Does day of Christ ressurection tell us to worship on Sunday

[Ahuli]

Worship is the reason for the Sabbath. It is the only day God ever gave us to worship Him on.
...
So where did Sunday worship come from...

The Sabbath was given to Jews as a gift of discipline to force them to rely on God rather than their own efforts. "While the Jews rest on the Sabbath, their enemies are training" is of no consequence when God is on the side of His People.

Jesus laid down His life for us. Big Deal! :o Men have died for those they loved throughout history. But only God could lay down His life for us and then take it back again. Jesus proved He is God through the Resurrection.

Truth be told, none of us has ever kept the Sabbath to God's standard. The second your undisciplined mind turns to what else you could be doing with the time you have set aside for God, you are guilty of all. So rather than continue our futile efforts to observe the Sabbath, we turn our observance to the Resurrection as a symbol of that which frees us from the futility of our efforts. Those who believe in Jesus are free from the bondage of the Law.

The Sabbath is not Jewish it belongs to God. It tells you that ...

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You have not kept the Sabbath to God's standards because you have not taken the time to find out how that is done. Of course, there are many Christians who teach an arbitrary/despotic God who gives rules no one can follow.

 

[Ahuli]

Where did Sunday come in as a day of worship, was it from the ressurection, did Christ rise and tell the Disciples something that was not in scripture or did the change come from elsewhere. Some people say 'I keep Sunday in honor of the Resurrection' or they are told that the Apostles began keeping Sunday as the day of worship after the ressurection, but did they. Did the ressurection somehow cause a change to the day of worship?

Worship is the reason for the Sabbath. It is the only day God ever gave us to worship Him on.......


So where did Sunday worship come from...

Hi Hobie,

The day of the resurrection would be the first day of the new creation... Jesus is the firstborn of the new creation! It was also, I believe, important to end the old creation with Jesus buried in the tomb on a Sabbath day thus spelling the end of the old creation.
.

When did the universe God created become old and when did HE create a new one?

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Please quote scripture to support your theory.

 

[Ahuli]

I Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him ins store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

These two passages seem to indicate that the first believers did worship on Sunday/the First day of the week. Myself I have chosen Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm as my Sabbath. But IMO the Scriptures give much freedom on the Sabbath (Romans 14:4-13; Galatians 4:8-10: Colossians 2:14-17), I think Christians should give God a day of the week, but from what I read in the Bible, I can't judge my brother or sister on these issues. From the way I understand these passages from Romans 14, Galatians 4, and Colossians 2, it is Faith in Jesus Christ which is important not keeping what portion of the law I esteem best. The only command Jesus gave us was to Love God and our neighbour. (Matthew 22:37-40; John 15:12), not to keep the sabbath. For love is the work of our faith.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circimcision availeth any thing, nor uncircimcision; but faith which worketh by love.

I worship every day of the week. You? Sabbath has nothing to do with worship; read it for yourself and see and then tell me what it tells you to do.

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[Ahuli]

"So which reason is it?
First you say you don't have to keep the Sabbath because it was for Jews.
Then you said you didn't have to keep the Sabbath because the Sunday resurrection proved he was God.
Lastly you claim that you are free from bondage of the law."

None of the above.

I keep the "Sabbath" EVERY DAY by resting in the provision of Jesus for the forgiveness of my sins. He's the "Sabbath" now, and the "Sabbath DAY" was only a shadow of the REALITY that was to come, and in our time HAS come to fruition.

I go to the church building on Sunday (and Wednesday) - because if I want to gather with the "church", that's when it'll be there.

The Cowboy Churches in Dallas have Monday meetings - since folks tend to be busy on Sundays. no problem - the "day" isn't important one way or another.

You are wrong, Bob. It is not your call on how to keep the Sabbath. It is God's call. I know you don't believe you can tell HIM how it's done. I've known you for a while.

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[Sinthesis]

Let's try this again...

Before Jesus Came

• Deu 5:12 - Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
  
  Eze 20:12 - Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.

After Jesus Came

• Mat 23:19 - [Ye] fools and blind: for whether [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

Do you see? Do you see? Or, are ye blind? :shades

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"You are wrong, Bob. It is not your call on how to keep the Sabbath. It is God's call."

True - and as far as I know from the Word, the "Sabbath" is no longer a "DAY" - but is now a "person". Noting that "Sabbath observance" in NOT in the list of imperatives given to the Gentile church, so obviously not an issue for them as a group.

I assume, then, that you observe the "Weekly Sabbath" beginning at sundown on Friday, until Sundown Saturday??? How do you handle the OTHER "Sabbaths" that didn't occur weekly??

"9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:"

Actually in this bad economy, I have 4 days to "do all my work". 20% pay cut goes with that, but if we NEVER go back on 5 days, it'd be too soon.

 

[adam332]

True - and as far as I know from the Word, the "Sabbath" is no longer a "DAY" - but is now a "person". Noting that "Sabbath observance" in NOT in the list of imperatives given to the Gentile church, so obviously not an issue for them as a group.

I assume, then, that you observe the "Weekly Sabbath" beginning at sundown on Friday, until Sundown Saturday??? How do you handle the OTHER "Sabbaths" that didn't occur weekly??

Sorry Bob, that's incorrect. The Gentile and Israelite Christians continued to observe the Sabbath, as recorded in the Bible decades after the cross. Even the Gentiles were now calling it the "Sabbath". The Holy Spirit while writing through Luke in the book of Acts also calls that day "the Sabbath".

You can find such references below where it also records Paul keeping the Sabbath 84 times after the cross.
Acts 13:14,42-44 16:13; 17:2; Acts 18:4,11

So where in the Bible do you feel justified saying "the Sabbath is no longer a day". In Isaiah he tells us in the New Heavens and New Earth that all shall come to worship every Sabbath.

So by your reckoning it was a day, then it wasn't a day, but in the future it will be a day again.

Yes my Sabbath begins at sundown on Friday, what does that matter. What does actions have to do with whether you have made a Biblical point.

You asked that question to try and to catch someone in a contradiction, between their actions and their interpretation. Not very Christian, and not a proper way to sharpen ones sword.

If a thief tells you that the Bible says; "thou shalt not steal", is it any less accurate because he steals?

Does an art historian, have to be an artist to be knowledgeable about art?

You may want to read this thread from the beginning.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"What does actions have to do with whether you have made a Biblical point."

SImple -

There are two popular versions of chronological "Sabbatarianism". One is the one that I grew up with that taught the Sunday was the "Sabbath" - i.e. that it had "Changed" (generally because of when Jesus rose). Since the "Sabbath day" is never stated to be different, that one was easy to dismiss as "Tradition", and not biblical imperative.

If you were hung up on a "Sabbath day" but were convinced that it SHOULD BE "Sunday" for a Christian (as many are), then that would be a whole 'nuther discussion from one that's based on a belief that the Jewish Weekly "Sabbath" schedule (which is the ONLY Biblical weekly "sabbath) is STILL what God "requires". I placed a "test screen" and you fell out on the "Fundamentalistic Sabbatarian" side.

For my part I'll stick with Peter's instructions to the Gentile church, and the portions of the "law" that HE thought were critical - and Rom 14:

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

I don't esteem "one day" above another, and I REST in Jesus, and have ceased from my "Works" - not on any "Sabbath day" - all the time. And the ONLY REASON I go to the "church building" on Sunday - is because that's the day that the Church gathers in it - twice normally.

You can do as you please, of course, and satisfy your version of the "Faith" in the matter, but Paul instructs that it's not YOUR PLACE to "pass Judgement" on folks who see things differently. You're certainly free to "give your opinion" - as I did.

 

[Adullam]

Christians are to worship God every day. They are to gather on a daily basis as well. The early church always met at night. People worked during the day. We hear of church gatherings on the first day of the week (saturday evening) since the Jews were observing their sabbath on the 7th day. After havdallah (the closing of the sabbath) the Jews AND Gentile believers could gather together (The Gentile Christians did not practice the Jewish rites). So the practice of meeting on saturday night was in order to include all believers both Jews and Gentiles. It seems that although the church met everyday the saturday night meetings were memorable. We need only to read the biblical record...Pentecost, Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:1,2.

It seems interesting that whenever a church gathering was held, the account always places that meeting on the first day of the week (Saturday evening).

 

[Ahuli]

Let's try this again...

Before Jesus Came

• Deu 5:12 - Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
  
  Eze 20:12 - Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.

After Jesus Came

• Mat 23:19 - [Ye] fools and blind: for whether [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

Do you see? Do you see? Or, are ye blind? :shades

That is so strange. Find me a scripture that says the ten commandments are obsolete including the fourth.

 

[Ahuli]

"What does actions have to do with whether you have made a Biblical point."

SImple -

There are two popular versions of chronological "Sabbatarianism". One is the one that I grew up with that taught the Sunday was the "Sabbath" - i.e. that it had "Changed" (generally because of when Jesus rose). Since the "Sabbath day" is never stated to be different, that one was easy to dismiss as "Tradition", and not biblical imperative.

If you were hung up on a "Sabbath day" but were convinced that it SHOULD BE "Sunday" for a Christian (as many are), then that would be a whole 'nuther discussion from one that's based on a belief that the Jewish Weekly "Sabbath" schedule (which is the ONLY Biblical weekly "sabbath) is STILL what God "requires". I placed a "test screen" and you fell out on the "Fundamentalistic Sabbatarian" side.

For my part I'll stick with Peter's instructions to the Gentile church, and the portions of the "law" that HE thought were critical - and Rom 14:

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

I don't esteem "one day" above another, and I REST in Jesus, and have ceased from my "Works" - not on any "Sabbath day" - all the time. And the ONLY REASON I go to the "church building" on Sunday - is because that's the day that the Church gathers in it - twice normally.

You can do as you please, of course, and satisfy your version of the "Faith" in the matter, but Paul instructs that it's not YOUR PLACE to "pass Judgement" on folks who see things differently. You're certainly free to "give your opinion" - as I did.

OK, Bob. I suppose you were speaking to me? You have not shown in any way how or why the ten commandments were nullified, including the fourth.

 

[Ahuli]

Christians are to worship God every day. They are to gather on a daily basis as well. The early church always met at night. People worked during the day. We hear of church gatherings on the first day of the week (saturday evening) since the Jews were observing their sabbath on the 7th day. After havdallah (the closing of the sabbath) the Jews AND Gentile believers could gather together (The Gentile Christians did not practice the Jewish rites). So the practice of meeting on saturday night was in order to include all believers both Jews and Gentiles. It seems that although the church met everyday the saturday night meetings were memorable. We need only to read the biblical record...Pentecost, Acts 20:7, 1 Cor. 16:1,2.

It seems interesting that whenever a church gathering was held, the account always places that meeting on the first day of the week (Saturday evening).

There is no such thing as the Jewish Sabbath. It belongs to God, who made it after He worked six days on creation. Of course, if you think it is only the Jews who were created, you'll have a point.

 

[adam332]

For my part I'll stick with Peter's instructions to the Gentile church, and the portions of the "law" that HE thought were critical - and Rom 14:

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

But unfortunately the phrase "the day" in this passage does not show that Paul instructed the Gentile church anything about the Sabbath. There is no mention of the Sabbath at all. Yet, you claim that passage holds instructions, for something it never mentions?

I noticed how you placed in bold the part you wanted to emphasize. Stopped midway in verse 6, eh? Did you ever wonder what those words immediately after the bold words meant?

Earlier it was talking about vegetarianism vs. eating meat sacrificed to idols, (also see 1Tim. 4, 1Cor. 8). Then he discussed another food issue that was dividing the Church.

First understand the Israelite believers, Judaic believers, and Gentile believers were congregating together. Paul was writing about a problem of judging among the apostolic believers. Verses 4, 10, and 13 exhort against the sin of judging one another.

The Judaic believers were commanded specific days to fast, these were not required for the rest of Israel or the Gentiles. The only days discussed in the discourse are days(v. 6) which one should choose to eat on, or not eat on. That clearly tells us that it was the Judaic fasting days that were being discussed, not the Sabbath which had never been hinted at.

Paul's actual instruction in that passage is;....
Any day you choose to fast, or not to fast, is acceptable and don't judge your brother in regard to this.

This had been pointed out earlier, that's why I suggested you read the thread.

Since actions seem to interest you.... Paul, the disciples, the Gentile believers kept the Sabbath, and continued to call it the Sabbath. Do not those examples stand as witness for you?

You will take one passage of Paul's that never mentions the Sabbath, and tell me that it holds more instruction on the Sabbath than the 84 times Paul was recorded keeping it?

Seriously Bob, think about that.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"There is no mention of the Sabbath at all. Yet, you claim that passage holds instructions, for something it never mentions?"

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Case closed.

 

[Sinthesis]

"There is no mention of the Sabbath at all. Yet, you claim that passage holds instructions, for something it never mentions?"

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Case closed.

 

[Ahuli]

"There is no mention of the Sabbath at all. Yet, you claim that passage holds instructions, for something it never mentions?"

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Case closed.

If you don't have to keep the Sabbath day of the ten commandments, you don't have to refrain from killing, stealing, and the rest of them, in which case ... glad I don't know you personally.

 

[Pard]

"There is no mention of the Sabbath at all. Yet, you claim that passage holds instructions, for something it never mentions?"

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Case closed.

If you don't have to keep the Sabbath day of the ten commandments, you don't have to refrain from killing, stealing, and the rest of them, in which case ... glad I don't know you personally.

That's wrong, Ahuli. Jesus said:

"One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (NIV, Mark 12:28-31)."

He gave us the commandments we ought to follow (and if you notice, they are literally the ten commandments condensed into a simple sentence or two).

Jesus said we must love God with ever ounce of our being and that we must "Love our neighbors as yourself". The loving your neighbors part takes the place of the commandments about murder, stealing, "and the rest of them". The first part about loving God takes the place of the first couple commandments about God being the One true God and not worshiping idols.

The real answer to this question lies in:

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.",

Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

Acts 15:19-20 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood"

As you see in the first two, the Sabbath day is not needed for Christians. The last quote, from Acts, shows that of all the things the Apostles had to teach the gentiles, keeping the Sabbath didn't even show up on their radar.

We go to church on Sunday not to fulfill a commandment from God but because we honor Jesus on this day, for it was Sunday that they found his empty tomb! Now, we gather on Sunday in honor of Jesus, however we worship everyday when we read the Bible, pray, even singing hymns!

 

[Packrat]

"There is no mention of the Sabbath at all. Yet, you claim that passage holds instructions, for something it never mentions?"

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Case closed.

If you don't have to keep the Sabbath day of the ten commandments, you don't have to refrain from killing, stealing, and the rest of them, in which case ... glad I don't know you personally.

That's wrong, Ahuli. Jesus said:

"One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (NIV, Mark 12:28-31)."

He gave us the commandments we ought to follow (and if you notice, they are literally the ten commandments condensed into a simple sentence or two).

Jesus said we must love God with ever ounce of our being and that we must "Love our neighbors as yourself". The loving your neighbors part takes the place of the commandments about murder, stealing, "and the rest of them". The first part about loving God takes the place of the first couple commandments about God being the One true God and not worshiping idols.

The real answer to this question lies in:

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.",

Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

Acts 15:19-20 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood"

As you see in the first two, the Sabbath day is not needed for Christians. The last quote, from Acts, shows that of all the things the Apostles had to teach the gentiles, keeping the Sabbath didn't even show up on their radar.

We go to church on Sunday not to fulfill a commandment from God but because we honor Jesus on this day, for it was Sunday that they found his empty tomb! Now, we gather on Sunday in honor of Jesus, however we worship everyday when we read the Bible, pray, even singing hymns!

Leviticus 19:18 "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.'"
Deuteronomy 6:5 "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength."

It wouldn't make much sense for commandments that were already part of God's Torah to replace that Torah. Taking the stance that Colossians 2:16-17 implies that we are no longer obligated to obey God's decrees contradicts not only Acts 15:20 but also God's later enforcement of the Festival of Shelters upon the Gentiles during the Millennial Reign of Christ (Zechariah 14:19).

Zechariah 14:19 "This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles."

From what I gather, whenever Paul is speaking about laws or customs that may or may not be observed he is talking about those that were created by Men - not by God. You can find examples of these in Zechariah 7:5-6. Keep in mind that the Sabbath was God's teaching but the Pharisees were only men and they had a whole body of laws/customs surrounding the Sabbath. This is part of what makes it hard for Christians today to separate the traditions of the Pharisees from the teachings of God. Most Christians tend to view them both with a suspicious eye, but we need not view God's laws as suspect. Rather, we should separate them from the teachings of men which are ready to judge us with respect to meat or drink or holy days or sabbath days (Colossians 2:16). We can find an example of men judging Jesus and his disciples with respect to the Sabbath when they were accused of working by crushing some heads of grain in order to eat.

They weren't disobeying the Sabbath (Matthew 12:7), but men judged them for violating the Sabbath. If their brains were the size of a pomegranate seed they'd know that it was permitted to eat whatever the land yielded for them during the Sabbath years (Leviticus 25:6) and to eat directly from the field during the Year of Jubilee (Leviticus 25:12). Would the Pharisees have objected to feeding themselves for an entire year?

Matthew 12:7 "If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent."

God had already declared the Sabbath holy (Genesis 2:3). There was no question as to whether it was "holy for some while not for others." It was holy. God said. That's the end of it.

Genesis 2:3 "And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done."

The statement that the Sabbath is not needed for Christians may be intrinsically true, since it was not needed even for the Jews if they wanted to live horrible lives and be exiled from their land by God. Need is a very arbitrary word that is hard to define. However, every Christian should obey God's commandment to observe the Sabbath. In the very least it is trying to observe what God declares to be holy behavior (Leviticus 11:44, 1 Peter 1:16) rather than just shrugging it off as being Jesus' responsibility to obey God's teachings for us. And to be honest, that doesn't even make any sense. Because Jesus has not murdered can I now commit murder? The truth is we are to obey God's Torah because it is holy, right and pure. The ramifications for obedience of Torah go beyond our own well-being. Arguably, for instance, God gave his Torah to Israel so that the surrounding nations would see how wise a people Israel was and through them come to know the God from which such wisdom sprang (Deuteronomy 4:6).

Deuteronomy 4:8 "And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?"
Romans 7:12 "So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good."

Which part of God's Torah (i.e. "Law" or "Teaching") would a godly Christian say that it is worthless to obey then if all of it is holy and righteous? There are those who dissect God's Torah without the intention of learning from it but only to judge it as insignificant, petty or worthless. Then you have those who place their faith in God enough to obey his laws that seem "petty" or "pointless" and in doing so learn the lessons that they have to offer. Which sort of individual you are is entirely up to you. I know that I have not obeyed every decree of God's and therefore am thankful for his saving grace. But it will be my intention to try to obey his decrees because they are holy, righteous and good.

 

[adam332]

"There is no mention of the Sabbath at all. Yet, you claim that passage holds instructions, for something it never mentions?"

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Case closed.

Really Bob?

I clearly showed that your previous passage was unfounded for such a claim. Instead of actually finding a flaw in my logic, you just throw up another passage?

So now you claim it's this passage that gives you permission to break a Commandment. Nope, no mention of Sabbath there either.

How come you keep showing me passages with no mention of the Sabbath and acting as if they are some instruction on the Sabbath?

Then everything is perfectly ok except "abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication"?

That passage doesn't mention loving God or loving our brethren. Does that mean the two greatest commandments aren't required?

Bob, that means no baptism, no prayer, no communion, no fellowship, no spreading the gospel, no repentance, etc...

Is Acts 15 really your guideline Bob or was it just something to throw out there since you didn't have a response for your previous claim?

Which of the other ten commandments do you think Acts 15 voids? How about murder Bob?

 

[adam332]

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.",

Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

Acts 15:19-20 "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood"

As you see in the first two, the Sabbath day is not needed for Christians. The last quote, from Acts, shows that of all the things the Apostles had to teach the gentiles, keeping the Sabbath didn't even show up on their radar.

I think you should read the thread before you start throwing verses around...

Re:Col. 2

Paul wrote his epistle to the church at Colossae for this purpose…

Col. 1:9-11 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Why did he want to keep them on the Godly path?

Col. 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Col. 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you…â€

Col. 2:18 “Let no man beguile you…â€

Col. 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Col. 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines of men?

6 times within an 18 verses span Paul condemns man's words, judgments, ordinances, and traditions. This gives us no doubt as to the common root of the heresy that Paul was dealing with, they were the worldly doctrines of men. He is contrasting the authority of Christ in all these matters, with that of mans. Colossians establishes the Lord's laws and warns against mans teaching about such things as the Sabbath.
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Re: Rom. 14

Earlier in v. 2,3 it was talking about vegetarianism vs. eating meat sacrificed to idols, (also see 1Tim. 4, 1Cor. 8). Then he discussed another food issue that was dividing the Church.

First understand the Israelite believers, Judaic believers, and Gentile believers were congregating together. Paul was writing about a problem of judging among the apostolic believers. Verses 4, 10, and 13 exhort against the sin of judging one another.

The Judaic believers were commanded specific days to fast, these were not required for the rest of Israel or the Gentiles. The only days discussed in the discourse are days(v. 6) which one should choose to eat on, or not eat on. That clearly tells us that it was the Judaic fasting days that were being discussed, not the Sabbath which had never been hinted at.

Paul's actual instruction in that passage is;....
Any day you choose to fast, or not to fast, is acceptable and don't judge your brother in regard to this.

Re: Acts 15

See above my post above to Bob which addresses that passage.