Bible Study Doe the Bible condone slavery, rape, etc. ?

[JohnD]

You will have the answer when you read the texts in question with the understanding that they are written not for the toleration of the sin but for the benefit of the victims.

 

[Chopper]

You will have the answer when you read the texts in question with the understanding that they are written not for the toleration of the sin but for the benefit of the victims.

What texts?

 

[4afaithfulone]

I am confused as to what reading you mean but,
Slavery IS allowed in the Bible and is a form of job to earn ones keep and even profit, just as we are slaves to our place of employment to this day. Yet with many differences now. Back then they did not have factory businesses or corporations where one could earn wages. There was only farming & cattle and making your own clothes, but if you had no means to get these things, then God allowed us to sell ourselves to work for the higher ups who had all the wealth and could afford to feed many who are willing to serve & wait on them. Wouldn't you agree that if someone pays for your survival that you owe them your life? You'd die otherwise from poverty, lack of food etc..
When you allow someone to hire you, you are putting yourself under their command to follow and do what they tell you to do. In this day and age you may be able to quit your slave master at any time and find another, but there were time limits to serve one who hired you back then.
And even now according to God's Word, we are to serve our slave masters with complete integrity, loyalty for a house divided can not stand. A master must be able to trust his slave, for God frowns on disloyalty of any kind.
We are so spoiled that we think our boss owes us something, but a servant owes their master for choosing them out of all the applicants who needed that job to feed their family. But instead we belittle our boss, lie to him or her, steal from them, fake sick to have a day off, completely under mining the one who gave you a chance partake in his business's profits to feed your family! We do not realize that when we work for someone and we are not an asset, but are contributing to their businesses down fall by evil works, that we go down with them and will be put back in the field to have to find another poor unsuspecting subject to seduce into hiring you with your charms, to their down fall in the end!!
Loyalty and to do good for your master and his business rather his eyes are on you or not will be blessed by God for we can't pull the wool over God's eyes, He see's it all and reward accordingly.
However slavery does not mean the Right to mistreat as in torture, starve etc..someone just because you own them, Master's in God kingdom are to treat their slaves well. But it did include women being used by the one they sold themselves to for child rearing for there were not many men who could afford all the women. So to have One master to bear children to different women that he supports financially is more moral than for her to sell her body to every man that comes along as a prostitute. It is the father of a child who determines a bloodline, not the woman.
Eph 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
KJV
Col 4:1
4:1 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.
KJV
1 Tim 6:1-2
6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
KJV

 

[Deborah13]

I am confused as to what reading you mean but,
Slavery IS allowed in the Bible and is a form of job to earn ones keep and even profit, just as we are slaves to our place of employment to this day. Yet with many differences now. Back then they did not have factory businesses or corporations where one could earn wages. There was only farming & cattle and making your own clothes, but if you had no means to get these things, then God allowed us to sell ourselves to work for the higher ups who had all the wealth and could afford to feed many who are willing to serve & wait on them. Wouldn't you agree that if someone pays for your survival that you owe them your life? You'd die otherwise from poverty, lack of food etc..
When you allow someone to hire you, you are putting yourself under their command to follow and do what they tell you to do. In this day and age you may be able to quit your slave master at any time and find another, but there were time limits to serve one who hired you back then.
And even now according to God's Word, we are to serve our slave masters with complete integrity, loyalty for a house divided can not stand. A master must be able to trust his slave, for God frowns on disloyalty of any kind.
We are so spoiled that we think our boss owes us something, but a servant owes their master for choosing them out of all the applicants who needed that job to feed their family. But instead we belittle our boss, lie to him or her, steal from them, fake sick to have a day off, completely under mining the one who gave you a chance partake in his business's profits to feed your family! We do not realize that when we work for someone and we are not an asset, but are contributing to their businesses down fall by evil works, that we go down with them and will be put back in the field to have to find another poor unsuspecting subject to seduce into hiring you with your charms, to their down fall in the end!!
Loyalty and to do good for your master and his business rather his eyes are on you or not will be blessed by God for we can't pull the wool over God's eyes, He see's it all and reward accordingly.
However slavery does not mean the Right to mistreat as in torture, starve etc..someone just because you own them, Master's in God kingdom are to treat their slaves well. But it did include women being used by the one they sold themselves to for child rearing for there were not many men who could afford all the women. So to have One master to bear children to different women that he supports financially is more moral than for her to sell her body to every man that comes along as a prostitute. It is the father of a child who determines a bloodline, not the woman.
Eph 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
KJV
Col 4:1
4:1 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.
KJV
1 Tim 6:1-2
6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.
2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
KJV

I think he's talking about in the OT and about slaves who were captured and forced into slavery against their will.
There were Hebrews who were basically indentured slaves as well.

 

[OzSpen]

You will have the answer when you read the texts in question with the understanding that they are written not for the toleration of the sin but for the benefit of the victims.

John D,

There is an eerie silence by Jesus, the apostles and Paul in regard to rejecting slavery in a society. I would have thought that Jesus, the sinless Son of God, should have been condemning slavery outright – racial slavery like that in the USA — but this was not so. Why?

The following is based on the excellent article by A. Rupprecht, ‘Slave, Slavery’, in Merrill C. Tenney gen. ed. 1976, Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, vol. 5, Q-Z, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, pp. 453-460:

• Please don’t assign a barbaric, violent, unjust view of slaves to the Romans. Paul’s word to slave masters was that they should treat slaves with kindness and consideration (Eph. 6:9; Col. 4:1).
• Paul & Peter reminded those who became Christians and were slaved to obey their masters (Eph 6:5-8; Col 3:22-25; 1 Tim 6:1f; 1 Pet 2:18-21).
• The institution of slavery was not condemned in the NT but its abuses were.
• Slavery had become a well-known way to become a Roman citizen throughout the Empire;
• One study found that between 81-49 BC, “500,000 slaves were freed [by the Romans] during this period” and the city of Rome’s population was about 870,000.
• In the Roman Empire, a slave could expect freedom in about 7 years.
• “When a master freed his slave, he frequently established his freedman in a business and the master became a shareholder in it.”
• “While an individual was a slave, he was in most respects equal to his freeborn counterpart in the Graeco-Roman world, and in some respects he had an advantage. By the first century A.D. the slave had most of the legal rights which were granted to a free man.”
• “Living conditions for most slaves were better than those of free men who often slept in the streets of the city or lived in very cheap rooms.”
• “The free laborer in NT times was seldom in better circumstances than his slave counterpart.”
• “In fact, in time of economic hardship it was the slave and not the free man who was guaranteed the necessities of life for himself and his family.”
• Remember Philemon? He was a runaway slave and Paul suggested to him that he voluntarily return as a slave to his master (see Philem 10-18).

I highly recommend that article by A. Rupprecht.

We also need to be aware that a true Christian is a doulos (slave) of Christ. Doulos indicates the ownership of one person by another. Are we owned by Jesus? See Eph 6:5 (ESV); 1 Cor 7:22 (ESV); Matt 25:21 (ESV) is too often translated ‘Well done, good and faithful servant’ when it is ‘faithful doulos’. It should be ‘faithful slave’. Interesting! See also Rom 1:1 (NASB); Phil 1:1 (NASB); 2 Tim 2:24 (NASB).

Many modern translations use the weaker, 'servant', rather than slave or bond-servant for doulos.

John MacArthur Jr has an interesting exposition online that might interest you, ‘Slaves for Christ’.

Oz

 

[Free]

You will have the answer when you read the texts in question with the understanding that they are written not for the toleration of the sin but for the benefit of the victims.

This is the Bible Study forum, is it not? Would it not be helpful to provide the passages you have in mind?

 

[OzSpen]

This is the Bible Study forum, is it not? Would it not be helpful to provide the passages you have in mind?

Free,

I did that with exactly 13 Bible passages. What did I write that did not satisfy your need?

Oz

 

[Free]

Free,

I did that with exactly 13 Bible passages. What did I write that did not satisfy your need?

Oz

You just need to see who I was addressing.

 

[OzSpen]

You just need to see who I was addressing.

Thanks so much for clarifying? The OP was nebulous and without the possibility of answering when no Bible references were provided.

Oz

 

[Deborah13]

John D,

There is an eerie silence by Jesus, the apostles and Paul in regard to rejecting slavery in a society. I would have thought that Jesus, the sinless Son of God, should have been condemning slavery outright – racial slavery like that in the USA — but this was not so. Why?

The following is based on the excellent article by A. Rupprecht, ‘Slave, Slavery’, in Merrill C. Tenney gen. ed. 1976, Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, vol. 5, Q-Z, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, Michigan, pp. 453-460:

• Please don’t assign a barbaric, violent, unjust view of slaves to the Romans. Paul’s word to slave masters was that they should treat slaves with kindness and consideration (Eph. 6:9; Col. 4:1).
• Paul & Peter reminded those who became Christians and were slaved to obey their masters (Eph 6:5-8; Col 3:22-25; 1 Tim 6:1f; 1 Pet 2:18-21).
• The institution of slavery was not condemned in the NT but its abuses were.
• Slavery had become a well-known way to become a Roman citizen throughout the Empire;
• One study found that between 81-49 BC, “500,000 slaves were freed [by the Romans] during this period” and the city of Rome’s population was about 870,000.
• In the Roman Empire, a slave could expect freedom in about 7 years.
• “When a master freed his slave, he frequently established his freedman in a business and the master became a shareholder in it.”
• “While an individual was a slave, he was in most respects equal to his freeborn counterpart in the Graeco-Roman world, and in some respects he had an advantage. By the first century A.D. the slave had most of the legal rights which were granted to a free man.”
• “Living conditions for most slaves were better than those of free men who often slept in the streets of the city or lived in very cheap rooms.”
• “The free laborer in NT times was seldom in better circumstances than his slave counterpart.”
• “In fact, in time of economic hardship it was the slave and not the free man who was guaranteed the necessities of life for himself and his family.”
• Remember Philemon? He was a runaway slave and Paul suggested to him that he voluntarily return as a slave to his master (see Philem 10-18).

I highly recommend that article by A. Rupprecht.

We also need to be aware that a true Christian is a doulos (slave) of Christ. Doulos indicates the ownership of one person by another. Are we owned by Jesus? See Eph 6:5 (ESV); 1 Cor 7:22 (ESV); Matt 25:21 (ESV) is too often translated ‘Well done, good and faithful servant’ when it is ‘faithful doulos’. It should be ‘faithful slave’. Interesting! See also Rom 1:1 (NASB); Phil 1:1 (NASB); 2 Tim 2:24 (NASB).

Many modern translations use the weaker, 'servant', rather than slave or bond-servant for doulos.

John MacArthur Jr has an interesting exposition online that might interest you, ‘Slaves for Christ’.

Oz

We are bond slaves of Christ because our freedom was bought with a price. In order to have this freedom we agree that the price was paid for us and enter in to the agreement.
Slavery by force is a totally different type of slavery. In Moses' Law we see that there are different laws for the treatment of a bond slave (Israelite/Hebrew or proselyte) and those who had been taken captive slaves by force from other nations and were not Israelites.

 

[OzSpen]

We are bond slaves of Christ because our freedom was bought with a price. In order to have this freedom we agree that the price was paid for us and enter in to the agreement.

Deborah,

I'm not sure those who agree with unconditional election and irresistible grace would agree with you.

Oz

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah,

I'm not sure those who agree with unconditional election and irresistible grace would agree with you.

Oz

You are probably correct.
But what is a bond servant/slave in the OT? Were they forced into this position or was it by choice?

 

[OzSpen]

You are probably correct.
But what is a bond servant/slave in the OT? Were they forced into this position or was it by choice?

Deborah,

In the OT, there were at least 6 ways in which a person could become a slave:

1. As a captive of war: Num 31:7-35 (ESV); Deut 20:10-18 (ESV); 1 Ki 20:39; 2 Chron 28:8-15);
2. They could be purchased. Foreigners could be purchased and sold and were considered property: Lev 25:44-46 (ESV); Ex 21:16; 1 Chron 2:34ff; Deut 24:7. The OT gives examples of a father selling his daughter (Ex 21:7; Neh 5:5); children of a widow were sold to pay her husband's debt (2 Kings 4:11); men and women sold themselves into slavery (Lev 25:39, 47; Deut 15:12-17).
3. Bankruptcy (Ex 21:2-4; Deut 15:12);
4. A gift of a slave could be given as Leah received Zilpah as her slave (Gen 29:24).
5. As an inheritance: Lev 25:46 (ESV). Those who were not Hebrews could be slaves from generation to generation.
6. Those slaves from birth (Ex 21:4; Lev 25:54).

I'm indebted to A Rupprecht (The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, vol 5, 1976:454-455) for this material.

Slavery was widespread in the secular and Hebrew world of the Near East. For the Hebrews, there were regulations concerning the release of slaves (see Ex 21:1-11; Lev 25:39-55; Deut 15:12-18). Slaves were to be freed after serving for 6 years.

For the Hebrews, the slaves were members of the household and were included with the group of women and children (Ex 20:17).

In Gal 4:1 (ESV), Paul states, 'the heir, as long as he is a child is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything'. When we go to Gal 4:7 (ESV) we discover, 'So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God'.

There are some interesting and challenging dimensions to slavery when we compare the OT and NT material.

Oz

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah,

In the OT, there were at least 6 ways in which a person could become a slave:

1. As a captive of war: Num 31:7-35 (ESV); Deut 20:10-18 (ESV); 1 Ki 20:39; 2 Chron 28:8-15);
2. They could be purchased. Foreigners could be purchased and sold and were considered property: Lev 25:44-46 (ESV); Ex 21:16; 1 Chron 2:34ff; Deut 24:7. The OT gives examples of a father selling his daughter (Ex 21:7; Neh 5:5); children of a widow were sold to pay her husband's debt (2 Kings 4:11); men and women sold themselves into slavery (Lev 25:39, 47; Deut 15:12-17).
3. Bankruptcy (Ex 21:2-4; Deut 15:12);
4. A gift of a slave could be given as Leah received Zilpah as her slave (Gen 29:24).
5. As an inheritance: Lev 25:46 (ESV). Those who were not Hebrews could be slaves from generation to generation.
6. Those slaves from birth (Ex 21:4; Lev 25:54).

I'm indebted to A Rupprecht (The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, vol 5, 1976:454-455) for this material.

Slavery was widespread in the secular and Hebrew world of the Near East. For the Hebrews, there were regulations concerning the release of slaves (see Ex 21:1-11; Lev 25:39-55; Deut 15:12-18). Slaves were to be freed after serving for 6 years.

For the Hebrews, the slaves were members of the household and were included with the group of women and children (Ex 20:17).

In Gal 4:1 (ESV), Paul states, 'the heir, as long as he is a child is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything'. When we go to Gal 4:7 (ESV) we discover, 'So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God'.

There are some interesting and challenging dimensions to slavery when we compare the OT and NT material.

Oz

And different laws for different types of slaves.
The one where the daughter is sold by the Hebrew father was being sold as to be a wife of the one buying her or his son. There were different stipulations as to her treatment. If those stipulations were not met she must be given her freedom without being redeemed.
A Hebrew was not allowed to strike another Hebrew not so for the foreign slave, he could be beaten.

 

[OzSpen]

And different laws for different types of slaves.
The one where the daughter is sold by the Hebrew father was being sold as to be a wife of the one buying her or his son. There were different stipulations as to her treatment. If those stipulations were not met she must be given her freedom without being redeemed.
A Hebrew was not allowed to strike another Hebrew not so for the foreign slave, he could be beaten.

I answered your question, 'Were they forced into this position or was it by choice?' Now you want to go in a different direction with the 'different types of slaves' and not how a person became a slave - by force or choice. For many, it was slavery without choice.

A reference I gave in #13 for 'children of a widow were sold to pay her husband's debt' (2 Kings 4:11) is incorrect. It should be 2 Kings 4:1.

Oz

 

[Deborah13]

You are switching horses. I answered your question, 'Were they forced into this position or was it by choice?' Now you want to go in a different direction with the 'different types of slaves' and not how a person became a slave - by force or choice. For many, it was slavery without choice. So you responded with a red herring logical fallacy.

A reference I gave in #13 for 'children of a widow were sold to pay her husband's debt' (2 Kings 4:11) is incorrect. It should be 2 Kings 4:1.

Oz

My original post to John D was about different types of slavery.
"Slavery by force is a totally different type of slavery. In Moses' Law we see that there are different laws for the treatment of a bond slave (Israelite/Hebrew or proselyte) and those who had been taken captive slaves by force from other nations and were not Israelites."
Trying to stay with the OP.

 

[JohnD]

What texts?

I was reflecting back on the claims of a skeptic I was witnessing to, who said the Bible cannot be a book of a benevolent god who condones slavery rape etc. They had to concede the point I made in the OP which never occurred to them. That since these things were going on by the hand of man, the benevolent God WAS providing for the victims of man.

 

[JohnD]

If it weren't for the need for man to have an actual choice... I am sure life would be the (non-perverse version) love fest most try to indict God for not forcing upon us all (as some crass sort of evidence of his existence). The hubris of people sometimes... oy

 

[OzSpen]

My original post to John D was about different types of slavery.
"Slavery by force is a totally different type of slavery. In Moses' Law we see that there are different laws for the treatment of a bond slave (Israelite/Hebrew or proselyte) and those who had been taken captive slaves by force from other nations and were not Israelites."
Trying to stay with the OP.

How about some Bible verses to support what you are saying?

 

[Deborah13]

How about some Bible verses to support what you are saying?

I think you pretty well covered them in your post.
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

1. To deal judicially with the Hebrew bondman in accordance with the laws appertaining to him (Ex. 21:2-6) (affirmative).
2. Not to compel the Hebrew servant to do the work of a slave (Lev. 25:39) (negative).
3. Not to sell a Hebrew servant as a slave (Lev. 25:42) (negative).
4. Not to treat a Hebrew servant rigorously (Lev. 25:43) (negative).
5. Not to permit a gentile to treat harshly a Hebrew bondman sold to him (Lev. 25:53) (negative).
6. Not to send away a Hebrew bondman servant empty handed, when he is freed from service (Deut. 15:13) (negative).
7. To bestow liberal gifts upon the Hebrew bondsman (at the end of his term of service), and the same should be done to a Hebrew bondwoman (Deut. 15:14) (affirmative).
8. To redeem a Hebrew maid-servant (Ex. 21:8) (affirmative).
9. Not to sell a Hebrew maid-servant to another person (Ex. 21:8) (negative).
10. To espouse a Hebrew maid-servant (Ex. 21:8-9) (affirmative).
11. To keep the Canaanite slave forever (Lev. 25:46) (affirmative).
12. Not to surrender a slave, who has fled to the land of Israel, to his owner who lives outside Palestine (Deut. 23:16) (negative).
13. Not to wrong such a slave (Deut. 23:17) (negative).