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Doctrine Unaware

netchaplain

netchaplain

Member
I believe one of the most important teachings of Scripture is the truth that Christians have no covenant with God, but are recipients of a covenant between the Father and the Son, which is the “Covenant of Redemption”; and its primary theme is Hebrews 13:20: “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant, 21, Make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever, Amen.”

“The Covenant of Redemption is the agreement made between the members of the Trinity in order to bring us salvation. We find allusions to it in several Biblical texts. Under this covenant, the Father plans redemption and sends the Son in order to save His people. The Son agrees to be sent and to do the work necessary to save the elect (John 10:17–18), and the Spirit agrees to apply the work of Christ to us by sealing us unto salvation (Eph 1:13–14). -R. C. Sproul

There is nowhere in Scripture that supports Christians having a covenant with God. When Jesus said "this is My Blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Mat 26:28), it in no way referred to a covenant with man, but with the Father. The covenant that believers have in Christ is the "Everlasting Covenant" (“Covenant of Redemption”), and there is no mention of man's involvement here.

This, for the most part, hasn’t been taught in the Churchs; and it’s my opinion that it will never become a common doctrine among Christians. Of course, this is not essential salvation doctrine, thus believing or disbelieving in it cannot affect one’s salvation, just one’s spiritual growth.

God bless, and God be blessed!

NetChaplain (Robert Hall)
 
This is the new and only covenant of the NT that we as children of God being Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit are under.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
 
for_his_glory said:
This is the new and only covenant of the NT that we as children of God being Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit are under.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
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This is the Covenant that God will eventually make with "the house of Israel and with the house of Judah" (Heb 8:8), which is a reiteration of Hebrews 8. This is a future prophecy of Jer 31:31-34 and Eze 36:22-28 that will be established for the Jews who believe in God (Jn14:1) in the Millennium. This new Covenant will still involve "law" (Jer 32:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27). Israel and Judah will have a finale Covenant with God; and Christians are permanent recipients of the Covenant in Christ's Blood (Covenant of Redemption)!
 
netchaplain said:
This is the Covenant that God will eventually make with "the house of Israel and with the house of Judah" (Heb 8:8), which is a reiteration of Hebrews 8. This is a future prophecy of Jer 31:31-34 and Eze 36:22-28 that will be established for the Jews who believe in God (Jn14:1) in the Millennium. This new Covenant will still involve "law" (Jer 32:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27). Israel and Judah will have a finale Covenant with God; and Christians are permanent recipients of the Covenant in Christ's Blood (Covenant of Redemption)!
Click to expand...
This has already been fulfilled on the day of Pentecost first with the Jews and then the Gentiles as both are now one in Christ Jesus through the Spiritual rebirth. We will be under the moral parts of the 613 laws until the return of Christ as He has only fulfilled the Temple laws so far with His death and resurrection.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


BTW, I do not believe in a literal 1000 years after Christ returns on the last day making an end to all things that are an abomination to God. but that is another topic.
 
netchaplain said:
This is the Covenant that God will eventually make with "the house of Israel and with the house of Judah" (Heb 8:8), which is a reiteration of Hebrews 8. This is a future prophecy of Jer 31:31-34 and Eze 36:22-28 that will be established for the Jews who believe in God (Jn14:1) in the Millennium. This new Covenant will still involve "law" (Jer 32:33), "statutes and judgments" (Eze 36:27). Israel and Judah will have a finale Covenant with God; and Christians are permanent recipients of the Covenant in Christ's Blood (Covenant of Redemption)!
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Good morning, Here are some views from Bing

The Covenant of Redemption is a theological concept that refers to the agreement made between the persons of the Godhead, specifically between the Father and the Son, in order to bring about salvation for God’s people 1. It is called a “covenant” inasmuch as the plan involves two or more parties.

The covenant of redemption is not a covenant between God and humans, but rather among the persons of the Godhead

1. The Son entered into a sacred agreement with the Father and submitted Himself to the obligations of that covenantal agreement. An obligation was likewise assumed by the Father—to give His Son a reward for doing the work of redemption

The Covenant of Redemption is not explicitly mentioned in Scripture, but its concept is heralded throughout 1. The Bible speaks often of God’s eternal counsel, of His plan of salvation, and the like. It is a matter of theological urgency that Christians not think of God as a ruler who ad libs His dominion of the universe.

God does not “make it up as He goes along.” Nor must He be viewed as a bumbling administrator who is so inept in His planning that His blueprint for redemption must be endlessly subject to revision according to the actions of men. The God of Scripture has no “plan b” or “plan c.” His “plan a” is from everlasting to everlasting.

It is both perfect and unchangeable as it rests on God’s eternal character, which is among other things, holy, omniscient, and immutable

In summary, while there is no direct reference to “Covenant of Redemption” in Jer 31:31-34 or Eze 36:22-28, these passages do speak to God’s promise to establish a new covenant with Israel and Judah that will involve law, statutes, and judgments 23.

Christians are permanent recipients of the Covenant in Christ’s Blood 1.

Love, Walter
 
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for_his_glory said:
This has already been fulfilled on the day of Pentecost first with the Jews and then the Gentiles as both are now one in Christ Jesus through the Spiritual rebirth. We will be under the moral parts of the 613 laws until the return of Christ as He has only fulfilled the Temple laws so far with His death and resurrection.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


BTW, I do not believe in a literal 1000 years after Christ returns on the last day making an end to all things that are an abomination to God. but that is another topic.
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The day of Pentecost has to do with Christ and rebirth. The Jer and Eze prophecies have to do with the new law coming for Israel. These prophecies have yet to occur Sis.

For example, Eze 36:28-38 has not occurred yet! But it is a common mistake among Bible Christians concerning these prophecies, as many think they have transpired. It couldn't be the new covenant in Christ from which some Jews and Gentiles presently receive, because it will involve a final covenant between Israel and God, and God has no covenant with Christians, but for Christians. It will still be "Law" (Jer 31:33), "statutes, and judgments" (Eze 36:27) and not Gospel; which involves believing in Christ before they see Him.

I don't think their is a more difficult teaching to get right than that which has to do with Israel's eschatology!

God bless you Girl!!
 
for_his_glory said:
This has already been fulfilled on the day of Pentecost first with the Jews and then the Gentiles as both are now one in Christ Jesus through the Spiritual rebirth. We will be under the moral parts of the 613 laws until the return of Christ as He has only fulfilled the Temple laws so far with His death and resurrection.
Click to expand...
Hello for_his_glory, We thought that this might be interesting about what you are saying:

The fullness of The Gentiles

While discussing these mercies of God, Paul seems to anticipate that his readers might wonder why, if God is so faithful to restore those who believe in Jesus, God’s promises of restoration to Israel do not seem to be fulfilled yet.

Simply put, if God is faithful, and if His promises to believers are trustworthy, then why is He not keeping His promises to Israel? It is to answer this concern that Paul writes Romans 9—11, as he introduces the ideas of a partial hardening of Israel and the fullness of the Gentiles (Romans 11:25).

In Romans 9 Paul expresses his love for his Jewish brethren (Romans 9:1–5) and recognizes that the covenant promises are to be fulfilled to a specific group of Abraham’s descendants.

Paul shows the distinct groups by highlighting God’s choosing of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and affirms that God’s blessing would be for those descendants who believe in the Messiah (Romans 9:33).

Salvation would not only be for believing Jews, though, as Gentiles could also call upon the name of the Lord for salvation (Romans 10:12–13).

While there are believing Jews and Gentiles, Paul explains that the nation of Israel as a whole has not yet received her Messiah (Romans 10:18—11:10), but they will one day be saved through believing in their Messiah (Romans 11:26).

In the meantime, Paul explains that there is a partial hardening of the nation—that many will refuse the Messiah—until the fullness of the Gentiles occurs. Israel’s hardening will continue until the divinely set number of Gentiles are saved: “Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ” (Romans 11:25, NLT).

Paul recognized that Israel’s failure to accept the Messiah when He came offering the kingdom represented blessing for the Gentiles because, instead of setting up that kingdom on earth at that time, Christ died to pay for the sins of all. In so doing, Christ fulfilled the promise God made to Abraham that in Abraham’s seed all the peoples of the earth will be blessed (Genesis 12:3).

That partial hardening of Israel also represented a shift in focus to the announcement of salvation to the Gentiles. Paul acknowledged himself as an apostle to the Gentiles (Romans 11:13) and sought that many Gentiles would come to know Christ so those promises could be fulfilled and then the Jewish people might return to their Messiah (Romans 11:14–15). Paul alluded to this in 2 Timothy 4:17 when he expressed gratitude for God’s sustaining him so that Paul might fulfill his ministry and that all the Gentiles might hear.

Even though God’s promises to save the nation of Israel are not presently being fulfilled, Paul recognizes that God will keep those promises after the fullness of the Gentiles. Paul seems to be building on the foundation of Daniel 9, in which is revealed a 490-year prophetic timeline after which God will accomplish His covenant blessings for Israel.

After the first 483 years of the timeline, the Messiah was cut off (Daniel 9:26), signaling a shift in the focus away from Israel as Gentiles (Rome) would dominate, and there would be wars and desolation. But one day in the future, the ruler who would be known as the Antichrist would make a seven-year agreement with Israel. That last seven years of the timeline would begin to return the focus back to Israel and would conclude the times of the Gentiles of which Jesus spoke in Luke 21:24.

The fullness of the Gentiles in Romans 11:25 reminds us of God’s global focus (with the universal proclamation of the gospel of salvation) and chronology (with the times of the Gentiles not yet complete). One day, the fullness of the Gentiles will be complete, and God will deliver the nation of Israel.

Anyone who might have doubts about God’s faithfulness in keeping His promises can consider these passages as important reminders that God has a detailed plan that He is fulfilling patiently and carefully.

And, BTW.

Zechariah 8: Restoration of Jerusalem

20Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: 21And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.

22Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.

23Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Love, Walter And Debbie
 
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WalterandDebbie said:
Hello for_his_glory, We thought that this might be interesting about what you are saying:

The fullness of The Gentiles

While discussing these mercies of God, Paul seems to anticipate that his readers might wonder why, if God is so faithful to restore those who believe in Jesus, God’s promises of restoration to Israel do not seem to be fulfilled yet.

Simply put, if God is faithful, and if His promises to believers are trustworthy, then why is He not keeping His promises to Israel? It is to answer this concern that Paul writes Romans 9—11, as he introduces the ideas of a partial hardening of Israel and the fullness of the Gentiles (Romans 11:25).

In Romans 9 Paul expresses his love for his Jewish brethren (Romans 9:1–5) and recognizes that the covenant promises are to be fulfilled to a specific group of Abraham’s descendants.

Paul shows the distinct groups by highlighting God’s choosing of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and affirms that God’s blessing would be for those descendants who believe in the Messiah (Romans 9:33).

Salvation would not only be for believing Jews, though, as Gentiles could also call upon the name of the Lord for salvation (Romans 10:12–13).

While there are believing Jews and Gentiles, Paul explains that the nation of Israel as a whole has not yet received her Messiah (Romans 10:18—11:10), but they will one day be saved through believing in their Messiah (Romans 11:26).

In the meantime, Paul explains that there is a partial hardening of the nation—that many will refuse the Messiah—until the fullness of the Gentiles occurs. Israel’s hardening will continue until the divinely set number of Gentiles are saved: “Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ” (Romans 11:25, NLT).

Paul recognized that Israel’s failure to accept the Messiah when He came offering the kingdom represented blessing for the Gentiles because, instead of setting up that kingdom on earth at that time, Christ died to pay for the sins of all. In so doing, Christ fulfilled the promise God made to Abraham that in Abraham’s seed all the peoples of the earth will be blessed (Genesis 12:3).

That partial hardening of Israel also represented a shift in focus to the announcement of salvation to the Gentiles. Paul acknowledged himself as an apostle to the Gentiles (Romans 11:13) and sought that many Gentiles would come to know Christ so those promises could be fulfilled and then the Jewish people might return to their Messiah (Romans 11:14–15). Paul alluded to this in 2 Timothy 4:17 when he expressed gratitude for God’s sustaining him so that Paul might fulfill his ministry and that all the Gentiles might hear.

Even though God’s promises to save the nation of Israel are not presently being fulfilled, Paul recognizes that God will keep those promises after the fullness of the Gentiles. Paul seems to be building on the foundation of Daniel 9, in which is revealed a 490-year prophetic timeline after which God will accomplish His covenant blessings for Israel.

After the first 483 years of the timeline, the Messiah was cut off (Daniel 9:26), signaling a shift in the focus away from Israel as Gentiles (Rome) would dominate, and there would be wars and desolation. But one day in the future, the ruler who would be known as the Antichrist would make a seven-year agreement with Israel. That last seven years of the timeline would begin to return the focus back to Israel and would conclude the times of the Gentiles of which Jesus spoke in Luke 21:24.

The fullness of the Gentiles in Romans 11:25 reminds us of God’s global focus (with the universal proclamation of the gospel of salvation) and chronology (with the times of the Gentiles not yet complete). One day, the fullness of the Gentiles will be complete, and God will deliver the nation of Israel.

Anyone who might have doubts about God’s faithfulness in keeping His promises can consider these passages as important reminders that God has a detailed plan that He is fulfilling patiently and carefully.

And, BTW.

Zechariah 8: Restoration of Jerusalem

20Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: 21And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also.

22Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.

23Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Love, Walter And Debbie
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Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Gentiles grafted in to provoke the Jews to jealousy in hopes they would start to see instead of continuing to be blind.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

God has put a seal on 144,000 Jews from every tribe of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim.

These servants are the generational 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they fell to idol worship and allowed God to be removed from them, Judges 18:30; 1 Kings12:25-33; Hosea 5:9, 11;Psalms 78:9-17, 65-67. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh. Judah is mentioned first as Messiah was to come from the lineage of David.

Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Jesus is not coming back for a Jew or a Gentile, but to all who is His own by God's grace through faith that is Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:8-9
 
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