Do angles have free will?

[faithtransforms]

e coli and all manner of virus and other simplistic bacterium, and lower animals, reptilia and dont have wills.

Ok, well I would agree with that. I guess I just wouldn't put those things in the category of a "being". Such as something having a mind, a will, a consciousness. I don't know if, IMO, God would create a "being" as I define it, without a free will

lol, my dog has emotions, and a will. she is stubborn but doesnt have the will like we do, she cant know what God is ,let alone sin, and still has instincts.

Yes, she DOES have instincts...but as you well know, she ALSO has free will!!! She can CHOOSE to obey you or not, lol ; )

 

[jasoncran]

the difference is this when she dies, she wont be resurrected or damned.

and an animal doenst have an eternal soul.

or is made in the image of god. an angel is higher then us. see psalms 81.

 

[faithtransforms]

the difference is this when she dies, she wont be resurrected or damned.

and an animal doenst have an eternal soul.

or is made in the image of god. an angel is higher then us. see psalms 81.

i know angels are higher than us you booger! who you think you're talkin' too, lol? ; ) i'm undecided on the souls of animals. if the soul is the mind, will and emotions, then they've got one. is it eternal? again, i don't know. it definitely will not be resurrected or damned. Kenneth Hagin says they have souls but not spirits and therefore just disappear when they die. But it's hard for me to imagine any being without a spirit. so at this time, i'm straddled rather comfortably on the fence with regards to this. comfortably because it's not like it's a huge issue, just a thought.

btw, i haven't read this thread. you believe angels have free will, no?

 

[jasoncran]

if they had souls(animals) then they could be held accountable thus sin, angel when they fall arent offered grace. they are damned the second they rebel. and are reserved for judgment.

 

[stovebolts]

Well, I believe animals have souls, but that's really not the topic ;)

Faithtransforms,
I understand what you are saying, which is why I stated that my OP smacks at how some interpret Ez 28 and Is 14 and yes, there have been discussion on Ez 28 in the past.

When I listened to the audio which brought this up, it made mention that to have free will, one must be presented a choice. It described Satan as one who would present choice through sometimes a challenge. Take Gen 3 where Eve was presented a choice, and how that transpired and contrast it with Job, and what transpired. We even see this with Jesus when he was tempted in the desert.

Years ago I tried to do a very intense study of Job and I really, really tried to discern all of the arguments of his friends to see which arguments were right within the context, and which weren't because sometimes something can be right, but in the wrong place, they become the wrong answer. It was tough and I don't think I ever made it through the whole study. Maybe one day when my Torah studies are finished I'll try it again. But anyway, one thing that became clear to me right away was that Satan had to ask God for permission, and Satan had to stay within the boundaries that God set. We see this again in Luke 22:31. So the question for me has always been, "How does God use Satan to His benifit"

Simply put, in the case of Job, it expanded his understanding of the Nature of God. Job and his friends thought they had God's number down. God showed them otherwise. In short, God was bigger than any of them could concieve and God used Satan to stretch their view of who God is. It cause them all to wrestle with the tough questions on what it means to suffer in this lifetime.

Another thing that bothered me, is that as Christians, we've been told that God cannot be around evil, yet in Job, we see Satan before God. And we see Satan again face to face with Jesus.

Perhaps I'm simply babbling and rambling

 

[jasoncran]

i think we misuderstand that verse alot, that god doesnt look upon evil, another verse talks about the gathering of the angels and that a lying spirit answered god's question. whom shall deciecve king ahab for me.

 

[Teach]

Simply put, in the case of Job, it expanded his understanding of the Nature of God. Job and his friends thought they had God's number down. God showed them otherwise. In short, God was bigger than any of them could concieve and God used Satan to stretch their view of who God is. It cause them all to wrestle with the tough questions on what it means to suffer in this lifetime.

The story of Job is given to us as insight into spiritual warfare the workings of the spirit world and even God's world (3rd heaven) and obviously our world. Its purpose is also to explain the consequences of upholding righteousness and that of falling to sin. Satans area of influence is in the spirit world (2nd heaven) and our world (prince of the power of the air). Satan does not have free access to God's kingdom (3rd heaven, His throne room) he was expelled with a third of his followers (demons).

When we live in righteousness and obedience to God we obtain favor with God and build walls or hedges of protection around our life. These hedges are built by God for our protection against our enemy who is there to steal, kill and destroy. Job (1:10) As long as we walk in obedience to God our ennemy has no legal ground or authority to attack us. He may tempt us but he has no right to attack us. However, when we choose to live in disobedience in certain areas of our life, we begin the process of breaking down the walls or hedges of protection. At this point we surrender authority to Satan who then has legal ground to appear before God [Job (1:6)] and seek permission to attack us. Eccl. (10:8) "He that diggeth a pit shall fall into it; and whoso breaketh an hedge, a serpent shall bite him."

In Job’s case although God declared him to be righteous even perfect because he feared God and ran from evil, he nevertheless, had a sin in his life that triggered the whole process of Satan’s attack. Job confesses that the thing he “Greatly feared†has come upon him. Job (3:25) “For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto meâ€. Now God hasn’t given us a spirit of fear.2 Tim. (1:7)-- The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but the fear of anything else is sin, especially a GREAT FEAR.

The dynamic here that most Christians are unaware of is that act of confessing the sin. Job confessed his great fear. It is that confession or speaking out that gives Satan the knowledge of the thoughts, intents and sins in our heart. Satan is not omniscient and therefore cannot read our minds. But when Job confesses his fears, possibly to his wife, his friends or his family, this only serves to alert Satan and creates the process of transfer of authority in that area of his life. Remember that there is death and life in the tongue. Prov. (18:21)
Mat. (5:18) “But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.â€

It is also notable that obedience to God will bring down the walls of bondage and strongholds of Satan in our life. This is seen in the story of the Jericho walls. The Israelites in obedience to the Walk, the Silence and the Shout brought down the walls and were victorious in their quest. But that same story holds a great warning of judgment if we disobey God as is told in the story of the “Sin of Achaâ€.