Does God Require Self-Growth?

[Hospes]

Growth is not so much a requirement as it is a certainty with the saved man and woman.

 

[smaller]

There are actually two workings, going in the opposite or opposing direction:

2 Corinthians 4:16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

 

[th1b.taylor]

He never gets tired as long as we're doing our best - and He knows if we're doing our best.
He is long-suffering, wishing that none should perish.

I know it has to do with the end times, but I love that scripture even applied in a general sense. As long as we're walking toward God, it doesn't matter how many times we fall, as long as we get back up and keep walking toward Him. This is what I used to tell my religion kids.

I know you agree with this.
It's so comforting...

Yes, I absolutely do but I am also a natural clown. Every time I roll off I stand up, walk back and rededicate... with a broken spirt because of my failure.

 

[th1b.taylor]

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 2 Peter 1:5-9


This is the reason God placed Bill here among us, to encourage us to grow in these things.



JLB

Me thinks you might place, entirely, too much importance on one old fossil.

 

[th1b.taylor]

You mean you weren't in intercession for me, when you were there on the altar?

Intercession? I'm still trying to get the 12:1 thing right!

 

[th1b.taylor]

I believe that the Lord requires us to mature in Him. There are scriptures that talk at being mature like 1 Cor 2:6, We speak wisdom among those who are mature."

In 1 Cor. 14:20 Paul says, "Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature."

Hebrews 5:12-13 it says, For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belong to those who are full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their sences exercised to discern both good and evil."

When we are "born again" we are like babies, we need to be feed the milk of the word. When we become more mature we can be fed meat. Spiritual maturity is very important because the devil, the world, and the flesh will try and take you out with every wave. When you become mature you can stand against the attacks of the devil because you know the difference between the works of the devil and the works of the Lord.

And all of this is also to be measured against Psalm 46:10.

 

[Wrg1405]

I have seen Romans 12:1-2 quoted above. I think we need to look at both verses.

Romans 12:1-2

And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God because of all he has done for you. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice—the kind he will find acceptable. This is truly the way to worship him. Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God’s will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.

Yes we are give our bodies to him because of what he has done for us in a way that he finds acceptable, that doesn't copy the ways of the world. This is what he finds acceptable and is a form of worship.

Then we find that we need to allow God transform us into the new person he has called us to be by allowing HIM, to change us, to change the we think, that's when we get to know his will.

If we try to change ourselves by self growth then we are not allowing God to transform us into his own image. In a sense we are saying "I will in my own strength to change to please you then I am acceptable to you, make you love me"

To me that's twisted because within and in ourselves there is nothing we can do in terms of works that God will find acceptable. Our works are like filthy rags. He loved us enough to die as were are.

What is pleasing to God is our acceptance of Jesus, what is pleasing to God is to allow him to change the way we think, renewing our mind. That is when we learn Gods will is for us. That will is to love others, everyone just as Jesus did. It is God who conforms us to the image of Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

When we focus on Jesus and pray "I so much want to be like you" Then we take away the focus of works to please God. To me when we do that we become the new person and the works follow

 

[IncredibleTransformation]

The

There are actually two workings, going in the opposite or opposing direction:

2 Corinthians 4:16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

The flesh and the spirit are always going to fight one another. It is an unfortunate part of being human and a Christian at the same time.

 

[smaller]

The

The flesh and the spirit are always going to fight one another. It is an unfortunate part of being human and a Christian at the same time.

It is always the honeymoon christian who thinks of God as only Love. The reality is that the Spirit is contrary to and against our own sorry hides, not it's friend, not it's lover, Gal. 5:17.

And we should be wise to figure that out, and not let the flesh think otherwise and get the best of us.

 

[for_his_glory]

If we are not growing then we will always remain on the milk of the word of God and never get to taste the goodness of the seasoned meat found therein. We are all sinners saved by grace through faith as it is Gods grace that pardons us as His mercy loves us.

Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Hospes]

It is always the honeymoon christian who thinks of God as only Love. The reality is that the Spirit is contrary to and against our own sorry hides, not it's friend, not it's lover, Gal. 5:17.

And we should be wise to figure that out, and not let the flesh think otherwise and get the best of us.

You ever read John Owen's The Mortification of Sin? It is on my short list of things needed read, but from what I understand, you may find it good.

 

[Hospes]

Intercession? I'm still trying to get the 12:1 thing right!

Best place to start is 11:33. I think if we could really lay the foundation of the end of chapter 11, we'd find something to build 12:1 on.

 

[smaller]

You ever read John Owen's The Mortification of Sin? It is on my short list of things needed read, but from what I understand, you may find it good.

No I have not. Very few teach well on these matters, primarily because they allow themselves personal exemptions. And I tend to discount anything that is not the "whole" story. Most teach sinlessness is achievable. I don't buy it. Paul actually landed on the complete opposite conclusion. 1 Tim. 1:15. I personally have never read any preacher describing "how to get there" and instead promote the opposite quest which I consider to be entirely futile. (Picked up the pdf portion online, free, as I was doing this post. Will brief through it.)

It is much more difficult to understand that "sinlessness" and "utter sinfulness" abide in the same set of shoes. Believers really don't care to hear of it, but it is available to see. Here is Paul's picture of "me."

Romans 9:
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Can't have one without the other. Not in this present life anyway.

 

[KevinK]

To put an additional spin on this, what about after you get into Heaven (assuming you make it)- do you grow there somehow, spiritually, intellectually, physically (oh, I guess not physically)?

 

[smaller]

To put an additional spin on this, what about after you get into Heaven (assuming you make it)- do you grow there somehow, spiritually, intellectually, physically (oh, I guess not physically)?

The 'end game' was laid out by Paul, here, showing the Divine Intentions of Jesus in putting down ALL enemies, and the eventual goal for the creation:

1 Cor. 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[KevinK]

The 'end game' was laid out by Paul, here, showing the Divine Intentions of Jesus in putting down ALL enemies, and the eventual goal for the creation:

1 Cor. 15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Not sure how this addresses the question?