Do the dead visit us.

[Frances]

Obviously they were not dead.

It was God's and Christ's decision on who are to be with them in heaven. These people were followers and teachers, not part of the masses. Our time will come. JLB. your right!

 

[Frances]

No, the dead are dead and do not come to us. The story of Saul is a good example.

1 Samuel 28:12-20 this women used a familiar spirit that took on the form of Samuel as this is why the scripture says Samuel spoke. Look closely at vs. 14, Saul ask what form is he of and the women describe the form and Saul stooped with his face to the ground and bowed himself before the form, not actually seeing it, but only perceiving it was Samuel. The familiar spirit only spoke of things that Saul already knew about God being quiet and why He was quiet toward Saul. The familiar spirit never gave Saul an answer of what he should do. Then the familiar spirit proceeded to tell Saul what was about to happen to him and his sons that they would be in the ground from whence the familiar spirit came from.

Saul is now in his grave waiting that of the lake of fire as his name is not written in the Lambs book of life, but will face Gods judgement for being an abomination to God. God rejected Saul for his disobedience against Him.

1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
1 Chronicles 10:14 And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.

Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 18:9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Deuteronomy 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Deuteronomy 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Ephesians 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit, which means, angels are spirit with no form. Jesus was made a quickening Spirit and it is that Spirit that went and preached to those spirits in prison. Notice the capital S and small s. Jesus' proclamation was to the fallen angels, not to human beings as this is a reference to the fallen angels who are symbolically in chains that left their first estate that was heaven, Jude 1:6. If you notice it says prison, not hell, Hades, Tartarus or even the lake of fire. What Jesus preached to them was the fact that He now had the victory over death and the demons could no longer have any victory over those who are in Christ.

It was only when Jesus ascended to the Father that he had the power and authority to speak to those angels that were captive and bound and let them know (preached) that they are subject to Him now. It's that same power and authority that Jesus has now that he has given some apostles, prophets, Evangelist, pastors and teachers, Matthew 28:18. Lower parts of the earth only means that of the earth under our feet as in grave/ground. Ephesians 4:8-13

Noah suffered for well doing as he did preach God to others well after the sons of God had taken them wives and had children with them. Noah was the only one who found favor in the Lord. In Gods longsuffering, even though it repented God that he created man because of the evil found in their hearts he found favor in just one man and that was Noah. It wasn't Jesus that physically preached in the times of Noah, but that of Gods very Spirit, the same Spirit that is Jesus as God come in the flesh/word made flesh and spoke through Noah. These angels that are spoken of in 1 Peter 3:19, 20 are the sons (angels) of God that had fallen, but different then the ones who fell with Satan.

It is those angels we see imprisoned and bound in chains (not literal chains only metaphorically and no one knows where they are bound) that Jesus, after he ascended to the Father revealed his power and authority that they are now subject until him. The word prison takes on different meanings for how we use this word. It's like when we say we are imprisoned by how we feel trapped at times as we feel the world crashing down around us. The world isn't literally crashing down and prison is only a state of mind.

The familiar spirit taking on the form of Samuel was not the real Samuel as we read in John 3:13 that no one is in heaven other than God, his holy angels and Jesus. The women saw gods come up from the ground and Saul asked what form he was of and the women described the form and Saul only perceived it was Samuel by the description, but never looked up to see if it was Samuel. Remember, Saul had his face bowed down to the ground and never looked up, but only perceived it to be Samuel by the way the women described what she saw.

The familiar spirit took on the form of Samuel and spoke using the voice of Samuel as this is why Saul recognized his voice and believed it was actually Samuel that spoke. The familiar spirit spoke to Saul and asked why he was asking Samuel what to do seeing that God had already departed from Saul and had become Saul's enemy and then the familiar spirit explained to Saul what would happen and that Saul and his sons would be killed and put into the ground/grave. Just as the familiar spirit who will be cast into the lake of fire so will Saul and his sons as he went against God and God shut himself off from Saul for his disobedience. This is why the familiar spirit told Saul that he and his sons would be with him after they die, meaning they to will be cast into the lake of fire as their names are not written in the Lambs book of life and will face the judgement of God. 1 Samuel 28:15-20.

When we read scripture word for word and not sentence by sentence or chapter by chapter then we find the meat of the message that leads to all truth of Gods word.

1 Samuel 25:15 The familiar spirit only repeated that of what Saul told him except his prediction of Saul's death as IMO the familiar spirit knew what happens to those who have familiar spirits and those who pursue after them and that Saul would probably go into battles the next day as the Philistines were ready to attack. Leviticus 19:31; 20:6, 27; 1Chronicles 10:13 are Gods warnings about those with familiar spirits.

You answered that question quite thoroughly. Your quite right in that not just one scripture always answer our questions, we must read comparable ones. I have been at fault in that regard, but over the last few years I take the time to clarify that questions I have. When we don't continually read the Bible, it is to easy to fall prey to those whom have non scriptural thoughts and can lead you astray. To me, that is what is happening today.

 

[Frances]

Not quite dead.

Mark 12:27
27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.../

Amen to this Edward.

 

[JLB]

Moses was dead

Deuteronomy 34:7 Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died; his sight was unimpaired and his vigour had not abated

But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" Jude 1:9

God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


Moses body may have died, but as we can see Moses was alive. We also know Elijah did not die.



JLB

 

[JLB]

It was God's and Christ's decision on who are to be with them in heaven. These people were followers and teachers, not part of the masses. Our time will come. JLB. your right!

Amen.

 

[Frances]

Obviously they were not dead.

How do you justify your belief? The scriptures that I mentioned do not uphold that belief. Food for thought: Can you imagine how many spirits would be visiting their relatives over the last few thousand years. Since the dead will not be risen until the 2nd coming of Christ, how do you explain those apparitions?

 

[Frances]

I totally disagree. Not all are demon. Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus on the mount of transfiguration and they. Matthew 17:1-8

What about the dead people hat came back to life after many days. I believe these people are somehow strong to appeal if they could force their way back to life and get disappointed when their loved ones get scared of them if they try to send a message. I believe in ressurection after death.

Some people came back to life after being dead because they have grim persistence in hope that they can still return to life. After death is judgement but when a death process is not fully complete, the person still remain hopeful and tries to force their way back to life. There are some who remain at coma for many years but refused to die because they have hope and show tenacity of returning to life but somehow their spirit is almost gone out of their body.

Have you heard about people who were dead but reportedly seen living in other places where they were not known?

In Act 9:39-40 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

Meanwhile, Philip found himself farther north at the town of Azotus. He preached the Good News there and in every town along the way until he came to Caesarea. Act 9:39-40

I have heard many stories about dead people living among the living. A lady told me he met a man and when he checked the mirror he could not see his head but in reality his head was there but she kept cool as if shd didn't see anything. So I believe there is
ressurrection of life. Like Philip in the Bible some people may not have the opportunity to live before they disappear to other place but could do so after death provided their death process is no not complete they still have chance to live.

No, but these miracles happened when God was leading his people to salvation, before his Son came. Yes, we have all heard people say that, we all have someone who looks like us or very similar. I met a girl at another school in another state and when going with my cousin people we saying hello to me and called me by her name. When I met her, it was like looking in a mirror. Who knows, genes from way back. As far as Act 9:39-40. What is your point?

 

[Frances]

Amen to this Edward.

God of the dead and living.

In the context of the quote, Jesus was answering a member of the sect of Sadducees, that did not believe in the resurrection of the dead.(see Matt 22:23-22:33; Acts 23:8) These were mostly priests. Jesus was teaching that life continues after the physical body dies or is put off. To illustrate this fact He used the Name given to Moses; the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.(Ex 3:15) Jesus was showing that while the Sadducees had read the Scriptures, they did not have full understanding. Death is not the ceasing of physical life rather it is separation from God. This is made more clear when comparing the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Lk 16:19-31. As scholars of the Torah or Old Testament, the priestly class would also be familiar with the book of Ezekiel which clearly teaches that the soul of the sinner shall die but that God wants the sinner to repent and live.(Ez 18:20-32)

 

[JLB]

Since the dead will not be risen until the 2nd coming of Christ, how do you explain those apparitions?

First of all, at His coming, the bodies of the dead in Christ will be raised, not the spirits.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8



The spirit of a born again Christian, is present with the Lord, when their body dies, and will return with the Lord at His coming, in which they will be joined with their resurrected body, and then those who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17



JLB

 

[JLB]

Can you imagine how many spirits would be visiting their relatives over the last few thousand years.

Zero.

 

[daninthelionsden]

First of all, at His coming, the bodies of the dead in Christ will be raised, not the spirits.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8



The spirit of a born again Christian, is present with the Lord, when their body dies, and will return with the Lord at His coming, in which they will be joined with their resurrected body, and then those who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17



JLB

Ugh. I hope I am not too far off, theologically speaking, on my story line in my book regarding the afterlife. I am no theologian.

 

[Shema]

No, but these miracles happened when God was leading his people to salvation, before his Son came. Yes, we have all heard people say that, we all have someone who looks like us or very similar. I met a girl at another school in another state and when going with my cousin people we saying hello to me and called me by her name. When I met her, it was like looking in a mirror. Who knows, genes from way back. As far as Act 9:39-40. What is your point?

You can see that in Act 9:39-40 Dorcas was only sleeping but not dead. Such person can still live. 1. By anointed instructions to ressurect 2. By appeal of relatives 3. By strong will.

In Philippians 1:23-24 Paul said " I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

One thing is true for a Child of God who walked with God and knows mystery. If such person die they only sleep.

 

[Shema]

God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


Moses body may have died, but as we can see Moses was alive. We also know Elijah did not die.



JLB

Death of a Saint is not termed as death but sleep. Any one who is a child of God who dies still lives on. Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. What are you saying? That any dead relatives who is a born again Christian cannot come to visit?

And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. Romans 8:11

 

[Shema]

The Bible says in 1 John 3:2

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Has Christ yet been revealed to you or do you want him to appear on the sky?

So far the Spirit of God is truly in you. When mortal death comes you will automatically be turned into an angelic creature or you sleep. In short if you walk with God, you might not see death like Enoch and Elijah.

 

[Shema]

Finally to buttress my point. A Child of God filled with the Holy Spirit when dying still thinks they are sleeping. They were dreaming in their sleep while people in the real world are crying and weeping. By the time they wake up, they might migrated or wake up as a new born babies.

 

[JLB]

That any dead relatives who is a born again Christian cannot come to visit?

If they are with God in heaven, why would they come visit?

God has given us angels to watch over us, and He has given us His Spirit to dwell in us.


This belief can open the door for familiar spirits to masquerade as dead relatives. This is how palm readers and spiritist’s get money from unwitting people, Christian’s included.



JLB

 

[theMadJW]

Religion takes "dead" and transforms into "living". The Bible says we all go to hell (the grave), and ends up showing it's release: Rev 20: 13- And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.