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Does fulfilled prophecy make the Bible irrelevant?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lehigh3
  • Start date Start date
Preterists believe all prophecy has been fulfilled. Does it mean that we have no hope today?

If all Prophecy has been fulfilled, then isn't the Bible Irrelevant?

No, because the vast majority of the Bible isn't even about prophecy. I once heard a preacher say, "the Bible isn't a book about destiny: it's about decision."

As long as we have the capacity to make decisions about whether we will obey the word or not, the Bible will continue to be relevant.

22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror;
24 for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.
25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does. James 1:22-25 (NASB)
In other words, whether prophecy is fulfilled or not, we are still called to be "doers of the word."
 
I suggest that most of what is out of ignorance or stubbornness commonly looked upon as unfulfilled prophecy is at its root a desire for the vindictive judgment of the 'wicked' rather than the need for any type of hope.

Where is the hope in today's eschatology of 'Jesus get me outta here cause this place is going to hell'?:screwloose
 
Preterists believe all prophecy has been fulfilled. Does it mean that we have no hope today?

If all Prophecy has been fulfilled, then isn't the Bible Irrelevant?

Hi, no, it is even more interesting! First see Eccl. 1:9-10 & then the verse below.

Eccl. 3
[14] I know that, whatsoever God doeth, (or sayeth by His WORD) it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. (see Rev.'s last couple verses!)

[15] That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past. (Very accurate Prophecy!)

OK: Now test God!:yes And He is talking of important repeats about Salvation. (the little things such as the word flood, He say's will not happen again, Nor Nah. 1:9's sin stuff!)

But all ealse mostly does if you think of the BIG Pictures meaning. Try Christ's execution on the cross for instance? Then see Heb. 6:6 the second time by His professed own?

Such as John 1:10-11 'His own' & then the Matt. 7 Broadway ones +!

--Elijah
 
I suggest that most of what is out of ignorance or stubbornness commonly looked upon as unfulfilled prophecy is at its root a desire for the vindictive judgment of the 'wicked' rather than the need for any type of hope.
You mean like this?

Marvin the Martian clips

(First clip!)
 
synthesis thats a rather blantant missunderstanding of the pre-trib.
 
Not all prophecy has been fulfilled.

Isaiah 17:1 NLT
This message came to me concerning Damascus:
“Look, the city of Damascus will disappear!
It will become a heap of ruins.

Zechariah 14:4-9 NLT
4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem. And the Mount of Olives will split apart, making a wide valley running from east to west. Half the mountain will move toward the north and half toward the south. 5 You will flee through this valley, for it will reach across to Azal.
Yes, you will flee as you did from the earthquake in the days of King Uzziah of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all his holy ones with him.

6 On that day the sources of light will no longer shine, 7 yet there will be continuous day! Only the Lord knows how this could happen. There will be no normal day and night, for at evening time it will still be light.
8 On that day life-giving waters will flow out from Jerusalem, half toward the Dead Sea and half toward the Mediterranean, flowing continuously in both summer and winter.
9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth. On that day there will be one Lord—his name alone will be worshiped.
 
Not all prophecy has been fulfilled.

Isaiah 17:1 NLT
This message came to me concerning Damascus:
“Look, the city of Damascus will disappear!
It will become a heap of ruins.

Zechariah 14:4-9 NLT
4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem. And the Mount of Olives will split apart, making a wide valley running from east to west. Half the mountain will move toward the north and half toward the south. 5 You will flee through this valley, for it will reach across to Azal.
Yes, you will flee as you did from the earthquake in the days of King Uzziah of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all his holy ones with him.

6 On that day the sources of light will no longer shine, 7 yet there will be continuous day! Only the Lord knows how this could happen. There will be no normal day and night, for at evening time it will still be light.
8 On that day life-giving waters will flow out from Jerusalem, half toward the Dead Sea and half toward the Mediterranean, flowing continuously in both summer and winter.
9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth. On that day there will be one Lord—his name alone will be worshiped.

And countless other prophacies throughout the old and new testiment.
 
look around you. you are older then me. Was the holocausts of the jews, the smaller ones in kosovo, bosnia, and african holocaust(Maafa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and zimbabwe and one other african nation i just cant remember:bigfrown somehow an abberitation to the idea that the millienial reign is here? the morals of man and man in general isnt getting better. thats the fact the hope in the bible is for those that repent. its not for the lost till they come to christ.the book of revalation is a book of hope that God is coming to judge men good and evil and too finally do away with satan. if you are in christ you have nothing to fear, but if not.. thats the gospel message. christ never said the judgment wasnt going to happen. He came so that man could escape the judgement.
 
look around you. you are older then me. Was the holocausts of the jews, the smaller ones in kosovo, bosnia, and african holocaust(Maafa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and zimbabwe and one other african nation i just cant remember:bigfrown somehow an abberitation to the idea that the millienial reign is here? the morals of man and man in general isnt getting better. thats the fact the hope in the bible is for those that repent. its not for the lost till they come to christ.the book of revalation is a book of hope that God is coming to judge men good and evil and too finally do away with satan. if you are in christ you have nothing to fear, but if not.. thats the gospel message. christ never said the judgment wasnt going to happen. He came so that man could escape the judgement.

Elijah here:
'Fulfilled Prophecy of the past' DOCUMENTS the Prophecy of the Future with very little difference in the bottomline!!

For well past the 120 years of the Holy Spirits Striving of Gen. 6:3, we see the same old Eccl. 3:15 DISOBEDIENT fruit offering sun worship stuff of Gen. 4:7 by the BROADWAY Cain's of today claiming Matt. 7:22's Lord, Lord, have we not... ALL THE WAY INTO Obad. 1:16's... 'WILL BE AS THOUGH THEY HAD NEVER BEEN.' By their own free choice.
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And the 'Testing' of the Mark of the Beast is nothing New. (Eccl. 3:15) One Testing of only the 7th Day Sabbath of God to see who is safe to save in the rest of Eternity! (Nah. 1:9) All Their :screwlooseEternal Law was Broken by Just Their ONE TESTING! **Exod. 16:4 & [THE REFUSAL] ibid. 28 seen is as documented in James 2:10

If one cannot follow God's quoted [REPEATED Prophesied Truth] of Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 as the Word of God, stated CLEARLY, and in a way that even most of Heb. 5's 'milkfed' ones can even get something from, of a repeated required prophetic history then, I suggest that you shy away from the preterist junkfood! And stick with just one King James translation itself. Jer. 17:5

The BOTTOM line is, is that ALL of these others ways of finding 'some' truth, are the real reasons that have caused the BIGGEST MESS OF DIS/UNITY that the GOSPEL ALONE prophesied of! See Rev. 17:5

And I realize that there are & were some who could not understand Paul's wording of inspiration.. & that it is scripture that also says that.... 'which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction'. 2 Peter 3:14-17 in part.

Forum: Eccl. 3:14.
"I know that, WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH, IT SHALL BE FOREVER: NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT, NOR ANY THING TAKEN FROM IT: ..." (in part)
Actually it is just about a repeat even in Wording, as seen in Rev.'s closing verses!
These verses are a ETERNAL WARNING about adding to or removing any part of the Word of God! And the BOTTOM line is that ones name would be removed from the Book of Life. Now for the rest of the 14th verse. "... THAT MEN SHOULD FEAR BEFORE HIM."

For one to say that the Eccl. verses do not mean what they say, is doing just that! For one to teach anything in required doctrinal truth or to remove anything of such finds the one or ones having their names removed from the Book of Life God Documents. And Fear Him?? This is done over & over again with NO Conscience of Fearing God. (as of yet, that is!)

Now look at the verse following verse 14. Verse 15 says.. "THAT WHICH HAS BEEN IS NOW; AND THAT WHICH IS TO BE HAS ALREADY BEEN; AND GOD REQUIRETH THAT WHICH IS PAST." GOD'S WORD says that it is so!

Take note: If it is not to be, God say that it will not be. Example: 'Sin will not arise a second time' Nah. 1:9. And we all know about the world flood not happening a second time? So, there are so very few times that history does not repeat, and that God does the easy thing for [us] by pointing out the lesser number. (by the way, Rev. is full of O.T. Sanctuary! see Ps. 77:13)

If anyone would BELIEVE THE *GODHEAD'S INSPIRED WORD (ALL OF IT! See 2 Tim. 3:16 & Matt. 4:4) they would find Few reasons for mixed up doctrinal folds.
But the bottom line is that even the Virgin Fold is going after the fate of Virgin Israel of old!! (same history) They are once again Christ/less. See Rev. 3:9 or Rev. 17:5! And the nasty repeat for them is VERIFIED in Eze. 9.
Try reading Rev. 12:17 S-L-O-W-L-E-Y! And in Christ's day, who do you think took over the 'DESOLATE' fold that Christ was put out of? It was Christ that stated that 'Your house (fold) is left unto you DESOLATE'. Matt. 23:38.

So, this is what will be the final fate of Spiritual Virgin Israel! See 1 Peter 4:17 FOR WHO IS JUDGED FIRST.

Back to Chapter 1:9-10 of Eccl. Lets check to 'see' (if we can) if God made a mistake? (man's foolish 'poetry' remark)

We do remember that we were told that 'IT SHALL BE FOR EVER and that NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT NOR ANYTHING TAKEN FROM IT.' (chapter 3:14-15)

"THE THING THAT HATH BEEN IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE; AND THAT WHICH IS DONE IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE DONE: AND THERE IS (NOTHING) *NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN. v.9
IS THERE [*ANY THING] WHERE OF IT MAY BE SAID, SEE, THIS IS NEW? [IT HATH BEEN ALREADY OF OLD TIME, WHICH WAS BEFORE US.]" v.10

Notice that after the GodHead's question, that Their Inspiration came quickly before 'ignorant' man could botch up the question!! But what does one hear today??

Lets just add another 'documented' fact here with these two verses.
In Gen. 41:32 the Lord gave Pharaoh a vision 'TWICE'. (remember now, that we see TWICE at least in the Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 that history is to be repeated) Also note that God has 'inspired' this thought ... "And for that the dream was [doubled] unto Pharaoh [twice]; it is [because the thing is established by God], and God will shortly bring it to pass.

So bottom line: If you want to know Truth, find it in the past history for the furture history to be! All the way from the 666 test to where God 'tested' His own in the past before they were to enter the land of their Canaan, also. And the crucifixion of Christ a second time? See Heb. 6:6!




 
Those that base their faith solely on some eschatology they haven't studied from the proper sources get angry that they may have been wrong listening for so long. And some find the truth liberating. Such were futurists in some sense- but were enlightened & fulfilled with that reality, especially knowing that Jesus kept His promises to the apostles of that new heaven & earth where righteousness dwells.
All Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled. The Bible & history confirms that we today are not in the "last days"

Emphasis of Scripture seems to be more on soteriology than eschatology. Soteriology is the study of the basis of salvation/atonement & the scheme of redemption & covenants. That was my point in the 1st place. Eschatology is the study of God's end-time plan for mankind's salvation- not the end of the world!

We are not in the end times today, as some may say we have been for 2,000+ yrs.!!

Preterism is the new reformation. It's time to get back to the preterists in the Bible. Jesus was a preterist, as were the disciples who penned the N.T.

The apostles said THEY were living in the last days.
The last days of the commonwealth of Israel- the end of the age.

Here's another lesson for today about "end-times."
THE LAST DAYS - Preterism and Preterist soteriology; Preterism and Preterist eschatology and prophecy, the last days, and the Second Coming
 
Those that base their faith solely on some eschatology they haven't studied from the proper sources get angry that they may have been wrong listening for so long. And some find the truth liberating. Such were futurists in some sense- but were enlightened & fulfilled with that reality, especially knowing that Jesus kept His promises to the apostles of that new heaven & earth where righteousness dwells.
All Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled. The Bible & history confirms that we today are not in the "last days"

Emphasis of Scripture seems to be more on soteriology than eschatology. Soteriology is the study of the basis of salvation/atonement & the scheme of redemption & covenants. That was my point in the 1st place. Eschatology is the study of God's end-time plan for mankind's salvation- not the end of the world!

We are not in the end times today, as some may say we have been for 2,000+ yrs.!!

Preterism is the new reformation. It's time to get back to the preterists in the Bible. Jesus was a preterist, as were the disciples who penned the N.T.

The apostles said THEY were living in the last days.
The last days of the commonwealth of Israel- the end of the age.

Here's another lesson for today about "end-times."
THE LAST DAYS - Preterism and Preterist soteriology; Preterism and Preterist eschatology and prophecy, the last days, and the Second Coming
I'm sure most would agree that the above is pure opinion and speculation.

Jesus Himself prophesied and warned of future events (whether they be near or far into the future).

The main issue with preterims isn't that they claim all prophecy to be fulfilled (though that is problematic), it's the many unorthodox and heretical doctrines they (some) also expound. :(
 
While I still believe that there is prophecy yet to be fulfilled, I'm also beginning to wonder more and more about the following verse:

{24} "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. Daniel 9:24 (NASB)

If the 70 weeks are all fulfilled in Christ (who finished the transgression, put an end to sin and made atonement for iniquity), wouldn't it follow that all vision and prophecy is "sealed up" in Him, too?

I've heard and read many things about this passage, but none seem to fit the idea of the completion of the Mosaic Covenant as well as this.

Thoughts, anyone?
 
We are between a rock and a hard place, on the one hand the NT and Rev in particular are saying that the whole thing(return of Christ and all that goes with it) would seem to have occured by at least 100 AD. On the other hand it would take complete insanity to believe that Christ returned and all of Rev was fulfilled in the first century. So do we believe that when God said "shortly"that it does not mean shortly as we humans would expect it to mean, or do we believe that all of Rev has been fulfilled, which is utterly ridiculous? I may not understand the former but it sure beats the latter all to pieces.
 
While I still believe that there is prophecy yet to be fulfilled, I'm also beginning to wonder more and more about the following verse:

{24} "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. Daniel 9:24 (NASB)

If the 70 weeks are all fulfilled in Christ (who finished the transgression, put an end to sin and made atonement for iniquity), wouldn't it follow that all vision and prophecy is "sealed up" in Him, too?

I've heard and read many things about this passage, but none seem to fit the idea of the completion of the Mosaic Covenant as well as this.

Thoughts, anyone?
For one thing,Jesus did not put an end to sin, unfortunately sin is still around,Jesus gave a sacrifice so that sin could be forgiven.
 
I remember singing a song as a Kid,

For God so loved the world
He gave his only son
To die on calvary's tree
from sin to set me free,
Some day he is coming back,
What glory that will be,
Wonderful His love to me.


And again in the Apostle's creed,

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.


Seems with the Preterism movement we all stopped singing that song.... wonder what the expression will be if Jesus did come back one day to appear to everyone? Could men stand it? Or do we spiritualize it away that he is safely away in heaven while Satan rules this earth and everything here remains unchanged? If so, then God truly did indeed fail and the devil won as he then stolen God's creation by Adam's fall and Jesus never is going to win it back. Yes, indeed, it's safer keeping Jesus up there in heaven where men think (subconsciously) they don't have to face the Lord here, thank goodness!

Hath God said?....... and the garden saga continues.
 
Tim from Pa,
The apostles didn't write the apostles creed. It is not canon. So called church fathers tried to decipher prophecy in scripture, but they are just glorified commentators, are they not? I mean, who had a corner on the Truth to decide that they decided what was orthodox or not? I rather be called an heretic & study the truth for myself. Just glad they can't kill you anymore bc of religion too!

And as far as forgiveness FOR sin- that is all He wrote. That's all that was needed. Jesus' blood covers our sin. And no, He didn't STOP sin nature - or free will.

He didn't take away evil either. The devil was crushed at the end of that "evil age" but his influence still goes on.

I'd love to continue with this thought, but I'm falling asleep. Hasta manana. God Bless.
 
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