Do We Need to Keep the Sabbath (The LORD's Day) Holy?

[watchman F]

Those who teach commandment breaking say that the fault with the Old Covenant rested with the Ten Commandments, and that under the New Covenant that fault--the commandments--has been done away. Ask yourself this question: When the Old Covenant was put in force and Israel broke the Second Commandment by worshiping false gods, whose fault was it?
Was it Yahweh's fault for saying, "Don't worship any idols?" Or was it Israel's fault for turning to paganism?

Was the problem with the Heavenly Father or with carnal Israel?
Obviously it was Israel's fault. Yahweh said, "And I gave them my statutes, and showed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am Yahweh that sanctifies them. But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my Sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them," Ezekiel 20: 11-13.

Yahweh didn't think it was His fault. The problem with the Old Covenant was not the Heavenly Father and His perfect law. "The law of Yahweh is perfect, converting the soul," Psalm 19:7.
After Israel began breaking the Old Covenant, Yahweh gave them a system of mandatory sacrifices to remind them of their continuing sins. Jeremiah 7:22 explains this:

"For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices; but this thing commanded I them, saying, 'Obey My voice, and I will be your Elohim, and you shall be My people: and walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.'"
Paul spoke about this added law of sin sacrifices when he said, "Wherefore then serves the law? It was added because of transgressions till the seed should come to whom the promise was made," Galatians 3:19.

What law was added because of transgressions? Not the Ten Commandments. The sacrificial law was added because of Israel's sins, but only until the coming of the eternal sacrifice, Yahshua the Messiah.
With the death of Yahshua the Messiah, the sacrificial laws ended for us today. Did the Messiah also do away with the Ten Commandments?
Why would Yahshua take away the commandments His beloved Father had given? Had the Father made a mistake?

Because sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), if the Ten Commandments had ended, how could we even sin today? Why would the Messiah die for our transgressions when there would be no law to transgress?
Since the law was perfect and the people imperfect, why not change the people?

If there is no law there is no sin. The Holy Spirit does not replace the law; the Holy Spirit enables us to keep the law.

Amen perfectly stated.

 

[glorydaz]

This is a gray area for me...
But here's how I see it, from the beginning of creation God sanctified the seventh day and made it holy.
Genesis 2:3. This blessing of the seventh day is something that has always been a day that was set apart by God and made special by Him since the beginning regardless of it appearing in the law of Moses.

If I'm not mistaken Hebrews 4 seems to indicate that the sabbath day points to the rest that we have in Jesus Christ, that we cease from our works of the law. If we obey the sabbath by resting on it this seems to indicate symbolically that we are entering the rest Christ established for us. I don't see a problem with obeying this law.

Now if the law pointed to something like the Passover which required animal sacrifice and was fulfilled by Jesus Christ being our true sacrifice then I don't think this is something that we need to obey anymore.

You're right about our having entered into the Sabbath rest.

You'll notice, though, that none of the great men of God observed the Sabbath before it was given to Moses and the children of Israel. It was a sign given specifically to them to commemorate their release from bondage in Egypt.

The "today" spoken of here is the day of salvation. Joshua couldn't give them the rest...but Jesus did.

It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

 

[glorydaz]

Those who teach commandment breaking say that the fault with the Old Covenant rested with the Ten Commandments, and that under the New Covenant that fault--the commandments--has been done away. Ask yourself this question: When the Old Covenant was put in force and Israel broke the Second Commandment by worshiping false gods, whose fault was it?
Was it Yahweh's fault for saying, "Don't worship any idols?" Or was it Israel's fault for turning to paganism?

Was the problem with the Heavenly Father or with carnal Israel?
Obviously it was Israel's fault. Yahweh said, "And I gave them my statutes, and showed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am Yahweh that sanctifies them. But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my Sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them," Ezekiel 20: 11-13.

Yahweh didn't think it was His fault. The problem with the Old Covenant was not the Heavenly Father and His perfect law. "The law of Yahweh is perfect, converting the soul," Psalm 19:7.
After Israel began breaking the Old Covenant, Yahweh gave them a system of mandatory sacrifices to remind them of their continuing sins. Jeremiah 7:22 explains this:

"For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices; but this thing commanded I them, saying, 'Obey My voice, and I will be your Elohim, and you shall be My people: and walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.'"
Paul spoke about this added law of sin sacrifices when he said, "Wherefore then serves the law? It was added because of transgressions till the seed should come to whom the promise was made," Galatians 3:19.

What law was added because of transgressions? Not the Ten Commandments. The sacrificial law was added because of Israel's sins, but only until the coming of the eternal sacrifice, Yahshua the Messiah.
With the death of Yahshua the Messiah, the sacrificial laws ended for us today. Did the Messiah also do away with the Ten Commandments?
Why would Yahshua take away the commandments His beloved Father had given? Had the Father made a mistake?

Because sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), if the Ten Commandments had ended, how could we even sin today? Why would the Messiah die for our transgressions when there would be no law to transgress?
Since the law was perfect and the people imperfect, why not change the people?

If there is no law there is no sin. The Holy Spirit does not replace the law; the Holy Spirit enables us to keep the law.

Jesus fulfilled the law. The Ten Commandments say, "Thou shalt not kill." Jesus says if you're angry with your brother you are guilty of murder. The 10 say, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Jesus says, "If you look at a woman with lust in your eyes, you've committed adultery already in your heart." The 10 were for the outer man, and Jesus has given us a greater burden, because He looks at our heart. If someone puts themselves under the Stone Law, they are giving themselves license to sin.

 

[change]

In one of his many prophecies about the coming servant of Yahweh, Isaiah prophesied, "He will magnify the law, and make it honorable," Isaiah 42:21. Not destroy the law, but magnify it!
In Matthew 5, after Yahshua declared that He wasn't going to destroy the law, he proceeded to magnify it. "You have heard that it was said by them of old time, 'You shall not kill;'...But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment," Matthew 5:21-22.

A hard-hearted Israelite might have hated his neighbor for years, but unless he actually killed him, he was thought to be keeping the Sixth Commandment. Under the expanded Sixth Commandment, not only can you not kill your neighbor, you can't even desire to!
Yahshua went on: "You have heard that it was said by them of old time, You shall not commit adultery: But I say unto you, that whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart," Matthew 5:27-28.
The commandment against adultery, instead of being done away, now prohibits even setting your mind on such a thing.

As Isaiah prophesied, Yahshua certainly magnified the law. He didn't end His Father's command¬ments, He made them broader and more inclusive. Today, the called-out ones, spiritual Israel, have to obey these commandments. They observe them not just with an outward show but from the innermost being, in spirit and in truth.
Yahshua said, "I have kept My Father's commandments," (John 15:10), and He was our example (1 Pet. 2:21). We may choose to follow his example and obey the commandments or we follow the example of rebellious Israel and disobey them.

Christ fulfill the sacrificial law by becoming the ultimate sacrifice for sin (transgression of the law).

 

[Drew]

You are not answering my question why is ok to break the 4th commandment, but sin to break any of the other 9?

It is sin to commit murder, adultery, etc. But it is not sinful because of the existence of the commandment, it is sinful because it grieves the Holy Spirit.

Your question starts from a premise that the Bible does not allow - that the 10 commandments are still in force as a prescriptive guide for human behaviours.

They are not. Paul is quite clear about this - all of the Law of Moses has been retired. Does that mean its ok to rob a bank? Or cheat on your wife? Or disrespect the special significance of the Sabbath?

Of course not.

 

[change]

They are not. Paul is quite clear about this - all of the Law of Moses has been retired. Does that mean its ok to rob a bank? Or cheat on your wife? Or disrespect the special significance of the Sabbath?

Of course not.[/quote]

Can you quote which scriptures Paul used to make it clear that the ten commandment is retired. If the law is retired Christ is retired. 'sin is the transgression of the law'; Christ died for our sins.

 

[Eccl12and13]

God's laws are for anyone that CHOOSES to serve Him. We are the servants, while He is the master. We must serve God the way HE tells us. We cannot pick and choose the way to serve God.

If by "God's laws", you are referring to the Law of Moses, then I disagree. The Bible is quite clear on this - the Law of Moses was for Jews only (as well as those non-Jews who were integrated into their society. In any event, the Law of Moses was abolished at the cross.

So it now applies to no one.

Really?

So tell me......can I come over to your house and help my self to EVERYTHING in it....oh yeah...EVERYTHING! Can I take your car? Lie on you? Covet what you have, all because YOU say the law now applies to no one?

Well.....can I?

Also....you said the law was for the non-Jews who were intergrated, but is not a non-Jew a non-Jew no matter where they reside? If the non-Jews left did they still not fear God? And if they feared God would they not still keep His commandments no matter where they lived?

Let me ask you this....Do you think Jesus will demand we keep His laws during His 1000yr rule? Of course He will! And do you think those laws will change? Of course not!

So please....by all means do what you will. But if you are so blessed to be with Jesus during His rule over this earth you WILL obey and keep ALL of His commandments.

.

.

 

[watchman F]

You are not answering my question why is ok to break the 4th commandment, but sin to break any of the other 9?

It is sin to commit murder, adultery, etc. But it is not sinful because of the existence of the commandment, it is sinful because it grieves the Holy Spirit.

Your question starts from a premise that the Bible does not allow - that the 10 commandments are still in force as a prescriptive guide for human behaviours.

They are not. Paul is quite clear about this - all of the Law of Moses has been retired. Does that mean its ok to rob a bank? Or cheat on your wife? Or disrespect the special significance of the Sabbath?

Of course not.

Nor can you forsake the Sabbath.

 

[handy]

We know that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Why? Why was the Sabbath part of the Law in the first place.

It was a day of rest, right? It was a very practical, merciful day in which all, man and beast, were able to rest and spend time in worship.

As it has been pointed out, Jesus expanded on the narrow definitions given by the 10 Commandments: Not only are we not to murder, we aren't even to disrespect others in an angry manner. Not only are we not to commit adultery, we aren't even to lust.

So, how did the concept of the Sabbath, the rest for God's children, get expanded?

I truly believe the answer is found in Hebrews 4. I believe that the Sabbath, which was made for man, was a type and foreshadow (for the Law was a foreshadow) of nothing less than our salvation.

Hebrews 3:12 states: "Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living Christ." The writer then goes on to speak of how the Israelites fell away due to unbelief in the desert and therefore were not able to enter into God's "rest", the Promised Land.

In Chapter 4 the writer states: He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before, 'Today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.' For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.

There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His."

If we have entered into His rest, that is, if we have left the works of the Law and entered into the finished work of the cross, via faith and have our sins forgiven, then we are in the Sabbath. This is why Paul was able to say to the Colossians, "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day - things which are a mere shadow of what is to come: but the substance belongs to Christ."(Col 2:16-17)


Also, Paul said to the Galatians, "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain." (Gal 4:9-12)

So, no, we don't have to observe the old Sabbath day laws, anymore than we have to observe any other part of the law, other than what the Holy Spirit writes upon our hearts. The Law of Christ, to love God with all your heart, mind and soul and to love your neighbor as you love yourself, is the only law we need to follow.

 

[change]

The first four commandments show how to love the Father in Heaven. If you love Him you will have no other elohim and take part in no idolatrous worship, and you will honor His Name and remember His Sabbaths. The last six commandments show how to love our fellow human beings.

"Honor your father and your mother: that your days may be long upon the land which Yahweh your Elohim gives you."


"You shall not murder."


"You shall not commit adultery.â€

"You shall not steal."


"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."


"You shall not covet your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is your neighbor's," Exodus 20: 12-17.

If you love your parents, do you show your love by dishonoring them? Would you show love to a neighbor by killing him, stealing his mate, stealing his goods, lying to him or even just wishing to take what is his? No. You show love to your neighbor by obeying the Ten Commandments.

Doesn't this make you wonder why so many of the world's religions rail against the Ten Command­ments? What's wrong with not killing someone? Nothing! What's wrong with observing the true Sabbath day instead of the day of the sun? Nothing! But something is wrong with religions that despise the Heavenly Father's instructions.

The Two Great Commandments

Yahshua the Messiah was once asked, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?â€

Yahshua said unto him, “‘You shall love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets,†Matthew 22:36-40.

Yahshua here quoted the Old Testament to explain the basis for the Ten Commandments: to love Yahweh and to love our fellow human beings. The Ten Commandments show how to do this. As Paul summed it up, "Love is the fulfilling of the law," Romans 13:10.

The Hebrews were given a beautiful lesson in living, uttered by the thunderous voice of the Almighty while the mountain smoked and shook. Israel promised to obey Yahweh and Yahweh promised to bless them above all nations. In Exodus 19:5 Yahweh pledged, "Now, therefore, if you will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people." In Exodus 24:7, Moses "took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, 'All that Yahweh has said will we do, and be obedient.'" This was the making of the Old Covenant, an agreement between Yahweh and Israel.

Was Paul contradicting Jesus? NO! Jesus said, "Whosoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men to do so, shall be least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven"(Matthew 5:19). Collosians 2:16-17 and Galatians 4:9-12 are not talking about the last day of the week; these verses are talking about the ceromonial sabbaths of Leviticus 23.

 

[handy]

"Now, therefore, if you will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people." In Exodus 24:7, Moses "took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, 'All that Yahweh has said will we do, and be obedient.'" This was the making of the Old Covenant, an agreement between Yahweh and Israel.

Only they were not obedient. And the Old Covenant, was a shadow, a copy of what was to come, became obsolete. The Old Covenant was not an everlasting covenant. As the writer to the Hebrews explains:

For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD. DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT..."
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old, is ready to disappear. (Hebrews 8:7-9; 13)

We need to always remember, never forget, that we are under the new covenant. We have been instructed, over and over in the epistles not to place the burden of the Law on anyone. The old covenant was sealed by the blood of sheep and goats. The new covenant was sealed by nothing less than the blood of our Lord. Moses had the Law, we have the Royal Law, that we are to love God with all our heart, and love our neighbors as ourselves. This is the Law that we have and we are not to put anyone under the burden of the old covenant which has passed away ever again.

 

[glorydaz]

"Now, therefore, if you will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then you shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people." In Exodus 24:7, Moses "took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, 'All that Yahweh has said will we do, and be obedient.'" This was the making of the Old Covenant, an agreement between Yahweh and Israel.

Only they were not obedient. And the Old Covenant, was a shadow, a copy of what was to come, became obsolete. The Old Covenant was not an everlasting covenant. As the writer to the Hebrews explains:

For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD. DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT..."
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old, is ready to disappear. (Hebrews 8:7-9; 13)

We need to always remember, never forget, that we are under the new covenant. We have been instructed, over and over in the epistles not to place the burden of the Law on anyone. The old covenant was sealed by the blood of sheep and goats. The new covenant was sealed by nothing less than the blood of our Lord. Moses had the Law, we have the Royal Law, that we are to love God with all our heart, and love our neighbors as ourselves. This is the Law that we have and we are not to put anyone under the burden of the old covenant which has passed away ever again.

:amen Those still under the Stone law still have a heart of stone. Believers have been given a heart of flesh, and Jesus' commandments are written there. They go way beyond the laws of stone. We now have the Law of Christ (which is grace and truth), not the law of Moses. That's the new and better Covenant.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[change]

We need to be able to differentiate what is sinful from what is righteous. The Bible’s definition of sin is – “sin is the transgression of the law†(1 John 3:4). How can we tell when we sin? Many people prescribed and assumed what sin is, but if we are not using God’s words to arrive at a conclusion then we are in variation with our creator.

The apostle Paul knew what sin is – “By the law is the knowledge of sin†(Roman 3:30). “I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, ‘thou shall not covet’†(Roman 7:7).

The law is like a mirror (James 1:23-25). It points out sins in our lives as a mirror points out dirt on our faces.

WHY do we hate God’s law? - “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.†(Roman 8:7) “Let this mind be in you, which was in Christ Jesus†(Philippians 2:5). Jesus did not break the law (sin), in fact, Jesus teaches us not to sin (break God’s law) - Matthew 5:19.

In the old covenant was it the law that was at fault? Certainly not:

“ Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and good. Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin (breaking the law), … was producing death in me … For we know the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sinâ€( Roman 7:12-14).
In the old covenant the instant punishment for sins like murder, etc was against us. (Colossians 2:14)

Here are some of the penalties of the law:

Num. 35:30, 31 "Whoever killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses, but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to dieâ€

Ex. 21:15, 17 "Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death. Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death."

The system under the Levitical priesthood is what is referred to as the Old Covenant. Christ and his priesthood is the New Covenant. There were faults with the old priesthood and sacrifices, the new sacrifice (Christ) is perfect and his priesthood is perfect.

People say the law is abolished, but this is contrary to what the Bible says:
“Do we then make void the law through faih? GOD FORBID: yea we establish the law†(Roman 3:31).

 

[Tina]

We need to be able to differentiate what is sinful from what is righteous. The Bible’s definition of sin is – “sin is the transgression of the law†(1 John 3:4). How can we tell when we sin? Many people prescribed and assumed what sin is, but if we are not using God’s words to arrive at a conclusion then we are in variation with our creator.

The apostle Paul knew what sin is – “By the law is the knowledge of sin†(Roman 3:30). “I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, ‘thou shall not covet’†(Roman 7:7).

The law is like a mirror (James 1:23-25). It points out sins in our lives as a mirror points out dirt on our faces.

WHY do we hate God’s law? - “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.†(Roman 8:7) “Let this mind be in you, which was in Christ Jesus†(Philippians 2:5). Jesus did not break the law (sin), in fact, Jesus teaches us not to sin (break God’s law) - Matthew 5:19.

In the old covenant was it the law that was at fault? Certainly not:

“ Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and good. Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin (breaking the law), … was producing death in me … For we know the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sinâ€( Roman 7:12-14).
In the old covenant the instant punishment for sins like murder, etc was against us. (Colossians 2:14)

Here are some of the penalties of the law:

Num. 35:30, 31 "Whoever killeth any person, the murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses, but one witness shall not testify against any person to cause him to dieâ€

Ex. 21:15, 17 "Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death. Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death."

The system under the Levitical priesthood is what is referred to as the Old Covenant. Christ and his priesthood is the New Covenant. There were faults with the old priesthood and sacrifices, the new sacrifice (Christ) is perfect and his priesthood is perfect.

People say the law is abolished, but this is contrary to what the Bible says:
“Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea we establish the law†(Roman 3:31).

What is your point ? What are you trying to say .... Do we or do we not keep the Sabbath holy?

What exactly do you mean by "holy" ?

And based on your understanding, which day or days is the Sabbath today ??

 

[handy]

People say the law is abolished, but this is contrary to what the Bible says:
“Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea we establish the law†(Roman 3:31).

The Law of Moses was not abolished, it was fulfilled. There is a difference. To say that it was abolished means that it was done away with, thrown out. To say that it was fulfilled means that its purposed was accomplished. Prior to Pentecost, the faithful did not have the Holy Spirit, except by the means of the Law. Now, as those whose sins are forgiven through the shed blood of Christ we have (as glorydaz mentioned) the law written upon our hearts and the Holy Spirit to guide us. Yes, by all means, we need God's word, but not the old covenant forced upon us.

Since Change brought up Romans, let's look more closely at what Romans tells us about the Law. Paul tells us in Romans that we are not saved by works of the law but by faith. The Law was never, could never be about our righteouness in keeping it, but about God's faithfulness as Paul says in Chapter 3:1-10:

Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.
What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
"THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS,
AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED."

But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.) May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world? But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner? And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; for as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one..."

Paul then goes on to explain that those who have been justified, have always been justified because of faith, not by works of the Law. The Law had its purpose: that of being our tutor in what sin is.

However, as Paul speaks and speaks clearly of the role of the Law, he is adamant (not Paul, but the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul) that we are never to consider ourselves under the Law, for the Law has been fulfilled in Christ.

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. 7:6

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 8:1-4

For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 10:4

The Scriptures do not tell us anywhere that the Law is abolished, no. But, the Holy Spirit is quite clear that the Law has been fulfilled and that we are no longer under it, Christ is indeed the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So then, the Law having been fulfilled, and is now at an end for all who believe, are we to put others under it, when no one, not the Jews of old, nor we ourselves, have ever been able to keep it? Of course not!

How then do we go on? As Change asked, "How can we tell when we sin?" Sin is transgression of the Law, but how? Not by violating the letter, by not observing a certain day, or by eating a certain meat, but by offending the Spirit. Since we have the Spirit, then the Spirit will convict us regarding our transgressions.

This is why Paul tells us (again not Paul, but the Holy Spirit), "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convicted in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God..." 14:5-6

If one wants to follow the old Sabbath for the Lord, fine and good! If one wants to observe Sunday as a day set apart for worship and congregation, great! If one regards all days alike, but yet strives to not neglect gathering with God's people for worship and edification, that's fine too. Let all be convicted in their own mind how they serve their Master. For "if we live, we live for the Lord, if we die, we die for the Lord, therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's" 14:8

BUT you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God." So then, each one of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another any more, but rather determine this - not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way. 14:10-13

Since we have been released from the Law, and since we have the Spirit, let us be convinced in our own mind what we should do regarding the Sabbath or what to eat or what to drink, but let us never judge or condemn another for what they do regarding these issues.

 

[Eccl12and13]

I'll ask the same question I asked Drew, who never got back with me;

For those that believe God's laws are no longer valid and applies to no one, let me ask you the following,

So tell me......can I come over to your house and help my self to EVERYTHING in it....oh yeah...EVERYTHING! Can I take your car? Lie on you? Covet what you have, all because YOU say the law now applies to no one?

Well.....can I?

Also....some say the law was for the non-Jews who were intergrated, but is not a "non-Jew" still a "non-Jew" no matter where they reside? If the non-Jews left did they still not fear God? And if they feared God would they not still keep His commandments no matter where they lived?

Let me ask you this....Do you think Jesus will demand we keep His laws during His 1000yr rule? Of course He will! And do you think those laws will change? Of course not! That means His Moral Laws, Feast day laws, Dietary laws ALL will be kept. If not you WILL be punished!!!!

So please....by all means do what you will. But if you are so blessed to be with Jesus during His rule over this earth you WILL obey and keep ALL of His commandments.


.

 

[glorydaz]

I'll ask the same question I asked Drew, who never got back with me;

For those that believe God's laws are no longer valid and applies to no one, let me ask you the following,

So tell me......can I come over to your house and help my self to EVERYTHING in it....oh yeah...EVERYTHING! Can I take your car? Lie on you? Covet what you have, all because YOU say the law now applies to no one?

Well.....can I?

Some of us obey the Lord...whatever He commands us to do. We have the Word written on our hearts. There are over 600 commandments given by Jesus. If you would rather obey the Stone Law, you are taking the easy route. If you insist on keeping the Law of Moses, you can not fail in even one point.

By having the Holy Spirit in our hearts, we go beyond any rule or regulation. When He says "Go and do such and such", we go. It may be something that is never required by any set of rules and regulations. All the law and prophets hangs on just two....Love God and love your neighbor. When we do that, we are obeying the Law of Christ. It's really quite simple. I'm not sure why you want to make it so hard.

 

[glorydaz]

People say the law is abolished, but this is contrary to what the Bible says:
“Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea we establish the law†(Roman 3:31).

The Law of Moses was not abolished, it was fulfilled. There is a difference. To say that it was abolished means that it was done away with, thrown out. To say that it was fulfilled means that its purposed was accomplished. Prior to Pentecost, the faithful did not have the Holy Spirit, except by the means of the Law. Now, as those whose sins are forgiven through the shed blood of Christ we have (as glorydaz mentioned) the law written upon our hearts and the Holy Spirit to guide us. Yes, by all means, we need God's word, but not the old covenant forced upon us.

Since Change brought up Romans, let's look more closely at what Romans tells us about the Law. Paul tells us in Romans that we are not saved by works of the law but by faith. The Law was never, could never be about our righteouness in keeping it, but about God's faithfulness as Paul says in Chapter 3:1-10:

Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.
What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,
"THAT YOU MAY BE JUSTIFIED IN YOUR WORDS,
AND PREVAIL WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED."

But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.) May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world? But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner? And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), "Let us do evil that good may come"? Their condemnation is just.
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; for as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one..."

Paul then goes on to explain that those who have been justified, have always been justified because of faith, not by works of the Law. The Law had its purpose: that of being our tutor in what sin is.

However, as Paul speaks and speaks clearly of the role of the Law, he is adamant (not Paul, but the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul) that we are never to consider ourselves under the Law, for the Law has been fulfilled in Christ.

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. 7:6

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 8:1-4

For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 10:4

The Scriptures do not tell us anywhere that the Law is abolished, no. But, the Holy Spirit is quite clear that the Law has been fulfilled and that we are no longer under it, Christ is indeed the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So then, the Law having been fulfilled, and is now at an end for all who believe, are we to put others under it, when no one, not the Jews of old, nor we ourselves, have ever been able to keep it? Of course not!

How then do we go on? As Change asked, "How can we tell when we sin?" Sin is transgression of the Law, but how? Not by violating the letter, by not observing a certain day, or by eating a certain meat, but by offending the Spirit. Since we have the Spirit, then the Spirit will convict us regarding our transgressions.

This is why Paul tells us (again not Paul, but the Holy Spirit), "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convicted in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God..." 14:5-6

If one wants to follow the old Sabbath for the Lord, fine and good! If one wants to observe Sunday as a day set apart for worship and congregation, great! If one regards all days alike, but yet strives to not neglect gathering with God's people for worship and edification, that's fine too. Let all be convicted in their own mind how they serve their Master. For "if we live, we live for the Lord, if we die, we die for the Lord, therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's" 14:8

BUT you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God." So then, each one of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another any more, but rather determine this - not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way. 14:10-13

Since we have been released from the Law, and since we have the Spirit, let us be convinced in our own mind what we should do regarding the Sabbath or what to eat or what to drink, but let us never judge or condemn another for what they do regarding these issues.

Praise the Lord. I do love it when I hear the Word preached with such clarity. :amen :yes

 

[change]

Christ fulfilled the sacrificial law not the royal law. Christ became the ultimate sacrifice for sin. No more killing of animals to atone for our sins.

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). If there is no law there can be no sin. Christ would've died in vain if there is no sin.
Christ did not fulfill the royal law, he magnified it.

All those quotes from the book of Romans regarding the sabbaths, Paul was not speaking about the Sabbath of the royal law. He spoke concerning the sabbaths of Leveticus chapter 23. The Sabbath of the royal law has nothing to do with meat and drink. The sabbaths of Leveticus are concerned with meat offerings and drink offerings.

Man did not chose the Royal Sabbath; the creator chosed it from creation. Even in heaven the Sabbath will be kept.

Faith does not free us from the law - "Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Roman 3:31)

 

[glorydaz]

Christ fulfilled the sacrificial law not the royal law. Christ became the ultimate sacrifice for sin. No more killing of animals to atone for our sins.

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). If there is no law there can be no sin. Christ would've died in vain if there is no sin.
Christ did not fulfill the royal law, he magnified it.

All those quotes from the book of Romans regarding the sabbaths, Paul was not speaking about the Sabbath of the royal law. He spoke concerning the sabbaths of Leveticus chapter 23. The Sabbath of the royal law has nothing to do with meat and drink. The sabbaths of Leveticus are concerned with meat offerings and drink offerings.

Man did not chose the Royal Sabbath; the creator chosed it from creation. Even in heaven the Sabbath will be kept.

Christ did not die in vain...he died for sin...all sin. No one is saying there isn't sin. There was sin whether we knew it or not. The law only pointed out sin. And Jesus did fulfill the Royal Law. The Royal Law is Love. Greater love hath no man than to lay down His life for his friend...that's what Jesus did on the cross. He fulfilled the law...we couldn't.

The problem with man trying to keep the law is that he can't. When God's Spirit comes to live in us, we are filled with the love of God. God's love pours out through the believer and he is able, not with his own strength, but with God's strength, to fulfill the Royal Law of Love in our lives. Our mind is renewed as we take on the mind of Christ. Only then are we enabled to put into practice the love of God. Our own efforts and our love are never enough. We can strive and strive and never produce the love of God. It has to come through the Holy Spirit. When we are weak, He is strong. When we give up our efforts, then He is able to show His great love through us. He enables us to follow Him and demonstrate His life.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. As we rest in Him, we cease from our "works", so every moment of every day is the Sabbath. The Sabbath will not be "kept" in heaven. You use Isaiah 66, and that is error. If there is a Sabbath...there must also be a celebration of "new moons", and those were shown to be abolished in Col. 2:14-16...just as the Sabbaths are. There is no night in heaven, either, so there will be no "new moons. If there are Sabbaths in heaven there would also have to be the Levitical priesthood...that, too has been done away with.