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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Do the catholics know why Jesus told us...
- Thread starter Heidi
- Start date
T
thessalonian
Guest
Heidi said:
We've been around the "you better call your father (oops broke Jesus command again darnit. Oh well, Paul couldn't help himself calling Abraham (romans 4) and even himself (1 Cor 4:15) father so maybe I won't go to hell over it) daddy" circle before but why don't you fill us in with another of your infallible interpretations. :o
B
BradtheImpaler
Guest
Heidi said:
In New York, Catholic priests are called "Fad-duh", not "Fa-ther". (watch "Angels With Dirty Faces" starring James Cagney, Pat O'Brien, and the "Bowery Boys" and you'll see what I mean)
I think that's how they get around it - at least where I come from :wink:
F
Fulton Sheen's Warrior
Guest
+JMJ+
The Catholic interpretation of Mathew 23:9, is that Christ was criticizing the Jewish leaders who love, “the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men"(Matt. 23:6–7).
We don’t believe, however, that Christ was forbidding us to address properly our Father, or Spiritual Father.
Spiritual father/son relationships are often mentioned in Sacred Scripture:
St. Paul says:
"I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
"Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ" (1 Cor. 4:17)
"To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2)
To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2).
"This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare" (1 Tim 1:18)
"You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1
"But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel" (Phil. 2:22).
St. Peter says:
"She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark" (1 Pet. 5:13)
Is it not appropriate, when addressed as a spiritual son or daughter, to address one who is a, “Fathers in Christ Jesus through the Gospel(Cor. 4:14–15), as indeed, a father?
God bless!
The Catholic interpretation of Mathew 23:9, is that Christ was criticizing the Jewish leaders who love, “the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men"(Matt. 23:6–7).
We don’t believe, however, that Christ was forbidding us to address properly our Father, or Spiritual Father.
Spiritual father/son relationships are often mentioned in Sacred Scripture:
St. Paul says:
"I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
"Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ" (1 Cor. 4:17)
"To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2)
To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2).
"This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare" (1 Tim 1:18)
"You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1
"But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel" (Phil. 2:22).
St. Peter says:
"She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark" (1 Pet. 5:13)
Is it not appropriate, when addressed as a spiritual son or daughter, to address one who is a, “Fathers in Christ Jesus through the Gospel(Cor. 4:14–15), as indeed, a father?
God bless!
B
BradtheImpaler
Guest
Fulton Sheen's Warrior said:
You think that Catholic priests might love the same things? (substitute "Father" for "Rabbi")
G
GundamZero
Guest
Well, I don't think Paul had intended "Father" to become a title, but it isn't necessarily out of context. Though I get the feeling any title was only supposed to be common between intimate friends. Like you would call your spouse "sweety" or your best friend "bro" or "Sis".
It's just a title otherwise; no reason to be upset with it. If I were Catholic I would call the man who leads my family "Father" not out of respect for the office or out of pomp, but because I love him and respect him too much to call him by any other title.
I'm Baptist, so my version would be Pastor, or Reverend, (Does anyone Use Minister as a real salutation? :-? ) But it means the same thing.
Love, you see; that's the point.
It's just a title otherwise; no reason to be upset with it. If I were Catholic I would call the man who leads my family "Father" not out of respect for the office or out of pomp, but because I love him and respect him too much to call him by any other title.
I'm Baptist, so my version would be Pastor, or Reverend, (Does anyone Use Minister as a real salutation? :-? ) But it means the same thing.
Love, you see; that's the point.
F
Fulton Sheen's Warrior
Guest
I call them Father because that's what they are, not because that's what they want to be called.
If my father came to me and said, "You know what? Why don't you call me Dave?" Even if he said this with the utmost humility, I, as his son, would feel compelled still out of respect to call him father.
God Bless
G
Georges
Guest
Catholicism is a blend of Judaism, Gnosticism, and Mithraism....
The Catholic term "Father" comes from the Mithratic "mystery cult" term Pater....and was the highest rank in the mithratic religion.
From the website: http://www.crystalinks.com/mithra.html
Mithraic Ranks
The members of a mithraeum were divided into seven ranks. All members were apparently expected to progress through the first four ranks, while only a few would go on to the three higher ranks. The first four ranks seem to represent spiritual progress, while the other three appear to have been specialized offices. The seven ranks were:
Corax (raven)
Nymphus (bride)
Miles (soldier)
Leo (lion)
Perses (Persian)
Heliodromus (sun-courier)
Pater (father)
The blending of Christianity with Mithraism introduced many pagan practices....including the title Pope (Father, Pater).
The Catholic term "Father" comes from the Mithratic "mystery cult" term Pater....and was the highest rank in the mithratic religion.
From the website: http://www.crystalinks.com/mithra.html
Mithraic Ranks
The members of a mithraeum were divided into seven ranks. All members were apparently expected to progress through the first four ranks, while only a few would go on to the three higher ranks. The first four ranks seem to represent spiritual progress, while the other three appear to have been specialized offices. The seven ranks were:
Corax (raven)
Nymphus (bride)
Miles (soldier)
Leo (lion)
Perses (Persian)
Heliodromus (sun-courier)
Pater (father)
The blending of Christianity with Mithraism introduced many pagan practices....including the title Pope (Father, Pater).
S
stray bullet
Guest
Most information about Christianity and Mithraism is actually totally bunk. That is, lies and myths that can only be confirmed by books that need selling or internet sites.
Any really research into Mithraism shows it has very little in common with Christianity.
Any really research into Mithraism shows it has very little in common with Christianity.
S
stray bullet
Guest
As for Gnosticism, Catholicism predates Gnosticism, a second century religion created by Simon Magus.
Fulton Sheen's Warrior said:
You didn't answer the question either: What do catholics think Jesus mreans by not calling anyone on earth Father? Again, it's a very simple question, Or don't you believe Jesus's words? If not, then how can you follow someone you don't believe? :o You first have to know what someone is talking about before you can decide to follow him. ;-)
F
Fulton Sheen's Warrior
Guest
+JMJ+
We don’t believe, however, that Christ was forbidding us to address properly our Father, or Spiritual Father.
Spiritual father/son relationships are often mentioned in Sacred Scripture:
St. Paul says:
"I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
"Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ" (1 Cor. 4:17)
"To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2)
To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2).
"This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare" (1 Tim 1:18)
"You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1
"But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel" (Phil. 2:22).
St. Peter says:
"She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark" (1 Pet. 5:13)
Is it not appropriate, when addressed as a spiritual son or daughter, to address one who is a, “Fathers in Christ Jesus through the Gospel(Cor. 4:14–15), as indeed, a father?
God bless!
The Catholic interpretation of Mathew 23:9, is that Christ was criticizing the Jewish leaders who love, “the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men"(Matt. 23:6–7).
We don’t believe, however, that Christ was forbidding us to address properly our Father, or Spiritual Father.
Spiritual father/son relationships are often mentioned in Sacred Scripture:
St. Paul says:
"I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
"Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ" (1 Cor. 4:17)
"To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2)
To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2).
"This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare" (1 Tim 1:18)
"You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1
"But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel" (Phil. 2:22).
St. Peter says:
"She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark" (1 Pet. 5:13)
Is it not appropriate, when addressed as a spiritual son or daughter, to address one who is a, “Fathers in Christ Jesus through the Gospel(Cor. 4:14–15), as indeed, a father?
God bless!
G
Georges
Guest
stray bullet said:
Yeh...right...
: ..anyone with a computer or library close by can do the research and make up their own mind....any research into Mithraism will show a great deal in common....hello, Constantine....
G
Georges
Guest
stray bullet said:
Not quite accurate either....Gnosticism predates Plato.....and was developed more fully (in the Greco-Roman world) by the Greek philosophers....
...And although Simon magnus is associated with Gnosticism he was not from the 2nd century, he was a contemporary of the Apostles. Simon Magnus may very well have been the very first pope....as some speculate. Simon Magnus goes to Rome....the Church moves from Israel to Rome.....Mithraism is Christianity's main competitor in the Rome...and on it goes....
S
stray bullet
Guest
It's called hyperbole. Even the apostles called leaders in the church 'fathers'... check your bibles.
Do you really believe Jesus is wanting us to, literally, call no man father? What do you call your father, "donator of Y chromosome"?
Do you really believe Jesus is wanting us to, literally, call no man father? What do you call your father, "donator of Y chromosome"?
S
stray bullet
Guest
Georges said:stray bullet said:
Yeh...right...
any research into Mithraism will show a great deal in common....hello, Constantine....
What research? Reading webpages from people uninformed or with an axe to grind about Christian? Why don't you seriously study up on the religion and not just the books that compare.
They come up with nonsense like, "in both religions, the hero is born of a virgin". Well, I guess so... except Christ was born from a virgin woman and the other was created from a rock. Some of the stuff is just blantant lies, for anyone that actually studied it.
As far as Constantine, you are showing your ignorance- he had no control over Christianity. All he did was legalize Christianity and ask that the Church's hierarchy meet to set firm doctrine so that everyone throughout the empire could know what they believe: hence, Nicene Creed.
Your information is right up there with JFK, UFOs and other conspiracies. I'm sure you can find out where Elvis is living right now if you do enough 'research'.
S
stray bullet
Guest
Georges said:
If you are talking about Gnostic Christianity, it was begun by Magus. The idea that he was a contemporary of the apostles is nonsense, from the noncanonical stories of the various Acts of specific apostles, like the "Acts of Peter and Paul". Where he went to Rome (and was see as the bad guy, btw) and battled with the apostles.
Simon Magus was not the first Pope, Peter the apostle was, the first "Pope" or "Bishop of Rome". If you knew your Christian history, you'd know that four of the apostles established Sees. One was Antioch, which was founded by Peter, who also later also established the See of Rome (Vatican). Others established were Alexandria by Mark, Jerusalem by James and Constantinople by Andrew. Peter's successor as Bishop of Rome (Pope) was Linus.
The Church did not 'move', it simply established its head See in Rome, because that is where Peter went. James and his successors, the various patriarches, remained in Jerusalem.
This 'some speculate' nonsense is just a bunch of loopy history revisionism and wacko theories.
G
Georges
Guest
stray bullet said:Georges said:
Yeh...right...
any research into Mithraism will show a great deal in common....hello, Constantine....
What research? Reading webpages from people uninformed or with an axe to grind about Christian? Why don't you seriously study up on the religion and not just the books that compare.
They come up with nonsense like, "in both religions, the hero is born of a virgin". Well, I guess so... except Christ was born from a virgin woman and the other was created from a rock. Some of the stuff is just blantant lies, for anyone that actually studied it.
As far as Constantine, you are showing your ignorance- he had no control over Christianity. All he did was legalize Christianity and ask that the Church's hierarchy meet to set firm doctrine so that everyone throughout the empire could know what they believe: hence, Nicene Creed.
Your information is right up there with JFK, UFOs and other conspiracies. I'm sure you can find out where Elvis is living right now if you do enough 'research'.[/quote:e3e85]
Caught you in 2 mistruths and I'm ignorant......
I'm ignorant and you are intellectually dishonest....what a pair.