Does Genesis 11-13 indicate that Canaan is located south of Egypt?

[jmt356]

Can we conclude from the following verses that Canaan is located south of Egypt, since Abram travelled southbound from Egypt prior to settling in Canaan?
- Abram was originally from Ur (Gen 11:31);
- Abram’s father took him to the land of Canaan. They settled in Haran (Gen 11:31);
- God told Abram to leave his country and his father’s house and to go to a land that He would show him (Gen 12:1).
- Abram went with his nephew Lot (Gen 12:2) towards Egypt because there was a famine in the land (Gen 12:10);
- Abram, Sarai and Lot left Egypt when Pharaoh sent them away based on a misunderstanding as to whether Abram’s wife was his sister (Gen 12:11-20);
- When Abram left Egypt, he went south (Gen 13:1);
- Abram suggested that he and Lot part (Gen 13:8). Lot journeyed east to the plain of Jordan, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen 13:10) and Abram settled in Canaan (Gen 13:12).

 

[Deborah13]

Can we conclude from the following verses that Canaan is located south of Egypt, since Abram travelled southbound from Egypt prior to settling in Canaan?
- Abram was originally from Ur (Gen 11:31);
- Abram’s father took him to the land of Canaan. They settled in Haran (Gen 11:31);
- God told Abram to leave his country and his father’s house and to go to a land that He would show him (Gen 12:1).
- Abram went with his nephew Lot (Gen 12:2) towards Egypt because there was a famine in the land (Gen 12:10);
- Abram, Sarai and Lot left Egypt when Pharaoh sent them away based on a misunderstanding as to whether Abram’s wife was his sister (Gen 12:11-20);
- When Abram left Egypt, he went south (Gen 13:1);
- Abram suggested that he and Lot part (Gen 13:8). Lot journeyed east to the plain of Jordan, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen 13:10) and Abram settled in Canaan (Gen 13:12).

http://www.bible-history.com/maps/6-abrahams-journeys.html

This is a pretty awesome history site.

 

[Karl]

Thanks Deborah for the site, .....awesome!

 

[chessman]

Does Genesis 11-13 indicate that Canaan is located south of Egypt?
No. Here’s why:

Genesis 13:1(KJV) And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.​

I live in ‘the south’. That is, I live in the southern part of the USA (thank God as I’d hate to be living in the Northeast today). I could travel to Egypt and return to where I live, return to ‘the south’ that is. To do so, however, I would be returning ‘up’ to ‘the south’ by traveling geographically north (and as it happens “up” in altitude and “up” in latitude from the near sea-level land mass in Egypt). In other words, Moses spoke of Abram traveling up to the land Yahweh had told him He would show him (the Negev or the south).
Based on the perspective of where Abram was from originally, it’s a perfectly reasonable description of that land, to call it ‘the south’. Just as it’s perfectly reasonable to call where I live, ‘the south’ even though it's geographically north of Egypt.

The Negev as that land has formally became know as, is a region of Israel that’s well attested to (pun intended) as the Judean wilderness south of Jerusalem both within the Bible as well as archeology. It includes Beersheba and other known archeological sites.

Genesis 13:1 (LEB) Then Abram went up from Egypt, he and his wife and all that was with him. And Lot went with him to the Negev.​

The perspective of Abram’s travels toward the Negev goes back to chapter 12:

Genesis 12:1 (LEB) And Yahweh said to Abram, “Go out from your land and from your relatives, and from the house of your father, to the land that I will show you.
Genesis 12:9 (LEB) And Abram kept moving on, toward the Negev.​

In other words, as Moses is using this word “the south” in verse 13:1 (and it is one word in the original Hebrew), he literally means it to describe the land that I will show you which is/was geographically south of his relative’s land (his original homeland) and south of Jerusalem.

His journey toward that land (the Negev) was interrupted by famine, so he went deep into Egypt for a little while. Yet, his journey was ultimately still toward the Negev (the south), the land that I will show you. So he traveled up to the south (the Negev) and was watered by springs welling up in the desert along the way.
There’s no contradiction within the Bible in Gen 13:1.

- When Abram left Egypt, he went south (Gen 13:1)

No. When Abram left Egypt, he went into the south (into the Negev), into the land that God showed him.

 

[jmt356]

Does Genesis 11-13 indicate that Canaan is located south of Egypt?
No. Here’s why:

Genesis 13:1(KJV) And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.​

Excellent explanation chessman. However, I am not sure I agree with the implication that “went up out of Egypt” means travelled northbound. “Went up out of Egypt” may simply mean that he “traveled from Egypt.” In fact, the International Standard Version translates the phrase as “traveled from Egypt” (without necessarily implying going north), though I must concede that all of the other major translations that I consulted use the term “went up” from Egypt.

Perhaps Abram was in the northernmost part of the Egyptian dynasty when in Gen 13:1 he went south to the land of Canaan. Or perhaps, as implied by chessman, “south” does not necessarily mean that Abram traveled south from Egypt, but rather, that he traveled to southern Canaan (i.e., the Negev). The original Hebrew of Gen 13:1 appears to support this interpretation. It states:
ויעל אברם ממצרים הוא ואשׁתו וכל־אשׁר־לו ולוט עמו הנגבה׃.
Abram went to הנגבה׃, which according to http://www.morfix.co.il/en/הנגבה׃, translates as “Negev, the southern part of Israel ; (biblical) south.” While most translations that I consulted translate הנגבה׃ as the “south,” several, including the ESV, ISV, RSV, instead translate it as the “Negev” (or “Negeb”).

Moreover, that Abram and Lot traveled from Egypt to the Negev is supported by Gen 13:8-10: Abram and Lot could not have been south of Egypt at the time they decided to part ways because Lot traveled east to the plain of Jordan, including Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen 13:10), which is located east of the Negev. Had they traveled south of Egypt, they would have wound up in modern-day Sudan. Traveling eastward from there would have taken Lot to the western cost of the Red Sea, not to the plain of Jordan.

 

[Sinthesis]

Does Genesis 11-13 indicate that Canaan is located south of Egypt?
No. Here’s why:

Genesis 13:1(KJV) And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.​

I live in ‘the south’. That is, I live in the southern part of the USA (thank God as I’d hate to be living in the Northeast today). I could travel to Egypt and return to where I live, return to ‘the south’ that is. To do so, however, I would be returning ‘up’ to ‘the south’ by traveling geographically north (and as it happens “up” in altitude and “up” in latitude from the near sea-level land mass in Egypt). In other words, Moses spoke of Abram traveling up to the land Yahweh had told him He would show him (the Negev or the south).
Based on the perspective of where Abram was from originally, it’s a perfectly reasonable description of that land, to call it ‘the south’. Just as it’s perfectly reasonable to call where I live, ‘the south’ even though it's geographically north of Egypt.

The Negev as that land has formally became know as, is a region of Israel that’s well attested to (pun intended) as the Judean wilderness south of Jerusalem both within the Bible as well as archeology. It includes Beersheba and other known archeological sites.

Genesis 13:1 (LEB) Then Abram went up from Egypt, he and his wife and all that was with him. And Lot went with him to the Negev.​

The perspective of Abram’s travels toward the Negev goes back to chapter 12:

Genesis 12:1 (LEB) And Yahweh said to Abram, “Go out from your land and from your relatives, and from the house of your father, to the land that I will show you.
Genesis 12:9 (LEB) And Abram kept moving on, toward the Negev.​

In other words, as Moses is using this word “the south” in verse 13:1 (and it is one word in the original Hebrew), he literally means it to describe the land that I will show you which is/was geographically south of his relative’s land (his original homeland) and south of Jerusalem.

His journey toward that land (the Negev) was interrupted by famine, so he went deep into Egypt for a little while. Yet, his journey was ultimately still toward the Negev (the south), the land that I will show you. So he traveled up to the south (the Negev) and was watered by springs welling up in the desert along the way.
There’s no contradiction within the Bible in Gen 13:1.

No. When Abram left Egypt, he went into the south (into the Negev), into the land that God showed him.

That's a good explanation.