Discussions about christianity

[kkkrrr123]

In our Bible class we have been talking alot about the nature of Christianity and how we can best minister it to non-believers. Are you a believer? Why or why not?

 

[Danus]

Yes I am a believer, as of about the spring of 1998 in my early 20's. Before that I was not.

Why Am I a believer? Short answer, I needed God because I had given up trying to live Life my way since that was not working out.

Why was I not a believer before? I wanted to live life my way. Many people tried to bring me to Christ before and based on that I can only say that the best way to represent Christ to others is to model Christ, Make friends with unbelievers to the extent you can. Be available for others when needed or asked and not medal when it's not necessary. It's a fine line to be a friend to an unbeliever and know when your needed vs when your not, but it starts with getting to know them first.

 

[PouringRain]

My short answer: Because no matter how far I ran, God never stopped chasing me.

 

[Deavonreye]

Not a christian. WAS, though, for roughly 30 years.

Some people can be swayed by kindness and friendship. People like to fit in, . . . to follow the crowd, so some may be better influenced by a genuinely caring person.

What doesn't work, probably 99% of the time, is the street preacher telling people that they are going to hell unless they repent from their sins. College campuses, outside night clubs, etc. are common places, and most people will scoff or turn a deaf ear. They MAY think later about what was said, but threatening people with "hell" should never be a way to promote a belief system.

Just a couple of thoughts.

 

[Mike]

Not a christian. WAS, though, for roughly 30 years.

Some people can be swayed by kindness and friendship. People like to fit in, . . . to follow the crowd, so some may be better influenced by a genuinely caring person.

What doesn't work, probably 99% of the time, is the street preacher telling people that they are going to hell unless they repent from their sins. College campuses, outside night clubs, etc. are common places, and most people will scoff or turn a deaf ear. They MAY think later about what was said, but threatening people with "hell" should never be a way to promote a belief system.

Just a couple of thoughts.

It is not good for Christians, or the Body of Christ collectively, to preach condemnation and not include an equal share of the Good News, IMO. Anyone who spends their time with a person or out in public spouting off about the wrath of God and dwelling on that, is not presenting the fullness of the Gospel. People need to hear why they need a Savior, but they need to know about His Love just as much. I'm sorry if you hadn't.

2 Peter 3:15
"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect"

2 Timothy 2
"25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will."

 

[Deavonreye]

Oh, . . . no, I had heard all about this love. . . . .so, I'm up to speed.

 

[Danus]

Not a christian. WAS, though, for roughly 30 years.

Some people can be swayed by kindness and friendship. People like to fit in, . . . to follow the crowd, so some may be better influenced by a genuinely caring person.

What doesn't work, probably 99% of the time, is the street preacher telling people that they are going to hell unless they repent from their sins. College campuses, outside night clubs, etc. are common places, and most people will scoff or turn a deaf ear. They MAY think later about what was said, but threatening people with "hell" should never be a way to promote a belief system.

Just a couple of thoughts.

I'm in general agreement with this. But, I have to ask, Deavonreye....how is it that you could say you where a Christian for 30 years? What I mean is, what made you a Christian during those 30 years? What qualified you as Christian during that time vs now?

 

[Danus]

Yes I am a believer, as of about the spring of 1998 in my early 20's. Before that I was not.

Ooops Fat fingered my date NOT 1998....1992 (98 was when I meet my wife..Somehow I kind of equate the two events) :adore

 

[Deavonreye]

I'm in general agreement with this. But, I have to ask, Deavonreye....how is it that you could say you where a Christian for 30 years? What I mean is, what made you a Christian during those 30 years? What qualified you as Christian during that time vs now?

I sincerely and firmly believed the whole gospel message of Jesus as savior as was introduced to me and taught in church, accepting it into my heart, mind, and life.

Now, after fully investigating all the concepts, ethics, and moralities, . . . and after a bit of reexamining and looking at things openly, I can no longer claim it.

 

[Mike]

I sincerely and firmly believed the whole gospel message of Jesus as savior as was introduced to me and taught in church, accepting it into my heart, mind, and life.

Now, after fully investigating all the concepts, ethics, and moralities, . . . and after a bit of reexamining and looking at things openly, I can no longer claim it.

Is there any part of you that "misses" Jesus? I ask because one of the most touching things I've ever read was the final page of "A Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel. Lee's speaking to an ardent atheist who used to be a very influential evangelical Christian who had lost his faith. He doesn't go as far as finding it again by the end of the book, but there is a very powerful moment when he breaks down in tears and whispers, "I just miss Him so much."

I wonder if there's apart of you that misses knowing Him as you had known Him; just that feeling of having that Confidant.

 

[Deavonreye]

To be honest, . . . I have to suspect that quote from that "ardent atheist". To say, "I just miss him [Jesus] so much", just seems a very odd thing FOR an "ardent atheist" to say. I don't know the person, so can't speak to his real thoughts or feelings. . . . it just sounds odd to me. And I'm not even an atheist.

As I thought about your question, I have to say that I don't have those feelings, as the man discussed in Strobel's book.

 

[coffeeelover]

The words and actions attributed to Jesus point to the perfection of the human race.

I think believing in Jesus has been a net benefit to the human race so far.

I personally don't think Jesus is God.

I believe there is a God, but what it is or wants, or if it wants anything at all I have no idea.

 

[Mike]

To be honest, . . . I have to suspect that quote from that "ardent atheist". To say, "I just miss him [Jesus] so much", just seems a very odd thing FOR an "ardent atheist" to say. I don't know the person, so can't speak to his real thoughts or feelings. . . . it just sounds odd to me. And I'm not even an atheist.

As I thought about your question, I have to say that I don't have those feelings, as the man discussed in Strobel's book.

I had to check the book again. In case you're ever curious just to find out why he would say something like that, it's in the opening chapter. Charles Templeton was his name. He was a mentor, I believe, for Billy Graham and had a tremendous ministry. In refreshing myself with the story, he's not an atheist. He's a man who became so disillusioned with all the death and misery around him, he simply swore off God. He got angry with Him. In having a moment of honesty and muttering those words, he seemed to be looking back to a time in his life when he felt so close to the Lord, his relationship with Him was very personal. In a secular parallel, I suppose it might be similar to someone who divorces from his wife and dismisses her from his life. Although he feels the relationship can never be restored, he looks back with melancholy at the years he spent as one with her.

I guess that's what I was getting at with you. You said you had accepted Him into your heart and your life. Can you look back at those times in retrospect and say that you once had deep feelings for Christ? And if you did, is there any part of you that misses the feeling of being Loved unconditionally? Maybe it never got that real or that deep for you.

To be honest, I've never been a big fan of the "Case for..." series. It was my perception that Strobel never asked the tough questions of Christians and didn't spend a legitimate amount of time interviewing non-Christians. The premise is that he was an atheistic journalist that was seeking evidence of Christ, so on that note, I suppose it would make sense that he would seek input more from Christians. But in publishing the books from the perspective of a current Christian, it made it less persuasive (trying to put myself in the place of a non-believer). He didn't come off as a skeptic with hard-hitting follow-up questions. I read them as a believer, so I was interested in what the people he interviewed had to say; their thoughts.

A much more compelling book in giving evidence to Jesus is "The Evidence Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell. He was much more thorough and hard hitting, IMO.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

No, I'm not a believer.

My main reasons can be easily laid out. I have a longer story, but this is the gist of it.

From as far back as I can remember, until I turned 17/18ish I believe to be a Christian and went to several different churches and youth groups. From them I learned about "specific" passages and how Jesus was a loving god that we had to go through.

I had several questions that I couldn't get answers to, or ones I thought I had the answers to. I started to get an interest for Biology and psychology when I was a sophomore. Like most people with a hobby, I indulged it. I spent several hours at the library reading books. I found the works of Kinsey, Darwin, Dawkins, Frued, Jung, etc. I started to learn about things I thought I new, but from a new light. I even looked into some other Religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and Taoism.

I also Read the Bible in its whole. After all this study, I was now 18 and going off to college. I went into both a Critical thinking class, and a Philosphy class. Neither of these classes told me what to think, but how to think. Both of these classes were also run by Christian professors.

I started analyzing what I believed, and especially after reading the Bible. I came to the conclusion that I didn't believe in God or Jesus, but images that the churches wanted to present as Jesus, and since I was a depressed teenager with issues about my sexuality and wanting acceptance, I believed it and wanted a savior.

Now as an Adult with a firmer grasp of my own mind, and the knowledge about how to audit information given to me, I can actually figure out my position and voice them logically.
I now sit on a mixture of Pantheistic and naturalistic beliefs.

Mostly philosophical beliefs from Pantheism, and logic from Naturalism. My thoughts on Christianity and any other religion is that they are cool stories that reflect the culture that birthed them, and are fables on how that culture understood the world based on the knowledge they had at the time, so they should be preserved and people should be able to go into these religions if they so choose. But I shall have the freedom to discuss and criticize a belief if I so choose.

that's about it.

 

[lamplady]

In our Bible class we have been talking alot about the nature of Christianity and how we can best minister it to non-believers. Are you a believer? Why or why not?

Yes I'm a believer. I think the best way to reach unbelievers is in our everyday day lives. But every way is good as long as the truth is being said. So whether it's at the pulpit or lunchtime at work God's message will get through.

I think all human beings have a natural inclination to know about themselves. Who hasn't asked, 'Where did we come from?', or 'Why are we here', for example? It's from those questions some begin looking for answers. Most fall in line with what's around them. But I think those who really thirst for the truth, really look and really find - they'll find Jesus.

I believe because Jesus really is the Comforter, he is our resting place and he does make our burdens light. He also died and rose from the dead that we may live. Jesus healed the sick and performed miracles. I don't know of any other faith that did such bold things and made such bold claims. Many religions appear to rely heavily on ritual and style of wear BEFORE you're considered worthy. Whereas Jesus basically said come as you are and HE will change you. I also believe because he is real and his message is the truth.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

 

[Strangelove]

In our Bible class we have been talking alot about the nature of Christianity and how we can best minister it to non-believers. Are you a believer? Why or why not?

Yes I'm a believer.

Why? Because I read the Gospel accounts and believed them to be genuine. Simple.

No religion involved whatsoever. Was never religious all my life. Never been to church. 30 years of atheism. Came to the Bible as part of my research into world affairs. Boom. The Grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. It's all you need.

How we can best minister it to non-believers?

Point them in the direction of the Gospels. Thats what they are for. Thats how scripture tells us to minister the non-believers. After that it's up to them. If they read it and believe then they are saved. If they read it and deny Jesus is the Christ then they are antichrist and a liar........and damned.

16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
​

16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that
believeth not shall be damned.​

Doc.

 

[Deavonreye]

I had to check the book again. In case you're ever curious just to find out why he would say something like that, it's in the opening chapter. Charles Templeton was his name. He was a mentor, I believe, for Billy Graham and had a tremendous ministry. In refreshing myself with the story, he's not an atheist. He's a man who became so disillusioned with all the death and misery around him, he simply swore off God. He got angry with Him. .. . . . .

In the interest of space, I just included the first part of your post.

I see now. That does make more sense to me and I'm glad you cleared that up.

*Sorry this next part will be a bit long*

As for if I "miss Jesus", . . . I remember thinking about "being a sinner" and how I was "priviledged to be forgiven", and it brought an emotional response. Mostly though, even when I had sincerely looked for those types of experiences, there weren't many of them. Later in life, as I reexamined my walk, I realized that people are wired TO be swayed by emotion [it's why worship music is so effective], and it can "alter reality" sometimes. For instance, the act of "falling in love" with someone of the opposite sex. It seems SO powerful, yet it is just a brain chemical overload that eventually calms down, . . . and it is necessary to help form a bond that is less about "love" and more about connection/friendship.

Why do I bring that up? Because I looked back on those experiences when I believed I had made some sort of connection with god, but they were always dependent upon experiences I was having. For example, youth camps, some powerful evangelist telling incredible stories, the Brownsville craze. But as you will no doubt say, such things are not [and were not] true realities, but emotional highs. All other times, when I remember back, I would go down to the alter to pray, . . . and feel nothing. Bible reading, I would feel nothing.

Now, I know that one might say, "it requires faith to hear god's voice". What I discover was that, FOR ME, . . . "faith" was no where near good enough. I may be wired differently than christians, but it just doesn't translate into reality. . . regardless of the fervency of someone else.

Here's the thing, . . . I cannot be [nor should anyone ELSE be] saved by someone else's experience. They may claim "a personal relationship with Jesus", but that is of no use to me.

That's just a small reason why I questioned and eventually deconverted. When I was questioning, a church leader told me that I needed to "just read the bible through if there are questions/doubts". I did. I started a journal to write down thoughts that came to me during the read. Surprisingly, I ended up finding more problems than I initially had issues with. . . . . So many, in fact, that I ended up putting it in book form.

That was just the beginning. I won't go into it much at all, but when I looked at the belief structure with a purely open mind, I was no longer able to see it as the moral/ethical system as it was taught to me.

 

[Dennyh]

In our Bible class we have been talking alot about the nature of Christianity and how we can best minister it to non-believers. Are you a believer? Why or why not?

Yes, I am a Believer. I first became a Believer when I was 16 and felt trmendous guilt for the bad stuff I had done in my life. I had been taught just prior to my conversion about the forgiveness of sin given by God through Jesus. I prayed and asked for that forgiveness and felt like a huge weight had lifted off of me. After that I knew I would still have to face the consequences of my sin but not the condemnation, and I was okay with that.


I think the best way to minister to a non-believer is to show them their sinfullness, and their need for a Savior. I know this is not the only way to do it but I think any person who presents the Gospel without acknowledging the need for repentance(turning away from sin) is not really representing the true Gospel.

 

[Strangelove]

I think the best way to minister to a non-believer is to show them their sinfullness, and their need for a Savior. I know this is not the only way to do it but I think any person who presents the Gospel without acknowledging the need for repentance(turning away from sin) is not really representing the true Gospel.

If you simply present someone the Gospel.....the Gospel will take care of the rest.

It shows them their sinfulness, it shows them their need to repent...and the need for a saviour. It's not mans job to 'show' these things, only the Gospels job. And it does it's job pretty darn well.

 

[Dennyh]

If you simply present someone the Gospel.....the Gospel will take care of the rest.

It shows them their sinfulness, it shows them their need to repent...and the need for a saviour. It's not mans job to 'show' these things, only the Gospels job. And it does it's job pretty darn well.

Exactly. That was what I was getting at. To tell someone about Jesus without mentioning sin or the need for repentance is not really sharing the Gospel.

However you explained it better than I did.