Do you have demons?

[Imagican]

Ever do something that you knew you shouldn't yet felt an overwhelming compulsion to do it? Ever do something and after suffering the consequences and ask by others why you did it; the only answer you could come up with was, "I don't know"?

 

[Free]

Christians can't "have" demons, but they can be influenced by them.

 

[Sara929]

Christians can't "have" demons, but they can be influenced by them.

:smt023

 

[Blazin Bones]

I concur with the last two 8-) .

 

[Asimov]

Ever do something that you knew you shouldn't yet felt an overwhelming compulsion to do it?

It's called a "want".

Ever do something and after suffering the consequences and ask by others why you did it; the only answer you could come up with was, "I don't know"?

It's called a "lack of strength of will".

 

[Imagican]

So, you guys don't believe that someone that considers themselves to be a 'Christian' could be posessed by demons? I personally find that there have been many people that considered themselves 'Christians' and did much that would indicate that their beliefs were accurate yet were obviously posessed by demons. Jeffery Dahlmer, Mark David Chapman, Jimmy Swaggart, King David, Solomon his son etc, etc,etc...................

So, what you people presume is that you have a so much deeper relationship with God through Christ that you can't be tempted by Satan? Read what Jesus tells you about the man that cleaned up his house, (found the truth), and what happened to him when he became complacent and allowed his demon to return with it's buddies

Is this story Christ told not a true possibility. How many demons did Jesus cast out of Mary?

 

[Imagican]

Christians can't "have" demons, but they can be influenced by them.

Do you have scripture to back up this assumption or do you just offer your opinion?

 

[Imagican]

For those that don't understand the post:

Do demons exist?
Is demon posession possible?
How would one recognize a demon?
What would be the obvious signs of demon posession?
How would a 'Christian' know if they were posessed?
Did Mary or Jesus identify her demons?(in other words, did Mary know she was posessed?)
Would demons allow their host to know that they were there?
How would a demon enter a person?
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if people of a past time when there was much less possible exposure to media and information were capable of being posessed that the people of the present would be much more succeptable now than then?
How many seperate demons could a person be posessed by?
How many demons are serving satan?
If a person claimed to be a 'Christian' yet lived a life of sin would they not be succeptable to demons?
If demonology weren't a much more serious problem than we accept now days why would there have been so much emphasis on 'casting out demons' durring the time of Christ?
Wouldn't demons change with the times and learn just as any other entity?
In other words wouldn't they become more cunning and capable as time advanced?

Just a little food for thought

 

[Free]

So, you guys don't believe that someone that considers themselves to be a 'Christian' could be posessed by demons? I personally find that there have been many people that considered themselves 'Christians' and did much that would indicate that their beliefs were accurate yet were obviously posessed by demons. Jeffery Dahlmer, Mark David Chapman, Jimmy Swaggart, King David, Solomon his son etc, etc,etc...................

How are King David and Solomon Christians? Jeffery Dahlmer likely was possessed but he didn't become a Christian until after the fact. One does not have to be possessed to do what Jimmy Swaggart did; it's called "the flesh". I don't know who Mark Chapman is.

I am curious as to what criteria you use to come to the conclusion these persons "were obviously possessed by demons".

So, what you people presume is that you have a so much deeper relationship with God through Christ that you can't be tempted by Satan?

No one has presumed anything of the sort. Temptation and possession are two completely different things. Everyone is tempted by Satan to do things that one ought not do, but that is a far cry from possession where it is no longer the person who is doing things but a demon.

Christians can't "have" demons, but they can be influenced by them.

Do you have scripture to back up this assumption or do you just offer your opinion?

How can one possibly be filled with the Holy Spirit and be possessed by demons at the same time?

 

[Vice]

As Free stated, possession and temptation are two different things. To blame demons -- or even Satan, for that matter -- for every temptation to which we succumb isn't biblically sensible.

 

[Imagican]

Then I assume that what you guys are saying is that everyone that 'claims' to know Christ does indeed, and that by this knowledge of Christ alone they are immune to demons.

Is there any such thing as a "Christian drunkard"? Or a Christian liar? How about a Christian thief? We would certainly have to define the word 'Christian' to intellegently continue to attempt to answer this question of demon posession.

When Christ teaches the parable of the man cleaning his house and getting rid of his single demon. Isn't this a reference to 'one finding the truth', (Christ)? Then after cleaning his house, (being saved), he then becomes stale in his testimony or faith and through this 'falling away', allows not only the one demon to return but with it seven others? Isn't Christ refering to persons that have found the 'truth' yet slip and allow demons to return? Demons are 'un-clean spirits' right?

From my understanding of the Bible and it's defining of Satan, he is not omnicient or omnipotent. This means that he is limited as to his ability to tempt men except one at a time. Yet his demons are many and don't even need to tempt those that follow the world to start with. Wouldn't Satan's main stuggle be with those that 'claim' to be 'Christians' rather than waste his time manipulating those that already follow him through the world or other religions? Wouldn't his biggest pleasure be to corrupt those that 'claim' to follow Christ?

I open this thread with one objective in mind: to expose the degree to which demons actually exist. If Mary were posessed by seven demons, how many demons could a person actually be posessed by? Seven? Seventy? Seven hundred? If there are enough demons that seven could posess just one person wouldn't that be a clear indication that there are almost an unlimited supply at Satan's command? If these assumptions are true then what are all those demons doing right this moment? Impossible that they may be dwelling in us? How would we know? If they just sat back and learned of our behavior and only subtlily offered suggestions that went along with our lusts to start with, how would we know that we just slipped and that our mistakes were not actually the product of demon posession, (suggestions offered by demons dwelling within us)?

Wouldn't all self-destructive behavior be the product of demon posession? One of Satan's biggest lies is to convince men that 'Satan made me do it'. Satan doesn't have time to spend manipulating those that don't matter in the 'big picture'. He is busy jumping back and forth between those that are creating the world to be, and making it ready for his son. His demons manipulate the populace and would find it an easy job to pull the strings of those that were not on top of their game every second, of every minute, of every day, of every year, throughout their entire lives.

And I asked for scripture to back up the idea that demons can not posess those that 'claim' to be Christians.

 

[Imagican]

So, you guys don't believe that someone that considers themselves to be a 'Christian' could be posessed by demons? I personally find that there have been many people that considered themselves 'Christians' and did much that would indicate that their beliefs were accurate yet were obviously posessed by demons. Jeffery Dahlmer, Mark David Chapman, Jimmy Swaggart, King David, Solomon his son etc, etc,etc...................

How are King David and Solomon Christians? Jeffery Dahlmer likely was possessed but he didn't become a Christian until after the fact. One does not have to be possessed to do what Jimmy Swaggart did; it's called "the flesh". I don't know who Mark Chapman is.

I am curious as to what criteria you use to come to the conclusion these persons "were obviously possessed by demons".

So, what you people presume is that you have a so much deeper relationship with God through Christ that you can't be tempted by Satan?

No one has presumed anything of the sort. Temptation and possession are two completely different things. Everyone is tempted by Satan to do things that one ought not do, but that is a far cry from possession where it is no longer the person who is doing things but a demon.

Christians can't "have" demons, but they can be influenced by them.

Do you have scripture to back up this assumption or do you just offer your opinion?

How can one possibly be filled with the Holy Spirit and be possessed by demons at the same time?

Free,

You obviously missed my point concerning David and his son. David was not only a man after God's own heart but from his seed was Christ born. Solomon, his son, was the man that built God's temple in Isreal and refered to as: 'the wisest man ever'. Regardless of Christ, these were men that were obviously following God, yet...................Were their acts brought about by demons? Are our lusts just rudiments of the flesh or is there something deeper that brings them to our minds and hearts?

If you will study the life of Jeffrey you will find that he was deep into the church at one time and did indeed consider himself to be a Christian, before he decided to eat people or got caught and imprisoned for it. Chapman is the guy who shot John Lennon. Deeply religious for most of his life. He had been a highly respected Christian camp councelor etc..... and then claims that as he pulled the trigger it was like he was standing outside hiimself watching it happen, (like it wasn't even him doing it). He even claims that after entertaining his thoughts of murder he lost all control over his own actions. Yes, these are just words, but what reason would a man have to lie in a confession? Deep stuff.

I contend that often there are those that truly believe they are filled with the Holy Spirit when in fact they are filled with the spirit of Satan or demons. Do you believe that as a Christian you are filled with the Holy Spirit at ALL TIMES? If so, then you are even filled with the Holy Spirit when you lie, or cheat, or think badly of others, when you ingnore the guy pushing his cart down the road with nothing to eat or wear, etc.............

And I offer that Satan does very little tempting on his own. He is concentrating of the leaders of this world and has no time for the rest of us. His demons on the other hand are plentiful and willing. I believe that when the Bible refers to Satan as the tempter that this is a very broad statement in that; through Satan's desire and tools are we tempted. Satan doesn't make us do things, his minions do. Only in our 'self important' minds does Satan even have time to acknowledge our existence unless we are principle players in the 'big picture'.

 

[Imagican]

As Free stated, possession and temptation are two different things. To blame demons -- or even Satan, for that matter -- for every temptation to which we succumb isn't biblically sensible.

Then from a Biblical perspective I would like for you to explain where our temptations come from. Some people are tempted to murder, others are not. Some are tempted to steal, others are not. Some are tempted to do drugs, others not. If not from Satan or his demons then where does the temptation come from. And these people and their temptations don't even consider Christians or not.

Wasn't it Satan that tempted Eve in the garden? Wasn't it Satan that tempted Christ in the desert? These were important times of temptation directed at key players in the relationship with man. Who tempts the rest of us? Ourselves? When the Bible states that 'God does not tempt man', what is indicated here? If God doesn't, then who does?

 

[Asimov]

Do demons exist?

No.

Is demon posession possible?

No.

How would one recognize a demon?

You don't.

What would be the obvious signs of demon posession?

None.

How would a 'Christian' know is they were posessed?

They wouldn't.

Did Mary or Jesus identify her demons?(in other words, did Mary know she was posessed?)

This is a story.

Would demons allow their host to know that they were there?

Demons don't exist.

How would a demon enter a person?

How does Santa Claus get to all the children in one night?

Wouldn't it stand to reason that if people of a past time when there was much less possible exposure to media and information were capable of being posessed that the people of the present would be much more succeptable now than then?

Not if those people were primitives who believed in demon possession...

How many seperate demons could a person be posessed by?

None.

How many demons are serving satan?

None.

If a person claimed to be a 'Christian' yet lived a life of sin would they not be succeptable to demons?

No.

If demonology weren't a much more serious problem than we accept now days why would there have been so much emphasis on 'casting out demons' durring the time of Christ?

Because they were primitives who thought that they were being possessed.

Wouldn't demons change with the times and learn just as any other entity?

Not if they didn't exist.

In other words wouldn't they become more cunning and capable as time advanced?

No.

Just a little food for thought

I'm still hungry.

 

[KnarfKS]

In that post did you contribute anything Asimov...Not really. This is not the place for non-Christians to bash Christianity. If you have a question I'm sure we are fully willing to answer it, but this is not nessasary.

 

[Imagican]

asimov,

Interesting view. i can see now that your future and past posts are not to be taken literally. I thought this was a Christian forum and didn't realize that persons associated with other religions or athiest would find any comfort reading or posting here.

I am totally comfortable with differing views about theology but I would think that an understanding of the Word would be a part of any discussion concerning Christianity.

Good to know where you stand though. Not surprising in the world in which we live that some people would associate Christ with Santa Claus.

 

[Vice]

As Free stated, possession and temptation are two different things. To blame demons -- or even Satan, for that matter -- for every temptation to which we succumb isn't biblically sensible.

Then from a Biblical perspective I would like for you to explain where our temptations come from. Some people are tempted to murder, others are not. Some are tempted to steal, others are not. Some are tempted to do drugs, others not. If not from Satan or his demons then where does the temptation come from. And these people and their temptations don't even consider Christians or not.

Wasn't it Satan that tempted Eve in the garden? Wasn't it Satan that tempted Christ in the desert? These were important times of temptation directed at key players in the relationship with man. Who tempts the rest of us? Ourselves? When the Bible states that 'God does not tempt man', what is indicated here? If God doesn't, then who does?

Sometimes our temptations come from the tempter himself:

Luke 22:31 - "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat...."

1 Peter 5:8 - Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."

There are obvious examples of this in the Bible. Satan tempted Adam and Eve, Satan tempted Jesus, and Satan even tempted Judas to betray Jesus.

However, sometimes our temptations come from around us and within us.

James 1:13-15 - "Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and he himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." (NAS)

Proverbs 1:10 - "My son, if sinners entice you, do not consent."

There are many biblical examples of this as well. Satan didn't have to tempt David in order for David to commit adultery with Bathsheba; his own lust did a fine enough job (2 Samuel 12:9). Demas forsook Paul and his ministry for a more worldly life (2 Tim 4:10). Joseph's brothers were tempted by their own jealously and hate to sell Joseph (Gen.37).



It is up to us to put the above origins of temptation into a modern context. Sure, one can say that Satan and his demons are responsible for tempting people to murder or do drugs. However, I don't think Satan is that dumb.

If I were Satan, I'd be saying, "Why bother wasting my time tempting people to do drugs, murder, fall into sexual sins, etc., when all the conditions conducive to their fall into these sins are already present in society? Why not let them fall into their own temptations and allow them to justify their sins, and why not concentrate on bigger things like building hate and conflict between races in certain parts of the world?"

Just my two cents.

 

[Imagican]

But what about demons. They were obviously present during Jesus' time and were an important enough issue for Christ to empower his apostles to cast them out. Where are they now and what are they doing. Are they running the Churches and is this why they are not mentioned more in these modern times? I mention demons and everybody seems to think that they are a joke or something, yet throughout the Gospels they play a major role.

 

[Free]

Imagican,

I don't think you are understanding what everyone is saying. No one is denying that demons exist or that they can exert influence on us. They can tempt Christians but that is as far as it goes. But as Vice pointed out, we are also tempted by our fleshly desires.

 

[Featherbop]

Of course demons exist. I don't think I've ever witnessed a demon possession(as I understand), but I do beleive I have encountered a couple or so people with some demonic force helping them to do evil.

Now, people don't own demons, and vice versa, the question was sort of strangely put.

Demons do not "take over" the human decision making process of course, those most prone seem to want to do and be influenced by evil. So, perhaps it is their choice if they become "possessed" or not.

Just my opinions.


Marck