Does God LOVE everybody

[Whatever]

You hear this a lot, but everybody really defines what they mean by love.

Deut 10:15 The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.

The word "delighted" according to Strongs:
Delighted = 2836. chashaq
Usage: The Hebrew verb "chashaq" primarily conveys a sense of deep affection, attachment, or love. It often implies a strong emotional bond or desire, whether between individuals or between God and His people. The term can denote both human and divine love, emphasizing a committed and intentional choice to love or be attached to someone or something.

It is clear that God is saying that He only delighted in and loved their fathers (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) above everybody else.

Amo 3:2 "You only have I known of all the families of the earth; Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities."

Known = H3045 Yada
Usage: The Hebrew verb "yada" encompasses a range of meanings related to knowledge and understanding. It is used to describe intellectual awareness, experiential knowledge, and intimate familiarity. In the biblical context, "yada" often implies a deep, personal, and relational knowledge, such as the intimate relationship between God and His people or between individuals.

I'm not trying to imply that God doesn't have some kind of benevolence toward everybody else, but God has said that there are some He delights in over others.

 

[follower]

I'm not trying to imply that God doesn't have some kind of benevolence toward everybody else, but God has said that there are some He delights in over others.

fwiw, there are some He has no benevolence for. Search Scripture cover to cover and see God State who He hates.

 

[JLB]

fwiw, there are some He has no benevolence for. Search Scripture cover to cover and see God State who He hates.

Do you believe God wants His disciples to hate their mother and father?

 

[JLB]

I'm not trying to imply that God doesn't have some kind of benevolence toward everybody else, but God has said that there are some He delights in over others.

And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17

God loves everyone in the world.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


But that doesn’t mean He is pleased with everyone in the world.

 

[tdidymas]

And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17

God loves everyone in the world.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


But that doesn’t mean He is pleased with everyone in the world.

God loves everyone in some way, but He doesn't love everyone the same. This distinction has to be realized, or else bad theology results. The Bible says that God hates those people who slander others and cause division among "brothers" (relatives, clans, tribes, groups, fellowshipers, etc.). If God's love is ultimate, then His hate is ultimate also. If God's mercy is ultimate, then His condemnation is ultimate also.

Nevertheless, there are degrees of love and hate as well. When Jesus said that people are to hate relatives and themselves, it is in comparison to their love for Him. So then, when one chooses to obey God rather than parents or relatives, it can appear like hate to the relative. For example, a person chooses to disobey parents when they want (and try to coerce) that child to marry a certain person because of worldly reasons, but instead that child leaves home to marry another Christian, whom the parents don't like. It appears as hate to them, especially in a culture where the child is supposed to marry whom the parents choose. That's just one example.

When God said "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated," people assume that God "looked ahead" to see Esau's ungodliness, and then decided to "hate" Esau (in comparison to His love for Jacob). However, this is not Paul's argument in Rom. 9. Paul wrote, "before they did anything good or bad, in order that election might stand", so Paul's argument excludes the "look ahead" idea, and focuses on God choosing to love someone over someone else, since he also quotes God saying, "I will have mercy on whom I desire."

Now, if you claim that God desires to have mercy based on His "look ahead" to see who is better at faith or obedience, then you claim that God's mercy is merited by a person's future works (behavior, decisions, choices, etc.). But if mercy is merited by future faith or anything a person does, then it's not mercy. At least it's not ultimate mercy.

Ultimate mercy is defined by Paul in Eph. 2:5, saying, "even while we were dead in transgressions and sins" (that is, having no interest in anything Godly), "He raised us up and seated us in the heavenly places in Christ (by grace are you saved)." IOW, God's free grace is the mercy Paul is talking about, and it is not given to anyone except the one whom God chooses to give it, according to Paul in Rom. 9 and Eph. 2. Thus, God loves some more than others. And such love is defined by the best action one does to bless another. It has little to do with affections and sentiment.

Most people receive justice from God, as "the wages of sin is death." But some receive mercy, since mercy is the exception and is not justice, since "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." God's gift of life is a free gift, and is given in spite of the lack of interest in godliness. It is when the person receives that gift (as a passive reception, described in Eph. 2:5), that the interest of that person changes to desire godliness. We can talk about the details, how the desires are transitioned, etc., but the point is that when a person receives that special love from God, it is the act of God, and the reaction of the person is the result.

Yes, God "wants all men to come to the knowledge of the truth," but the reality is that only a subset is elected for salvation. This is because all people are so bound in sin, that it takes a supernatural act of God to wake up a person to spiritual truth and to realize the hope that Jesus is their only way to eternal life. The point of all this is that "God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love Him, who are the called according to His purpose" means that God loved us first, more than He loves everyone else who never come to know Christ. If someone loves God, it is because God has granted them the knowledge of Himself and the wisdom to obey Him.

 

[brightfame52]

Do you believe God wants His disciples to hate their mother and father?

Yes, but not naturally, however when it comes to the Gospel and the things of God, and those natural relationships are enemies to it, then yes, we are to reject/hate our natural relationships when they are in competition to the spiritual things of God, however that doesnt mean we dont still have natural affection for our love ones according to the flesh. Its a sin to be without natural affection . David wrote Ps 139:19-22

19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.

20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.

21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Davids hate for them wasn't a personal sinful grudge, but because they were open enemies of God and His Name

 

[tdidymas]

Yes, but not naturally, however when it comes to the Gospel and the things of God, and those natural relationships are enemies to it, then yes, we are to reject/hate our natural relationships when they are in competition to the spiritual things of God, however that doesnt mean we dont still have natural affection for our love ones according to the flesh. Its a sin to be without natural affection . David wrote Ps 139:19-22

19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.

20 For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.

21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Davids hate for them wasn't a personal sinful grudge, but because they were open enemies of God and His Name

In the context of loving or hating parents:
Where does the Bible say that it is a sin to be without natural affection?

 

[Whatever]

God loves everyone in the world.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Again you are putting the emphasis on whoever as if it means everybody without exception.
The Celebration Hymnal even has a hymn titled "whosoever means even me."

Somebody already pointed out that the word "whoever" or "whosoever" is one simple word in the Greek pas which simply means all. God so loved the Cosmos (the physical creation) that He gave His only begotten Son so that all those believing in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
Rom 8:21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

The whole creation will be delivered from the bondage of corruption with those all believing.
John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

How far back does that "from the beginning" go. Does it go back to before the Father even sent Him? If so, then the Father sent the Son and the Son came so that all those He knew would believe shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Mat 7:14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The "whosoever" of John 3:16 are the few Jesus are talking about in the above verse.

 

[cherithbrook]

And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17

God loves everyone in the world.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


But that doesn’t mean He is pleased with everyone in the world.

Well we know this love has to be a different kind of love entailing great punishment, judgment, many burning in a lake of fire eternally.

Let's just be very clear in what God is saying. In the scripture it reads that God so love the world... Mankind will lean to their own understanding and rearrange the words. They will say God so loved everyone, which is a lie. Factor in the fact that God speaks often of the "God haters."

Understand it this way... When God said he will not flood the earth ever again, he was not referring to individual areas that do flood today from disasters. Likewise when God says He so loved the world, that does not include each and every individual on earth. God Himself tells us who he loves:

Proverbs 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

 

[JLB]

God loves everyone in some way, but He doesn't love everyone the same. This distinction has to be realized, or else bad theology results. The Bible says that God hates those people who slander others and cause division among "brothers" (relatives, clans, tribes, groups, fellowshipers, etc.). If God's love is ultimate, then His hate is ultimate also. If God's mercy is ultimate, then His condemnation is ultimate also.

Nevertheless, there are degrees of love and hate as well. When Jesus said that people are to hate relatives and themselves, it is in comparison to their love for Him. So then, when one chooses to obey God rather than parents or relatives, it can appear like hate to the relative. For example, a person chooses to disobey parents when they want (and try to coerce) that child to marry a certain person because of worldly reasons, but instead that child leaves home to marry another Christian, whom the parents don't like. It appears as hate to them, especially in a culture where the child is supposed to marry whom the parents choose. That's just one example.

When God said "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated," people assume that God "looked ahead" to see Esau's ungodliness, and then decided to "hate" Esau (in comparison to His love for Jacob). However, this is not Paul's argument in Rom. 9. Paul wrote, "before they did anything good or bad, in order that election might stand", so Paul's argument excludes the "look ahead" idea, and focuses on God choosing to love someone over someone else, since he also quotes God saying, "I will have mercy on whom I desire."

Now, if you claim that God desires to have mercy based on His "look ahead" to see who is better at faith or obedience, then you claim that God's mercy is merited by a person's future works (behavior, decisions, choices, etc.). But if mercy is merited by future faith or anything a person does, then it's not mercy. At least it's not ultimate mercy.

Ultimate mercy is defined by Paul in Eph. 2:5, saying, "even while we were dead in transgressions and sins" (that is, having no interest in anything Godly), "He raised us up and seated us in the heavenly places in Christ (by grace are you saved)." IOW, God's free grace is the mercy Paul is talking about, and it is not given to anyone except the one whom God chooses to give it, according to Paul in Rom. 9 and Eph. 2. Thus, God loves some more than others. And such love is defined by the best action one does to bless another. It has little to do with affections and sentiment.

Most people receive justice from God, as "the wages of sin is death." But some receive mercy, since mercy is the exception and is not justice, since "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." God's gift of life is a free gift, and is given in spite of the lack of interest in godliness. It is when the person receives that gift (as a passive reception, described in Eph. 2:5), that the interest of that person changes to desire godliness. We can talk about the details, how the desires are transitioned, etc., but the point is that when a person receives that special love from God, it is the act of God, and the reaction of the person is the result.

Yes, God "wants all men to come to the knowledge of the truth," but the reality is that only a subset is elected for salvation. This is because all people are so bound in sin, that it takes a supernatural act of God to wake up a person to spiritual truth and to realize the hope that Jesus is their only way to eternal life. The point of all this is that "God causes all things to work together for the good of those who love Him, who are the called according to His purpose" means that God loved us first, more than He loves everyone else who never come to know Christ. If someone loves God, it is because God has granted them the knowledge of Himself and the wisdom to obey Him.

The point Paul is making in Romans 9 is God is choosing people according to purpose not choosing some for salvation while choosing others for eternal destruction.

for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls. Romans 9:11

The context shows us the purpose for which God chose some and not others.


For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:3-5

So we see from the context that the purpose of the election was to establish the bloodline lineage of Christ.

Not to choose Jacob for salvation while choosing Esau for eternal damnation.

 

[JLB]

Yes

No Jesus does not want us to hate our father and mother.


Hate means prefer one to the other.

 

[Tenchi]

I'm not trying to imply that God doesn't have some kind of benevolence toward everybody else, but God has said that there are some He delights in over others.

"Some kind of benevolence"? Is mere benevolence expressed in the incredible sacrifice of Christ for the world? I don't think so. The Atonement of Christ for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2; Hebrews 10:10, 12), his humiliation in becoming a man (Philippians 2:5-8), his further humiliation in being abused and killed by wicked men (Acts 2:23), his separation from God the Father (Mark 15:34), becoming sin for us who knew no sin (2 Corinthians 5:21) far, far, far exceeds "benevolence." God has a love for all - sinners and saved alike - that is mind-blowing.

What does it mean, though, for God to "love the world" (John 3:16)? I think Scripture gives us good cause to understand that the essence of His love is desire - in particular, a desire for our well-being. But God's idea of our well-being and our idea of it differs widely. He is Himself the Apex, the essential Core, of our well-being. If we have Him as our God and Father, we are well, though all else is a devastated catastrophe. And in God, we have a supreme wellness that extends into eternity, indissoluble and unchanging.

Imagine a man who has in his possession a ring. (No, not that one. It's been destroyed, right?) The ring is a symbol of the fellow's royal blood, of wealth beyond description and authority. The ring confirms that the bearer is a child of the King and due all the privileges of a member of the royal family. The man has been on a long journey, in disguise travelling the lands of his Father, his ring hidden in a secret pocket in his shirt. After many months, he is dirty, and tired, having narrowly surviving death at the hands of bandits several times who've stolen from him all of his travelling gear and money. He is hungry and cold, too, and wishing desperately for home.

But, you know, the prince is still buoyant, a deep persistent joy filling him as he makes his way homeward. Within himself, he is well because he knows who he is, he knows who his Father is, and he knows nothing in his circumstances can ever alter his royal blood. When he arrives at the gates of the palace, dirty and desperate though he will be, the prince knows he will receive a royal welcome and all that is his birthright as a child of the King. What joy, what comfort, what peace this knowledge brings!

When the prince stands at the gates of the palace, his gaunt, weathered face covered with a thick, dusty beard, clothing caked with dried mud, soiled by many nights of sleeping upon the ground, the guards do not recognize him. Gruffly, they challenge him, demanding he identify himself and his business at the palace. For a few moments the prince fumbles at his shirt, finally withdrawing his royal ring and putting it on his finger. As he lifts the ring on his finger to the eyes of the guards, the prince names himself, smiling broadly at their shocked expression. Hastily, the guards apologize for their challenging words and open the gates to him, one of them running ahead of the prince into the palace shouting out the prince's return.

My point in this little story is to highlight how the prince's relationship to his Father, the King, ameliorated all the hardships of his journey. No matter the desperateness of his circumstances, the prince's possession of a relationship to the King, signified by the ring, was able to counter all of the misery he endured. And so, the prince was always well within himself, secure in his relationship to his Father and joyful at the prospect of coming home to him.

In the same way, our well-being is to be anchored in our Heavenly Father, our God and King. When it is, the things we usually associate with well-being - easy, happy circumstances, material abundance, and good physical health - can collapse and we can still be joyful and content.

God's love for all the world, then, is a desire for the supreme well-being of all of His human creatures which is found in Himself. He would make princes and princesses of all who would make Him their God and King. "He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9). God desires that "all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4). God's love, then, isn't expressed in Him having a greater feeling of affection for one person above another; it isn't about God liking some people more than others. This is how we carry on with each other, but it is a mistake, I think, to imagine that God actually behaves just as we do in this regard. Scripture may speak - in a very approximate way - of God loving some and hating others, but what is actually true of God in His "love" or "hatred" of people we can't ever fully, properly comprehend.

 

[JLB]

Again you are putting the emphasis on whoever as if it means everybody without exception.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

Here is my post below.

Where did I emphasize whoever?


For God so loved the world…

Where does Jesus exclude God’s love of people from this phrase the world?

And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17

God loves everyone in the world.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


But that doesn’t mean He is pleased with everyone in the world.

 

[JLB]

Let's just be very clear in what God is saying. In the scripture it reads that God so love the world... Mankind will lean to their own understanding and rearrange the words. They will say God so loved everyone, which is a lie. Factor in the fact that God speaks often of the "God haters."

For God so loved the world…

Where does Jesus exclude God’s love of people from this phrase the world?

“Factoring in” your own understanding into God’s word is a dangerous thing to do and can lead you into trouble.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

 

[brightfame52]

In the context of loving or hating parents:
Where does the Bible say that it is a sin to be without natural affection?

I dont know what you talking about.

 

[brightfame52]

No Jesus does not want us to hate our father and mother.


Hate means prefer one to the other.

i explained what I meant

 

[Whatever]

Where does Jesus exclude God’s love of people from this phrase the world?

John 17:6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world.
John 17:9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

 

[tdidymas]

The point Paul is making in Romans 9 is God is choosing people according to purpose not choosing some for salvation while choosing others for eternal destruction.

for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls. Romans 9:11

The context shows us the purpose for which God chose some and not others.


For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:3-5

So we see from the context that the purpose of the election was to establish the bloodline lineage of Christ.

Not to choose Jacob for salvation while choosing Esau for eternal damnation.

God has a purpose, but the election is of individuals. God didn't choose "a way to salvation" in which no individual was chosen. In Eph. 1 it says clearly that He chose US in Christ, that is, He chose individuals. I agree that God has a purpose, and He chose us for that purpose. It doesn't negate the fact that He chose individuals.

Yet, Jacob was indeed chosen for salvation, and Esau indeed was NOT chosen for salvation, but allowed to go his own ungodly way, since there is no indication in scripture that Esau was eventually and finally saved. But there is every indication that Jacob was saved. So in that, I disagree with your assertion.

 

[tdidymas]

I dont know what you talking about.

I'm responding to your assertion:
"Its a sin to be without natural affection." and then you quote a portion of Ps. 136 that says nothing about natural affection. So I'm wondering where you're getting that. It's an assertion that doesn't fit the text quoted.

Certainly unnatural affections are wrong, as Paul attests in Rom. 1, but that is not the same thing as "without natural affection." What if someone does not have any natural affection toward anyone, and yet does what is right because he fears God? Would you judge such a person that he is living in sin?

This is in the context of your response to the question about hating parents. Are we on the same page now? Can you give a scripture reference backing up your assertion?

 

[Whatever]

"He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9). God desires that "all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:4).

Nice long story. You talk a lot about God's desire. Well so does God.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

Pleasure= Strong's H2656 - ḥēp̄eṣ
Outline of Biblical Usage
delight, pleasure
1. delight
2. desire, longing
3. the good pleasure
4. that in which one takes delight

1. God desires that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth
2. God will do all His pleasure, desire, delight.
3. Therefore, all men will be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.
Something don't fit there. Either #1 is wrong or #2 is.

Calvinists don't take words at their blank meaning. They have a context.
1 Timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Paul already used "all men" in verse 1.
1Ti 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men
If Paul meant every human being without exception, why does he go to explain what he meant in the next verse?
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in authority . . .
Aren't kings and those in authority included in "all men.?"
Here is how Strongs shows how pas is used:
individually
1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
collectively
1. some of all types
It is obvious that "some of all types" is meant. Pray for all types of people, like kings and those in authority.
It is also obvious that Paul means it the same way in verse 4.
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Remember God will do all His pleasure or desire. So what does God end up accomplishing? He saves all kinds of men.
Rev_7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues . . .
You have the same thing with your 2 Peter 3:9 passage. Who is Peter writing to?
2Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us.
2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

You guys can ignore contexts in order to get the Bible to say what you think it ought to say, or wish it says and then have contradictions like God's desire not coming to pass, but in the end it won't matter cause I have a feeling that this will be deleted because I didn't say it nice enough.