You just gotta be in those shoes to understand.

Not being mean, just helping you see.

Peace?

 

[farouk]

Whereas the male macho urge is somehow a trivial, secondary matter in comparison?

Blessings.

I dont' know, is it? Start a thread about it.

It's interesting to note that t______ are a typical male expression of that problem.

@Jethro Bodine :

I was responding to an impression.

What do you mean by 't______' ? (Sorry if I seem half asleep.)

Blessings.

tattoos.

I blanked it out so it won't become a point of discussion in this thread. Just pointing out something that would be of interest to you particularly.

No need to talk about it, though.

Oh so, a male problem, but not a female freedom...

But we won't get into that, I guess.

Blessings.

 

[Pizzaguy]

There is a reason for every verse in the Bible.

God commands that men LOVE their wives.
God commands that women respect their husbands.

I do NOT believe this means that only men are to love and only women are to respect - I think God is warning us to do that which each sex is weak at!

Again, my (secular, unbelieving) Dad demonstrated this to me every day of my whole life. Dad NEVER talked down to Mom, never said bad or even funny things about her when she wasn't around, etc.
And Mom, likewise, never had a bad thing to say about Dad to her friends, etc. Now TOGETHER, they did argue at times - but it was always between them and never carried over to their friends !

I have only recently realized the good example they both set for me....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

tattoos.

I blanked it out so it won't become a point of discussion in this thread. Just pointing out something that would be of interest to you particularly.

No need to talk about it, though.

Oh so, a male problem, but not a female freedom...

But we won't get into that, I guess.

Blessings.

Right, dont' go there. The problem it is for females was explained in your thread.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is a reason for every verse in the Bible.

God commands that men LOVE their wives.
God commands that women respect their husbands.

I do NOT believe this means that only men are to love and only women are to respect - I think God is warning us to do that which each sex is weak at!

Not only that, but because those are the main things that make marriage work. That is, a Biblical marriage--headship/ submission (for all that actually means, not what those who oppose it says it means).

 

[Deborah13]

...not all abuse is caused by what we do (this is exactly what the abuser wants the abused to think!). Surely that fits into your thinking somewhere(?)

I guess, I was looking at the root of the problem.
If one were to get involved with an abuser when God had clearly told them not to be involved with them, that would be the root of the problem.
Solomon's abuse from his wives towards him, was about his wives, not all women. Just his experience with women. So to use Solomon's words to justify that women are whatever is just plain phoee...(sp?) IMO.

Surely you have seen how careful I've been to show I do not think ALL women are like this? Note how I told Pizza that there is probably someone out there for him.

Jethro, I think I have gotten to know you well enough to know you would never imply or think such a thing.
I just think Solomon was crying over his own slipped milk.

 

[Deborah13]

Not all women Deb, but some. I've met two recently like what is described in the text. And these are not women of power or fame - and they are both CHURCH ATTENDING, Bible reading Christians, just the very women scripture admonishes me to date. I admit that MANY men are dreadful. In fact, that is part of my observation: If men like that can stay married, and many DO - how is it by treating women kindly and respectfully - how is it, I don't get that in return?

You know, I'm not sure. It seems that somehow abusive people sniff out the ones that are kind. It's like they just know they can get away with being awful and that person will not retaliate because they are kind, soft hearted. I'm glad you stood up for yourself. A bad relationship is worse than no relationship at all.
And sometimes, I'm not saying this is you, but sometimes very nice men will not ask out pretty women or very smart women because they think she will say no. She must already have her dance card full. That is not always the case.

 

[farouk]

tattoos.

I blanked it out so it won't become a point of discussion in this thread. Just pointing out something that would be of interest to you particularly.

No need to talk about it, though.

Oh so, a male problem, but not a female freedom...

But we won't get into that, I guess.

Blessings.

Right, dont' go there. The problem it is for females was explained in your thread.

@Jethro Bodine :

If I respond to your legalistic stricture against women not supposedly being allowed to get tattoos in any circumstanaces, you know the mods may declare me off topic.

If I don't respond, you have made an assertion, as if your assertion can't be qualified.

Blessings.