Does God Require Self-Growth?

[KevinK]

So being a Christian means recognizing you are flawed and a sinner, and can never match God's perfection. Ultimately you will be judged to be a sinner, no matter how few or small, and can only be saved through the blood sacrifice on the Cross. Does this mean you should stop trying to be a better person? Does Scripture say anything about pursuing self-growth?

 

[th1b.taylor]

I believe you might want to read the Book of James in the Testament. Growth is not so much a requirement as it is a certainty with the saved man and woman.

As I recall it you are still a very young Christian and I am going to clue you into, perhaps the greatest book you will ever discover, save the Bible itself. Since you appear to be publishing from a computer, running windoze, Mac or Linux you can run e-Sword and it is a free download without virus danger when downloaded from www.e-sword.net.

If you are, like myself, running one of the better than 1200 free Linux systems you will need Wine installed but it runs the program as good as it were native to Linux. Mac, I believe has a windoze emulator but I'm not certain of it's name and then again, they might have created the Mac/Apple version by now. After you install e-Sword, in the Tool Bar click downloads and Bibles.

After you have selected 15, 20 or as many of the free Bibles as you wish, scroll to Dictionaries and click to install the Nave's and any other free books, maps and other stuff as you wish and click Downloads in that window and let it install everything for you.

When it is finished, restart, only, the program to use your books and Bibles. Then, anytime you have a question, open the Nave's and look up the subject and it will give you a complete Bible study of the subject, verse by verse. Use that and people will demand to know where you graduated seminary.

 

[KevinK]

OK, thank you , Bill.

 

[th1b.taylor]

OK, thank you , Bill.

I really was called to teach but I so prefer teaching folks how to learn and these tools are beyond value to me and i pray they will be to you. If you have a favorite such as I love the NASB, I paid Twenty Dollars and installed it in e-Sword also. And all my Teacher and Preacher Associates also use these tools.

Nave was a Ships Chaplin and as I understand, it took him twenty years to compile this work. I also own a hard copy that cost me twenty-five.
May God bless your studies.

 

[Wrg1405]

So being a Christian means recognizing you are flawed and a sinner, and can never match God's perfection. Ultimately you will be judged to be a sinner, no matter how few or small, and can only be saved through the blood sacrifice on the Cross. Does this mean you should stop trying to be a better person? Does Scripture say anything about pursuing self-growth?

I think our sins were judged on the cross, when we place our faith in Jesus as the son of God who died and rose again because of our sins then they are forgiven. So we have been judged as sinners and the price has been paid.

We are not saved by works or by self improvement.

We are saved by faith but it doesn't stop there. It doesn't give us a license to sin and do what we want.
Even after faith our efforts of self improvement or following certain rituals or rules does not continue to keep us saved. It's our faith in Jesus that continues to save.

So when people stand before God they will be judged. We find the scenario that Jesus gives when he separates the sheep from the goats.

The sheep enter the kingdom of God, the goats do not. What is interesting is that the sheep are told "My good and faithful servants" the sheep are surprised because Jesus praises them for the things they have done (works as such)
Jesus relates to them the things they have done for others as being the same as doing it to him.

Matthew 25:34-40
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’
“Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
“And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’

As for the goats.

Matthew 25:41-46
“Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’
“Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’
“And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”

What is interesting is that the sheep in a sense question Jesus with and say we never fed you and the goats with we never saw you hungry, and Jesus says "What you did for someone else you did for me and want you didn't do for someone else you didn't do for me"

So to me it seems that the sheep when judged are considered righteous not because of a prayer along the lines of "I beleive in Jesus" but judged because that prayer shows evidence of what they prayed.

The goats never saw Jesus.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

It doesn't seem like they fed the poor, welcomed in a stranger, gave someone a drink, visited the sick.

Self improvement is not the issue, a genuine belief in Jesus is the issue. Jesus knew that we could not self improve to the extent to meet Gods standard. Jesus himself said that he must go back to the Father so the Holy Sprit must come to convict the world of its sin, that sin being unbelief in him. When we come to place of beleiving in him we have the Holy Spirit in us who teaches us the way Jesus. We don't sit back and say "Ok Holy Spirit you take over and I'll sit back and we don't say "Ok now I will embark on a programe of self improvement" we have to work with the Holy Spirit to become more like Jesus"

We are saved to do good works.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

We love because he first loved us.

 

[GodsGrace]

So being a Christian means recognizing you are flawed and a sinner, and can never match God's perfection. Ultimately you will be judged to be a sinner, no matter how few or small, and can only be saved through the blood sacrifice on the Cross. Does this mean you should stop trying to be a better person? Does Scripture say anything about pursuing self-growth?

Kevin,
We should not stop trying to be a better person. The reason Jesus had a ministry was to teach people how to be better. His purpose was to be a sacrifice for whoever accepts Him, but His ministry was to teach a way of living. Just read Mathew 5, 6 and 7.

Also, to answer your question, I'd go to Romans 12:1-2

Romans 12:1
First you present yourself a living sacrifice. That means that you offer everything you do to God: Going to work or school, eating, sleeping, playing, helping others - everything. In the O.T. sacrifice, the entire animal ws sacrificed to God, so we are to be a complete sacrifice. But we are a Living sacrifice - while alive we are to sacrifice ourselves , we are not dead as the animals were once sacrificed.

Romans 12:2
We are not to be conformed to this world. We should NOT fit in. This world is not our home. We should not feel very comfortable here - in fact if we feel comfortable it means we are a part of it! It is said:
We are IN the world, but not OF the world. The world means the state of affairs that we find ourselves in at this moment; our customs, our fashions, our entertainment - everything. The world is opposed to the spirit of Christ. The beatitudes in Mathew 5:1-10 teach us to be the exact opposite of what the world would consider a smart of successful person.

So yes, we should strive to be better persons and to grow in the Lord.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Kevin,
We should not stop trying to be a better person. The reason Jesus had a ministry was to teach people how to be better. His purpose was to be a sacrifice for whoever accepts Him, but His ministry was to teach a way of living. Just read Mathew 5, 6 and 7.

Also, to answer your question, I'd go to Romans 12:1-2

Romans 12:1
First you present yourself a living sacrifice. That means that you offer everything you do to God: Going to work or school, eating, sleeping, playing, helping others - everything. In the O.T. sacrifice, the entire animal ws sacrificed to God, so we are to be a complete sacrifice. But we are a Living sacrifice - while alive we are to sacrifice ourselves , we are not dead as the animals were once sacrificed.

Romans 12:2
We are not to be conformed to this world. We should NOT fit in. This world is not our home. We should not feel very comfortable here - in fact if we feel comfortable it means we are a part of it! It is said:
We are IN the world, but not OF the world. The world means the state of affairs that we find ourselves in at this moment; our customs, our fashions, our entertainment - everything. The world is opposed to the spirit of Christ. The beatitudes in Mathew 5:1-10 teach us to be the exact opposite of what the world would consider a smart of successful person.

So yes, we should strive to be better persons and to grow in the Lord.

There goes Romans 12:1 again, see it? My first Pastor taught me the problem with living sacrifices is they keep getting up and walking away... a little church humor but also a lot of truth.

 

[GodsGrace]

There goes Romans 12:1 again, see it? My first Pastor taught me the problem with living sacrifices is they keep getting up and walking away... a little church humor but also a lot of truth.

I know what you mean Bill.
But you've gotta keep tryin'.
It's better than being a dead sacrifice!
Alive. Alive for Christ.

It just means to do everything for God. Whatever you do, do it for Him.
Right?

 

[IncredibleTransformation]

I believe that the Lord requires us to mature in Him. There are scriptures that talk at being mature like 1 Cor 2:6, We speak wisdom among those who are mature."

In 1 Cor. 14:20 Paul says, "Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature."

Hebrews 5:12-13 it says, For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belong to those who are full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their sences exercised to discern both good and evil."

When we are "born again" we are like babies, we need to be feed the milk of the word. When we become more mature we can be fed meat. Spiritual maturity is very important because the devil, the world, and the flesh will try and take you out with every wave. When you become mature you can stand against the attacks of the devil because you know the difference between the works of the devil and the works of the Lord.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I know what you mean Bill.
But you've gotta keep tryin'.
It's better than being a dead sacrifice!
Alive. Alive for Christ.

It just means to do everything for God. Whatever you do, do it for Him.
Right?

I know but Jesus is going to get tired one of these days watching me crawl up on that altar.

 

[GodsGrace]

I know but Jesus is going to get tired one of these days watching me crawl up on that altar.

He never gets tired as long as we're doing our best - and He knows if we're doing our best.
He is long-suffering, wishing that none should perish.

I know it has to do with the end times, but I love that scripture even applied in a general sense. As long as we're walking toward God, it doesn't matter how many times we fall, as long as we get back up and keep walking toward Him. This is what I used to tell my religion kids.

I know you agree with this.
It's so comforting...

 

[Edward]

Yes, He wants us to mature in Christ. The problem is, we are to become as little children first. Matthew 18:3-4

That's easy once you get serious about the Lord because one realizes very fast that...I can't do it. We can do nothing without Him.

Just like a little child that wants to help, but is more of a hindrance than a help. It's very humbling to be at that place.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, He wants us to mature in Christ. The problem is, we are to become as little children first. Matthew 18:3-4

That's easy once you get serious about the Lord because one realizes very fast that...I can't do it. We can do nothing without Him.

Just like a little child that wants to help, but is more of a hindrance than a help. It's very humbling to be at that place.

I used to tell kids why Jesus loves them. They listen, they trust, they accept. I have a whole lesson on this.

I never thought of what you said above:
They want to help, but they're more of a hindrance than a help.

I like that Edward. Will add it.
Like a kid that wants to help make the cake and it just creates more work for the mother.

Great!

 

[Edward]

I used to tell kids why Jesus loves them. They listen, they trust, they accept. I have a whole lesson on this.

I never thought of what you said above:
They want to help, but they're more of a hindrance than a help.

I like that Edward. Will add it.
Like a kid that wants to help make the cake and it just creates more work for the mother.

Great!

That's exactly what I was thinking.

The only reason I even know that is because its where I am right now. Pride had to die to get me to realize that..

 

[JLB]

So being a Christian means recognizing you are flawed and a sinner, and can never match God's perfection. Ultimately you will be judged to be a sinner, no matter how few or small, and can only be saved through the blood sacrifice on the Cross. Does this mean you should stop trying to be a better person? Does Scripture say anything about pursuing self-growth?

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 2 Peter 1:5-9


This is the reason God placed Bill here among us, to encourage us to grow in these things.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I know but Jesus is going to get tired one of these days watching me crawl up on that altar.

You mean you weren't in intercession for me, when you were there on the altar?

 

[IncredibleTransformation]

I know but Jesus is going to get tired one of these days watching me crawl up on that altar.

Does He ever get tired of us crawling to Him for help? I hope not cause I do it all the time.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Self-help, self-growth, self-actualization, etc....these are worldly alternatives to what Christ offers. Trust me; before I got saved, I'd been destroyed in large part by Self, and alot of that was fueled by psychology and psychiatry.

Now...the way I see it...we are to die to self daily. You lose your life in order to gain it. New creation in Christ Jesus. No longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me.

That's the Christian take on growth and maturity. I've come to think that its the opposite of counseling, therapy, self-help, etc. The focus (thankfully) is not on you/me, but on Christ. In the process, you/I gradually lose yourself/myself, a little bit at a time.

I think...I think developing a Christian worldview, living out Christian morality, becoming less self and more Christ...these things will result in bearing fruit, which is not only becoming a better person (even by the world's standards), but also becoming a spiritually mature, seasoned Christian (as other posters have pointed out, also).

So...do be careful with what the world's selling you in terms of self-growth and stuff. Satan comes as an angel of light. All that glitters is not gold. Self is dangerous, when its indulged and allowed to grow and take over, unchecked.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

The only reason I even know that is because its where I am right now. Pride had to die to get me to realize that..

Pride and egotism.
At the root of almost all sin.
And much human misery - which we humans bring about.

 

[GodsGrace]

Self-help, self-growth, self-actualization, etc....these are worldly alternatives to what Christ offers. Trust me; before I got saved, I'd been destroyed in large part by Self, and alot of that was fueled by psychology and psychiatry.

Now...the way I see it...we are to die to self daily. You lose your life in order to gain it. New creation in Christ Jesus. No longer I who lives, but Christ who lives in me.

That's the Christian take on growth and maturity. I've come to think that its the opposite of counseling, therapy, self-help, etc. The focus (thankfully) is not on you/me, but on Christ. In the process, you/I gradually lose yourself/myself, a little bit at a time.

I think...I think developing a Christian worldview, living out Christian morality, becoming less self and more Christ...these things will result in bearing fruit, which is not only becoming a better person (even by the world's standards), but also becoming a spiritually mature, seasoned Christian (as other posters have pointed out, also).

So...do be careful with what the world's selling you in terms of self-growth and stuff. Satan comes as an angel of light. All that glitters is not gold. Self is dangerous, when its indulged and allowed to grow and take over, unchecked.

I very much agree with everything you've said.
The way to being a better person is to be spiritually mature.
We do need to help ourselves (self-help) grow in the Lord (self-growth) and actualize who we are in Christ (self-actualization).
The trick is to get the word "self" out of there.

By ourselves we can do nothing.
John 15:5
2 Corinthians 3:5

But if we change in God's way, as I also quoted Romans 12:1-2, and FOR God, and In HIS power, then we truly become better. God's better, not the world's better - which could mean something totally different.

We become better for ourselves (in acceptance and change) and we become better for others (in service).

Psychologists know SELF. How to keep Self happy, at the cost of everything and everyone else.
This is not God's way and completely contradicts His ways. So how could it possibly function?
If those around me are unhappy so I could be happy, how does that help anyone? God desires that we propagate His peace. And He will take care of us.


W