Do animals have souls?

[scottiehey]

I was having a healthy discussion with a friend of mine last night over controversial topics such as abortion, evolution etc. As we continued to talk we came upon the subject of souls. I am curious about your thoughts and comments on this subject. Again, do animals have a soul?

 

[samuel]

I say no, not in the general sense. I could get into a rather lengthy conversation on this, but I prefer just to say no at this time.

 

[ProphetMark]

It does mention in Isaiah something about a horses spirit, so it would seem that horses have spirits. I can't think of any verses that suggest animals do or don't have souls though.
What's the difference between a soul and a spirit anyway?

 

[samuel]

According to popular explanation: the Spirit is the life. the soul is all the personality of the person. Or who that person is, myself they are so interconnected, I don't see any real difference.

 

[scottiehey]

Samuel, if you feel like expanding on your statement that animals do not have souls I would be interested in your justifications. Not to turn this into a debate, I also say animals are without souls. I'm just wondering where in the Bible it is stated as such so I may reference it.

 

[samuel]

Like I said soul, and spirit are so closely interconnected, I am not sure! you can actually separate them. In the Biblical sense that is.

I think the translators of the Bible used both terms, interchangeably. The reason I think so is because of a statement in Isaiah.

Isa:31:3: Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit. When the LORD shall stretch out his hand, both he that helpeth shall fall, and he that is holpen shall fall down, and they all shall fail together.

Isaiah seems to be referring to the souls of men here, and the lack of soul in the horses. Man is created in the image of God, that is to have intelligence, and intellect, the animals do not have. Although both have the spirit of life God gave, at death the animal simply dies, while the soul of man continues.

I can think of nowhere the Bible expounds on the difference, you have to come to this reasoning by general understanding. I know pet lovers may want to think their animals will greet them in Heaven, but I don't think that is the way it is.

### A little further research revealed a few more verses, check Ecclesiastes 3:21, and 12:7.

 

[Free]

I don't think that animals have souls. I think that the idea likely started with someone who couldn't understand why God wouldn't want Fluffy in heaven. I'm not trying to be mean but I think it stems from a lack of understanding about heaven--that what brings us happiness "down here" must also be the same as what will bring us happiness "up there". If someone is concerned whether or not their beloved pet is going to be in heaven, then I think they have completely missed what the Bible says about the afterlife.

Having said that, the Bible is silent so we ought not be dogmatic one way or the other. I would love for my two cats to be in heaven one day, but if not, I'm fairly certain there will be other things at least as worthy of my love and affections.

 

[chris overy]

is this thread helping anyone with spiritual growth? if it is tell me how please?

 

[guibox]

As far as tradition goes...yes indeed, animals have immortal souls.

Preposterous? Nope.

Here is why.

The traditionalist says that when Christ and Stephen say 'Into Thy hands I commit my spirit', that their souls went to heaven.

These references are taken from Ecclesiastes 12:7.

According to tradition the 'spirit that goes back to God' is the immortal soul. In other words, the spirit is the soul.

What does Ecclesiastes 3:21 say?

"Who knoweth the spirit (ruach) of man that goeth upward and the spirit (ruach) of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

The 'spirit' is the same for both man and beast. And according to the traditional thought then, taking this analogy to the logical conclusion: if 'goeth upward' means the immortal soul goes to heaven, then 'goeth downward' means that the immortal soul of animals goes to hell.

Tradition has condemned all our furry beasts to eternal hellfire.

However, when we understand the terms the way the bible uses them, we see that both man and beast are 'souls'. They are 'nephesh' and have the 'ruach' the breath of life in them.

Both man and beast do not HAVE souls, they ARE souls. Nephesh means 'living being' and both animals and man are referred to as 'souls'.

But tradition and all it's contradictions and illogistics are more convenient to hang on to instead of biblical truth.

 

[samuel]

"goeth downward to the earth" in no way is a refrence to hell. It simply means dust they were, and to dust they return.

The Bible also says the body of man returns to the earth from whence it came, but the spirit returns to God who gave it. This does not mean man is necessarily going to hell, it simply means our old body of dust ceases to exist.

Nowhere in the Bible, does it point to the fact that animals! have immortal souls. In fact it seems to point out quite the contrary. So when the animal dies, it simply ceases to exist. It has no immortal soul to go either here, or there.

The Bible points out Adam was created a living soul, this means immortal, it says no such thing about the animal creation.

To say animals are created on the level of man, supports sciences theory of evolution, and reduces us to just another species of creature. That! the Bible does not support.

 

[Paidion]

The concept of our "having" a soul, or "being" a soul clothed in a robe of flesh, is pure Greek thought.

Let's consider Genesis to see how the Hebrews viewed the matter:

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7 KJ21

The LORD, that is, Yahweh, formed a body from earth. He breathed into this body the breath of life. Thus the body, with the breath of life (spirit) imparted BECAME a living soul.

The "spirit" is simply the breath of life that comes from God. It has no personality; it is life from God, and goes back to God at death.

If the "soul" were the personality trapped in a body, an immortal personality that lives on after death, how can there be such a thing as a "dead soul"? Leviticus 21:1

The equation is:

Body + Spirit ==> Soul

Guibox had it right. It doesn't say that man received a soul. It says that man becamea soul. A number of translations say "became a living being". This is correct. The Hebrew word "nephesh" means "being" or sometimes "self" as does the Greek word ÈÅÇη as it has been translated into Greek in the Septuagint. The Greek word also means "being" or "self" in the New Testament.

THE BIBLICAL MEANING OF “SOULâ€Â

In both New and Old Testaments, I find that there are basically four meanings of the word translated as "soul" (that is, the Greek word "ÈÅÇη" and the Hebrew word "nephesh.") Here are a few examples:

New Testament

LIFE

Mark 8:35
For whoever would save his soul will lose it; and whoever loses his soul for my sake and the gospel’s will save it.

BEING

Matt 20:27,28
and whoever would be first among you must be your slave; even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his soul as a means of liberation in place of many

Matt 26:38
Then he said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me."

SELF

Matt 6:25
"Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your soul, what you shall eat or what you shall drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. Is not the soul more than food, and the body more than clothing?

Luke 12:19
And I will say to my soul, 'Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry.’

Matt 12:18
(Quoting Isaiah)
"Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he shall proclaim justice to the Gentiles.

Luke 14:26
"If any one comes to me and does not discount his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own soul, he cannot be my disciple.

Sometimes there is a fine line, or perhaps even no line, between the meaning "being" and the meaning "self."

PERSON

Acts 3:23
[Quoting Moses]:
And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.


Acts 2:41
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

Old Testament

BEING

Gen 2:7
then the Yahweh God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

LIFE
Gen 1:20
swarms of creatures that have soul.

Leviticus 17:11
‘For the soul of the flesh is in the blood …'

SELF

Genesis 27:4
and prepare a savory dish for me such as I love, and bring it to me that I may eat, so that my soul may bless you before I die."

Leviticus 19:28
You shall not make any gashes in your flesh for the soul or tattoo any marks upon you: I am Yahweh.

PERSON

Leviticus 21:1
Yahweh said to Moses: Speak to the priests, the sons of Aaron, and say to them: No one shall defile himself for a dead soul among his relatives.

 

[handy]

My somewhat random thoughts on this subject:

Animals do have souls, but they are not made in the image of God. It is the fact that God made us in His image, not the fact that we have souls, that set us apart from animals. But, the word nephesh, which is translated as soul is used of the animals in the same context it is used of man in Genesis.

God made animals to be eternally living as well as man. In the beginning, all, including the animals, were fed solely by the fruit of the earth. The animals were deemed 'good' at their creation, and while they (as well as the whole earth) suffer the consequenses of sin, (including death), there is no reason to believe that they would not be restored to life during the final resurrection. Had Adam not sinned, those animals would still be alive today.

I don't believe that either animals or humans reside in heaven. Although heaven is filled with a multitude of creatures, some of which seem angelic and others more beastly, the humans and the animals that God created to reside on this earth will do so.

Paradise and the Garden of Eden are one in the same. All who die with the Lord now, reside with the Lord in Paradise, just as He promised the thief on the cross. Paradise and Heaven have full communication with each other, but they are not one in the same. The river of Life, which flows from the throne of God, flows into Paradise and the Tree of Life is planted at this river.

Just as animals had a place in the Garden, and had a place in the world God created in Genesis, I believe they also have a place in Paradise and a place in the New World He will create.

And, last thought, I don't think this is a question that is clearly defined in the Scriptures. There is enough clues to indicate that animals have souls that are as eternal as men's souls. In the absense of any texts that state outright that animals do not have souls and will not enjoy eternity, then I think it's best to assume that they do.

As for whether or not this subject helps anyone with spiritual growth, the best it can do is drive someone to deeply search the Scriptures in order to find an answer, and if anyone deeply searches the Scriptures on any subject, then they will grow spiritually.

 

[scottiehey]

Thank you for the responses so far. They have been helpful. :D

 

[Nikki]

My daughter came out of Sunday School one day recently crying because during the prayer request time, my dd asked for prayer for our dog that was recently diagnosed with cancer and congestive heart failure. The teacher said "The dog is going to die and animals don't go to heaven". I was FURIOUS! You do NOT say something like that to a child even if it is your belief.

I don't know if they have a soul, but I personally believe that animals are in heaven because of these verses:

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.â€Â

Rev 4:2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.

Rev 4:3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian. A rainbow, resembling an emerald, encircled the throne.

Rev 4:4 Surrounding the throne were twenty‑four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty‑four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.

Rev 4:5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. Before the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits[fn1] of God.

Rev 4:6 Also before the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back.

Rev 4:7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle.

Rev 4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,

who was, and is, and is to come.â€Â


Rev 4:9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever,

Rev 4:10 the twenty‑four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

Rev 4:11

“You are worthy, our Lord and God,

to receive glory and honor and power,

for you created all things,

and by your will they were created

and have their being.â€Â

***************************************************************************

And here is my favorite:

Rev 6:2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

Rev 6:3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!â€Â

Rev 6:4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.

Rev 6:5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!†I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand.

*******************************************************************************************************************

So don't tell me that there are no animals in heaven when the bible specifically mentions horses coming out of heaven and also mentions other creatures.

 

[Nikki]

is this thread helping anyone with spiritual growth? if it is tell me how please?

Not every thread in this forum is about spiritual growth. People are welcome to the forums to talk about anything that doesn't go against the rules.

 

[Carol Lowery]

Yes I believe dogs/animals have souls, I believe anything that God has given the breath of life to does. Not to the point of accountability, but life eternal. HE does provide for their needs, as well as ours.

Kudos HIM,
Carol <><

 

[handy]

Again, while I would agree there isn't a definitive answer in the Scriptures regarding this question, I think the clues point to the animals having souls, and souls that are just as eternal as ours.

One of the clues I mentioned before is that the same word used for soul for man in Genesis is also used for the animals as well.

Another clue, and I think a very significant one is this: God had a place for the animals on the ark as well as for man.

Now, 1 Peter 3:20-22 talks of how God brought eight persons safely through the waters, and corresponding to that, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The passage is comparing baptism to the ark, that there was salvation from death through the waters. The passage is speaking to humans and about humans, so I don't want to make any kind of dogmatic statments here, nor do I think we should try to baptise the cat. To me, though, this is yet another clue that the souls of animals are precious to God, just as the souls of men are. God could have perserved animals in some other way, or simply re-created animals after the flood or done any number of things, but He placed them on the ark, and used the ark as a symbol of the saving grace of baptism.

Nikki, I would be angry too, at that comment by a Sunday School teacher. I won't be angry or blame God if Kitty-kitty, Rajah, Duchess, Botticelli, Cleo or my beloved Miranda who died last week aren't in the new earth or in Paradise. But, I won't be the least bit surprised if they are.

What is a soul anyway, if it's not our capacity to think, to love, to empathize with others, to think outside ourselves and to reason through problems? Can anyone honestly say that animals cannot do this? The night Dad died, all through the night, his dog Bea whimpered and cried. She normally is a very quiet dog, and she is exclusivly an outside dog. So, she wasn't in the house to hear, see, or smell anything. But, she cried and whimpered all the night through, I know because I was up as well. I fell asleep sometime around 2:00 am. I woke at 5:00 and dad was gone. And, Bea was quiet again as well.

 

[Carol Lowery]

I agree with you Dora, to many examples in the Bible.

Kudos HIM,
Carol <><

 

[Nikki]

Nikki, I would be angry too, at that comment by a Sunday School teacher. I won't be angry or blame God if Kitty-kitty, Rajah, Duchess, Botticelli, Cleo or my beloved Miranda who died last week aren't in the new earth or in Paradise. But, I won't be the least bit surprised if they are.

Ditto! I know that God doesn't allow sadness in heaven. So if animals AREN'T in heaven, he will erase that memory from our minds. But I find comfort now on earth believing that they will be in heaven. I LOVE animals and can't imagine them not being there. I was so mad at the Sunday school teacher! She should have known better. She could have at least said "I don't know". UGH. :smt011

 

[find the bishop]

Totally Agree!

I think every living thing has a soul!

Like this tree once when i was a kid, we cut it down but I could still feeeel it! Call me strange! :

The mind boggles! :crazyeyes: