Does the Antichrist come from the bottoless pit?

[NJBeliever]

Revelation 17: 8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: ..."

Revelation 11: 7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Revelation 17: 8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: ..."

Revelation 11: 7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The beast was(meaning it had existed before John wrote that verse).
The beast is not(meaning it did not exist when John wrote that verse)
The beast has recieved a deadly wound in 70 ad and the world thought it all but dead.
It appeared again in 1948 and many were astonished.Those whos names are not written follow after it.

 

[reba]

Can ya find 'antichrist' in The Revelation?

 

[Hitch]

Can ya find 'antichrist' in The Revelation?

Chapter 23 duh.

 

[NJBeliever]

Can ya find 'antichrist' in The Revelation?

Your question presupposes that I am limited to only using terms from Revelation. The book of Matthew does not have the term "Savior." So am I not allowed to call Jesus "the Savior" when quoting Matthew??

 

[reba]

Your question presupposes that I am limited to only using terms from Revelation. The book of Matthew does not have the term "Savior." So am I not allowed to call Jesus "the Savior" when quoting Matthew??

If one is 'quoting Matthew' then no one could not use 'the Saviour'.

 

[NJBeliever]

If one is 'quoting Matthew' then no one could not use 'the Saviour'.

Well, I thought you'd realize my question was rhetorical. lol.

But all this is digression. I just really wanted to know if people in the forum had any thoughts on the Antichrist coming from the bottomless pit.

 

[reba]

Well, I thought you'd realize my question was rhetorical. lol.

Sure but i answered to make the point.

Some how we think it is OK to change/slightly alter the Word of God. It bugs me.

Antichrist is only mentioned 5 times in Scripture (KJB) and only in the Little Books of John.

Odd not one verse says "The antichrist"

We are to look for His return.

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Sure we are to know what is going on around us, but so much attention is given to the 'dark side' we are to walk in the LIGHT




Yup i am strange... And i too am interested the responses

 

[NJBeliever]

You are focused on the light but choose to come in and comment on a thread about the antichrist?? Strange...

anyways, I am sorry if I offended or bugged you with my topic. It was definitely not my intention.

I just genuinely wanted the thoughts of others on the posted verses.

 

[NJBeliever]

So.....still curious if anyone has any thoughts on these verses.

 

[Hitch]

Revelation 17: 8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: ..."

Revelation 11: 7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

AntiChrist is anyone ,or anything, that defines Christ in a manner contrary to the NT. For example, the NT declares that Christ was born of a virgin ,lived and died bodily, rose bodily from the grave, was and is very God and fully human,, Second Person of the Trinity.
So the Neros ,Hitlers and Pol Pots of history were probably antiChrists, but no more than the local mormon bishop or the guys with white shirts and ties riding bicycles. So your passages describe the ultimate origin of the counterfiet doctrines whether they are the stuff of NAZI monsters or the nice little old lady who tells folks Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

John writing of antichrist said there were many antichrists in his day.
John said the antichrist claims that Christ has not come in the flesh.

Now in Johns day the only people who were claimimg that Christ had not come in the flesh were jews.
Thats correct.The jewish leaders who rejected Christ were claiming that Christ had not come.They were denying that he was the Messiah.Even today there are many antichrists still claiming Christ hasnt come.

As for the beast that was,and was not and yet is,
It calls itself by the name of Israel and the synagogue of Satan is the Knesset.



Dan 7;25
And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

If your waiting for this beast to appear in Jerusalem ,he is aready there.
Only a few more years and he shall begin to kill the saints.
Jesus said who it is that shall kill these saints long ,long ago.You have to believe him though.

Mt 23;34
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:

This verse should at least convince you to pay closer attention to that little nation known as the little horn.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Rev17;10-11
And there are seven kings;five are fallen, and one is,and the other is not yet come;and when he cometh,he must continue a short space.And the beast that was,and is not,even he is the eighth ,and is of the seven,and goeth into perdition.

The seven kings that have reigned over Israel
Five that were fallen.
Egypt,Assyrian,Babylon,Persia,and Macedonia.
One that was at the time John wrote this-Rome.
Then came the Dispora
The one who would come and continue a short space,who the people of Israel were gatherd under-
Great britian.
The eighth is that kingdom that once was,then was not when John wrote this,but now is again today.
The kingdom that calls itself by the name of Israel.


The things written about the beast can be found in a 5th grade jewish history book.
These things are written for Israel to understand easily.
If there is an Israelite who believes Jesus is the Christ.Jesus will show him the things that must shortly come to pass.They would have absolutely no problem understanding what they are faced with.

 

[NJBeliever]

Rev17;10-11
And there are seven kings;five are fallen, and one is,and the other is not yet come;and when he cometh,he must continue a short space.And the beast that was,and is not,even he is the eighth ,and is of the seven,and goeth into perdition.

The seven kings that have reigned over Israel
Five that were fallen.
Egypt,Assyrian,Babylon,Persia,and Macedonia.
One that was at the time John wrote this-Rome.
Then came the Dispora
The one who would come and continue a short space,who the people of Israel were gatherd under-
Great britian.
The eighth is that kingdom that once was,then was not when John wrote this,but now is again today.
The kingdom that calls itself by the name of Israel.


The things written about the beast can be found in a 5th grade jewish history book.
These things are written for Israel to understand easily.
If there is an Israelite who believes Jesus is the Christ.Jesus will show him the things that must shortly come to pass.They would have absolutely no problem understanding what they are faced with.

So what is your interpretation of the verses in the OP?

 

[David505]

So.....still curious if anyone has any thoughts on these verses.

Thanks NJBeliever,

This is a complicated question; first, because it calls into question the nature of Antichrist and deals with multiple events; and second, because answers are subject to interpretive bias.

Here goes:

Although John plainly tells us Antichrist is anyone “that denieth the Father and the Son (1 John 2:22),” it also seems evident that John anticipated an archetypal Antichrist: “it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come…(1 John 2:18).”

If John did anticipate an archetype, forthcoming questions concern Antichrist’s nature. Is he a man, a people, a nation, etc? Any answers will depend upon one’s predispositions.

I think Antichrist will be a man who appears to have risen from death to life, and who will perform as an object of worship in Lucifer’s stead (in place of Christ) from Israel’s Most Holy Place during Daniel’s 70th Week:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Thessalonians 2:3,4,9

Insofar as Antichrist’s “coming is after the working of Satan (2 Thess. 2:9),” I wonder if Antichrist accepts worship on behalf of Lucifer, or if Antichrist is Lucifer personified? I tend to expect the latter, Lucifer’s person (intellect / persona) cohabiting a human form.

Respecting the following:

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is (Rev. 17:8).

And when they [two witnesses] shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them (Rev. 11:7).

Antichrist ‘was’ when he lived as a mortal man. He ‘is not’ because he has died. He ‘yet is’ because he appears to have risen from death to life. If Antichrist is Lucifer personified, his human host will be cast into “a lake of fire (Rev. 19:20)” at the end of the 70th Week. Thereafter, Lucifer will ‘ascend out of the bottomless pit’ after the Millennium. In the interim (during the 70th Week), Lucifer as Antichrist will ‘overcome’ and ‘kill’ the two witnesses.

Again, tough question.

 

[Hitch]

Antichrist ‘was’ when he lived as a mortal man. He ‘is not’ because he has died. He ‘yet is’ because he appears to have risen from death to life. If Antichrist is Lucifer personified, his human host will be cast into “a lake of fire (Rev. 19:20)†at the end of the 70th Week. Thereafter, Lucifer will ‘ascend out of the bottomless pit’ after the Millennium. In the interim (during the 70th Week), Lucifer as Antichrist will ‘overcome’ and ‘kill’ the two witnesses.

Again, tough question.

I cant find this definition in any of the passages in which 'antiChrist' appears.

 

[David505]

I cant find this definition in any of the passages in which 'antiChrist' appears.

It's just what I think, subject to my own interpretive bias, and again, a tough question.

Similarly, I can't find 'Trinity' anywhere in the Bible. Nevertheless, I interpret the sum of references to the Father, Son, and Spirit as indicative of a triune God.

In keeping with the topic, and semantic loopholes aside, what's your response to the question?

 

[Alabaster]

The Antichrist is a man who comes to power and is given such power that it covers the bulk of the strongest nations of the world. Think: European Economic Community (or EU, now).

He will sit in power and be loved by all as a man of peace and wisdom. However, part way into his 'reign', he will deviate from his course and reign down terror upon the nations. Why? Because Satan will enter him and take control. (Satan is not in the pit now, so the Antichrist's power isn't from there.)

He will wreak havoc on Israel and on those who are brave enough to stand up for Jesus Christ, until Jesus comes to end his hold on the world and cast him into the pit for 1000 years.

 

[Hitch]

It's just what I think, subject to my own interpretive bias, and again, a tough question.

Similarly, I can't find 'Trinity' anywhere in the Bible. Nevertheless, I interpret the sum of references to the Father, Son, and Spirit as indicative of a triune God.

In keeping with the topic, and semantic loopholes aside, what's your response to the question?

Well the difference between Trinity and antiChrist is that antiChrist is defined by name in the scriptures.

My answer then is to submit to the revelation in this case John's definition. Which does not grant any special place or powers ,especially world domination to antiChrist.

Was Hitler an antiChrist ? Certainly

Was Mao an antiChrist ? Certainly

Joey Smith ? Absolutely. Jim Jones? YES. Herbert W Armstrong? Of course.

Hitler and Mao were both evilly powerful murderous men who lusted to dominate the world, but that is not what made then antiChrists. Denial of the Son and by extension the Father is what makes one an antiChrist.

 

[David505]

Well the difference between Trinity and antiChrist is that antiChrist is defined by name in the scriptures.

My answer then is to submit to the revelation in this case John's definition. Which does not grant any special place or powers ,especially world domination to antiChrist.

Was Hitler an antiChrist ? Certainly

Was Mao an antiChrist ? Certainly

Joey Smith ? Absolutely. Jim Jones? YES. Herbert W Armstrong? Of course.

Hitler and Mao were both evilly powerful murderous men who lusted to dominate the world, but that is not what made then antiChrists. Denial of the Son and by extension the Father is what makes one an antiChrist.

Thanks Hitch,

Agreed, Antichrist is anyone “that denieth the Father and the Son (1 John 2:22).†I would add Vladimir Lenin to your list and rank Lenin preeminent among such historical figures.

The question is whether John’s advice, “as ye have heard that antichrist shall come (1 John 2:18),†anticipates an archetype. Those among us who expect an archetype treat John’s comment as an implication. Those who do not expect an archetype dismiss the expectation as inference. We’ll have to wait and see. In the meantime, here’s a reference:

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

Otherwise, there may be a quandary regarding Lucifer’s supposed cohabitation of a human form (the archetypal Antichrist). As John observes:

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Revelation 16:13

John appears to distinguish three distinct malefactors: the ‘dragon’ (Lucifer), the ‘beast’ (Antichrist), and the ‘false prophet’ (whomever). If John portrays the scoundrels separately, while Lucifer supposedly indwells Antichrist, would not Lucifer have to be in two places at once?