Do preterists believe in Satan?

[Sinthesis]

I don't think so guys. If the Millennium was this 40 year period as you say; spanning 30 AD to 70 AD in the first century - and if Satan was really cast into the lake of fire in A.D. 70; then he must have been bound in the first century leading up to 70 AD; no?

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years; And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." (Revelation 20:2,3)


He's bound during the Millennium guys. If Satan was bound during the Millennium (the first century in your eyes) we should expect to find some clear indications in Scripture that this was the case; should we not? But the Scriptures clearly indicate that Satan was free during the 40-year period in the first century:...

Hey, score one for Osgiliath!

 

[Matthew24:34]

I don't think so guys. If the Millennium was this 40 year period as you say; spanning 30 AD to 70 AD in the first century - and if Satan was really cast into the lake of fire in A.D. 70; then he must have been bound in the first century leading up to 70 AD; no?

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years; And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." (Revelation 20:2,3)


He's bound during the Millennium guys. If Satan was bound during the Millennium (the first century in your eyes) we should expect to find some clear indications in Scripture that this was the case; should we not? But the Scriptures clearly indicate that Satan was free during the 40-year period in the first century:...

Hey, score one for Osgiliath!

Actually, no score really. What does it mean to be bound? It is explained right there in the text. Before Christ came, the people of God were restricted to the nation of Israel (even though within that nation their were many who did not believe). There were a few proselytes along the way such as Rahab and Ruth, but otherwise the nations of the world were of the Uncircumcision. They were "without Christ" and were "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world" (Eph. 2:11ff). In Christ, however, they, "who once were far off" were brought "near by the blood of Christ." With the coming of Christ, then, the promise to Abraham that he would be the father of MANY nations, was fulfilled (Gen. 12:3; Gal. 3:8).

The purpose of the binding of Satan was so that he could deceive the nations no longer--as he had done in OT times before the coming of Christ. In Him, God broke down "the middle wall of separation" and abolished in His flesh the enmity" and created of the two (Jew and Gentile) "one new man." He reconciled them "both to God in one body through the cross" (Eph. 2:14ff). During the preaching of the Gospel, which spread throughout that entire first-century world, Satan was "bound" so that he could not deceive the nations and keep them from believing.

Again, in a book replete with symbols, we do not have to envision a literal "bottomless pit" in which Satan was "bound" by a literal seal set upon it! This is certainly not new language to the Jewish mind. In the account of the judgment upon Egypt, Ezekiel wrote: "Son of man, wail over the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down to the depths of the earth . . . with those who go down to the pit" (Ezek. 32:18). We see this same type of FIGURATIVE language in God's judgment against the king of Tyre--"They [strangers] shall throw you down into the Pit, and you shall die the death of the slain in the midst of the seas" (Ezek. 28:8). The language is no less figurative in Revelation 20. If we insist on being rigidly literal in Revelation 20 and look for a physical pit in which Satan is bound up by an angel with actual, physical large chains, we will err. In other words, if we are to take the thousands years literally, then we must accept that an angel came and bound up Satan with a literal chain and locked some literal door with a literal key! The symbol of a key is often representative of power or authority. Jesus described Himself as having "the keys of hades and of death" (Rev. 1:18). Later He says he ha the "key of David (Rev. 3:7). Remember also that Peter and the Apostles were given the "keys of the kingdom" (Mat. 16:19). The thousand years are not literal, the great chain is not literal, the pit is not literal, and the key or seal is not literal (unless symbolically literal).

We know from history that for the most part, following Pilate's removal from Judea, Rome prevented the Jews from persecuting the Church to the extent they would have liked. In this atmosphere of relative freedom, "believers were increasingly added to the Lord" (Acts 5:14). Even a "great many of the priests were obedient to the faith" (Acts 6:7). Christ reigned from heaven (Stephen saw Him) and churches were established throughout the kingdom! Even the arrest and trial of Paul furthered this advancement. Satan was "bound" from stopping it! He could no longer deceive the nations; the Gentiles filled the churches! When he was loosed (permitted again to do his vile deeds), he came against the church with a vengeance through the wicked attacks by Nero and the Jews. Ulimately, the "beast" turned on the Jews, invaded their city, and destroyed it and the Temple.

Again, taking that which if figurative and symbolic figuratively and symbolically does not do injustice to literalism. When something is figurative or symbolic, we take it "literally" by accepting it as figurative or symbolic. We must also keep in mind that the events of the Revelation are not rigidly chronological. For example, the events of chapters 11 and 13 do not necessarily precede the events of chapter 20! But that's another issue.

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

 

[parousia70]

I don't think so guys. If Satan was bound during the Millennium (the first century in your eyes) we should expect to find some clear indications in Scripture that this was the case; should we not?

Hey, score one for Osgiliath!

Errr... not really

Matt 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be boundin heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.â€Â


Are you folks insisting the apostles did not have this power to render bound "whatever" they chose to Bind back in the first century?

Maybe they had the power but didn't use it?

Matt 24:34 did a better job 'splanin than I could here, but sufice it to say Satan was indeed Bound By Christ and the apostles earthly ministry, and subsequently rendered POWERLESS to deceive the nations and prevent people from salvation.

This futurist "Flip Wilson" theology is going nowhere fast.

 

[Osgiliath]

Flip Wilson? Haven't heard that name forever. Showing your (our) age there parousia. :D Anyway, pretty futile attempt at refuting the Scripturally obvious. The Scripture I cited clearly shows that Satan was free during the first century; period! Also, you seem to be forgetting that the martyrs killed by the beast during the whole "tribulation period" are not raised UNTIL Christ returns and casts the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire. It is THEN that the Millennial reign takes place, and Satan is bound.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Your timing makes no sense, and completely contradicts Scripture. If the Millennial reign is the reward of martyrs killed during the tribulation; and if that tribulation happened (in your eyes) around A.D. 66-70; then by simple logic once again, it is impossible to place the binding of Satan any earlier than the destruction of Jerusalem.

And you say our theology is going nowhere?



Matthew, your theological ideas are just getting weirder and weirder as time goes on, so there is no need to comment.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

<~~ Partial Preterist.
Yes, I believe Satan exists, a fallen archangel, god, whichever.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

The word "bruise" from Strong's

G4937
ÃÆ’Ã…νÄÃÂίβÉ
suntribÃ…Â
soon-tree'-bo
From G4862 and the base of G5147; to crush completely, that is, to shatter (literally or figuratively): - break (in pieces), broken to shivers (+ -hearted), bruise.

Crush is better imo. ;)

But as a partial pret, I believe Satan was let/will be let out. (personally I think he is out as we speak) ;) :D

Yes crush is better,,,,,I dont think he's out yet,,,he only has a short time (5 months) but I wish they would hurry up and boot him.....

 

[researcher]

<~~ Partial Preterist.
Yes, I believe Satan exists, a fallen archangel, god, whichever.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

The word "bruise" from Strong's

G4937
ÃÆ’Ã…νÄÃÂίβÉ
suntribÃ…Â
soon-tree'-bo
From G4862 and the base of G5147; to crush completely, that is, to shatter (literally or figuratively): - break (in pieces), broken to shivers (+ -hearted), bruise.

Crush is better imo. ;)

But as a partial pret, I believe Satan was let/will be let out. (personally I think he is out as we speak) ;) :D

Yes crush is better,,,,,I dont think he's out yet,,,he only has a short time (5 months) but I wish they would hurry up and boot him.....

Nightmaaaaare! :D How you doin' bro! :D LTNS.

I think you'll find I've moved a bit in terms of what I believe happened/will happen. Partial-preterism has a way of doing that, Lol. ;) :D As for the 5 months, I'm leaning towards it being a historical event. ;) :D

Good seeing you bro. ;) :D Post away! ;) :D

Jeff

 

[Cornelius]

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

"under your feet" is a clue. If we can picture Jesus as the HEAD of the body of Christ (which He is) then the Head's opposite side will be the "feet". 2000 years ago, He was the head and now we move down the time-line to today. WE can also then be seen as "the feet" The "feet" arrived 2000 years later.

Well, that is one way of seeing this........ The Body of Christ "lying down in time" with its Head in the beginning and the "feet" at the end.

Satan will definitely be crushed by this generation. Once we see the anointing of the latter rain,(the manifestation of Christ in His body) this will come to pass. Hos 6:3 ....... he will come unto us as the rain, as the latter rain that watereth the earth.

 

[whirlwind]

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

"under your feet" is a clue. If we can picture Jesus as the HEAD of the body of Christ (which He is) then the Head's opposite side will be the "feet". 2000 years ago, He was the head and now we move down the time-line to today. WE can also then be seen as "the feet" The "feet" arrived 2000 years later.

Well, that is one way of seeing this........ The Body of Christ "lying down in time" with its Head in the beginning and the "feet" at the end.

Satan will definitely be crushed by this generation. Once we see the anointing of the latter rain,(the manifestation of Christ in His body) this will come to pass. Hos 6:3 ....... he will come unto us as the rain, as the latter rain that watereth the earth.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; 'These things saith the Son of God, Who hath His eyes like unto a flame of fire, and His feet are like fine brass; (brilliant whiteness)

1 Corinthians 15:23-27 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's, at His coming. Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For He hath put all things under His feet. But when He saith "all things are put under Him", it is manifest that He is excepted, Which did put all things under Him.



We are the kingdom of God. We are the feet of Christ. At "His coming" we are changed into the fine brass.....( brilliant whiteness ). We are His rod of iron that "He hath put all things under."

We are His feet!

 

[NIGHTMARE]

<~~ Partial Preterist.
Yes, I believe Satan exists, a fallen archangel, god, whichever.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

The word "bruise" from Strong's

G4937
ÃÆ’Ã…νÄÃÂίβÉ
suntribÃ…Â
soon-tree'-bo
From G4862 and the base of G5147; to crush completely, that is, to shatter (literally or figuratively): - break (in pieces), broken to shivers (+ -hearted), bruise.

Crush is better imo. ;)

But as a partial pret, I believe Satan was let/will be let out. (personally I think he is out as we speak) ;) :D

Yes crush is better,,,,,I dont think he's out yet,,,he only has a short time (5 months) but I wish they would hurry up and boot him.....

Nightmaaaaare! :D How you doin' bro! :D LTNS.

I think you'll find I've moved a bit in terms of what I believe happened/will happen. Partial-preterism has a way of doing that, Lol. ;) :D As for the 5 months, I'm leaning towards it being a historical event. ;) :D

Good seeing you bro. ;) :D Post away! ;) :D



Jeff

Hey wazzzz up,,,,Im good,,,,I was kinda shocked to see you and WW and some others on here....

What historical event do you equip to the 5 months???????

 

[researcher]

Hey wazzzz up,,,,Im good,,,,I was kinda shocked to see you and WW and some others on here....

What historical event do you equip to the 5 months???????

The other site was down for several weeks. A lot of people stumbled on this one, Lol. ;) :D

The 5 months? The siege of Jerusalem in 70AD. ;) :D

That's just my opinion though. May be, may not be. ;) :D

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Hey wazzzz up,,,,Im good,,,,I was kinda shocked to see you and WW and some others on here....

What historical event do you equip to the 5 months???????

The other site was down for several weeks. A lot of people stumbled on this one, Lol. ;) :D

The 5 months? The siege of Jerusalem in 70AD. ;) :D

That's just my opinion though. May be, may not be. ;) :D

Il have to look into it,,,but I believe that satan will be here an spew a flood of lies for 5 months interestingly enough Noah was also involved in a flood that lasted 5 months...

 

[westtexas]

Hey wazzzz up,,,,Im good,,,,I was kinda shocked to see you and WW and some others on here....

What historical event do you equip to the 5 months???????

The other site was down for several weeks. A lot of people stumbled on this one, Lol. ;) :D

The 5 months? The siege of Jerusalem in 70AD. ;) :D

That's just my opinion though. May be, may not be. ;) :D

Il have to look into it,,,but I believe that satan will be here an spew a flood of lies for 5 months interestingly enough Noah was also involved in a flood that lasted 5 months...

Nightmare, I'm not trying to argue but I'm curious where you come up with 5 months for the flood for Noah. Genesis7:11 Noah was 600 yrs old and went into the ark on the 17th day of the 2nd month. Genesis 7:12 it rained 40 days and 40 nights. Genesis 8:13-14 Noah was 601 yrs old and came out of the ark on the 27th day of the 2nd month. This is 40 days and nights of rain and 1 yr and 10 days on the ark. What is the significance of your 5 months?

your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[NIGHTMARE]

[/quote]
Nightmare, I'm not trying to argue but I'm curious where you come up with 5 months for the flood for Noah. Genesis7:11 Noah was 600 yrs old and went into the ark on the 17th day of the 2nd month. Genesis 7:12 it rained 40 days and 40 nights. Genesis 8:13-14 Noah was 601 yrs old and came out of the ark on the 27th day of the 2nd month. This is 40 days and nights of rain and 1 yr and 10 days on the ark. What is the significance of your 5 months?

your brother in Christ, Westtexas[/quote]

Hey ,,,yeah,,,well,,,,,I think I did exactlly what you did......I got one solar year an 10 days,,,just like your 1 yr and 10 days........ :yes

How long was the ark actually on the water?????? now,,, not, the time until Noah open up the ark,,,,ONLY
the time it was actually on the "water"???????
7:11 8:13

 

[westtexas]

Nightmare, I'm not trying to argue but I'm curious where you come up with 5 months for the flood for Noah. Genesis7:11 Noah was 600 yrs old and went into the ark on the 17th day of the 2nd month. Genesis 7:12 it rained 40 days and 40 nights. Genesis 8:13-14 Noah was 601 yrs old and came out of the ark on the 27th day of the 2nd month. This is 40 days and nights of rain and 1 yr and 10 days on the ark. What is the significance of your 5 months?

your brother in Christ, Westtexas[/quote]

Hey ,,,yeah,,,well,,,,,I think I did exactlly what you did......I got one solar year an 10 days,,,just like your 1 yr and 10 days........ :yes

How long was the ark actually on the water?????? now,,, not, the time until Noah open up the ark,,,,ONLY
the time it was actually on the "water"???????
7:11 8:13[/quote]
I know I went to school in Texas and we can't add real good but I still don't see the 5 months. Maybe I should have been born in Missouri and then I could say you got to Show Me.
Your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[Osgiliath]

Genesis 7:24 "And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days."

i.e. - Five Months

 

[westtexas]

Genesis 7:24 "And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days."

i.e. - Five Months

Thank you sir, I told you us Texas boys can't add (guess we can't read neither)
Your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Nightmare, I'm not trying to argue but I'm curious where you come up with 5 months for the flood for Noah. Genesis7:11 Noah was 600 yrs old and went into the ark on the 17th day of the 2nd month. Genesis 7:12 it rained 40 days and 40 nights. Genesis 8:13-14 Noah was 601 yrs old and came out of the ark on the 27th day of the 2nd month. This is 40 days and nights of rain and 1 yr and 10 days on the ark. What is the significance of your 5 months?

your brother in Christ, Westtexas

Hey ,,,yeah,,,well,,,,,I think I did exactlly what you did......I got one solar year an 10 days,,,just like your 1 yr and 10 days........ :yes

How long was the ark actually on the water?????? now,,, not, the time until Noah open up the ark,,,,ONLY
the time it was actually on the "water"???????
7:11 8:13[/quote]
I know I went to school in Texas and we can't add real good but I still don't see the 5 months. Maybe I should have been born in Missouri and then I could say you got to Show Me.
Your brother in Christ, Westtexas[/quote]

LOL Well I think you can finish up the math on your own with this

Genesis 7:24 "And the water prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days."

1 month 30,,,,, 2 month 60,,,,,,3 month 90,,,,,,4 month 120,,,,,,,5 month,,,,"150"

Genesis 7:24 "And the water prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days."


it is a type for how long the waters (lies) of satan will rule during the end time....

Revelation 9:"5" And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."

and again "5" verses later

Revelation 9:10 "And they had [have] tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months."............

 

[researcher]

Hey wazzzz up,,,,Im good,,,,I was kinda shocked to see you and WW and some others on here....

What historical event do you equip to the 5 months???????

The other site was down for several weeks. A lot of people stumbled on this one, Lol. ;) :D

The 5 months? The siege of Jerusalem in 70AD. ;) :D

That's just my opinion though. May be, may not be. ;) :D

Il have to look into it,,,but I believe that satan will be here an spew a flood of lies for 5 months interestingly enough Noah was also involved in a flood that lasted 5 months...

Yes, look into it. I believe there is ample evidence for much of Revelation and Matthew 24 to be regarded as historical. It should at least be looked at as a possibility and researched.

On the 5 months, I think we are talking about roughly the same time period...

Mat 24:21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.

But I think that Jesus was merely talking about Israel (Jerusalem more specifically) in 70AD in that verse.

Some say the destruction of 70AD will repeat itself, and that the trib will be global this time instead of only on Jerusalem. Lol. Maybe, maybe not. Guess it's just wait and see. ;) ;) ;) :D