V
von
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Any one here not believe in double marriage?
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von said:No, I don't mean bigamy. I mean divorce and remarriage.
Simonline said:Amity, porneia refers to any and all illicit (non-specific) sexual relations and is the word from which the word pornography is derived. The word specifically used for adultery is moichea and refers specifically and exclusively to adultery.
The reason why the Messiah taught that divorce was not permitted except for porneia [NIV - 'marital unfaithfulness' - which is not really helpful and serves only to cloud the issue] was because it referred to betrothed couples who were not consumately married yet (in which case the word moichea would have been used) and therefore the word 'adultery' was not appropriate since this can only be used of couples who are consumately married, having gone under the canopy, and not just betrothed or 'engaged' to be married.
Thus what the Messiah was actually teaching was that, at least for believers, divorce was really only an option during the betrothal period and not once consumately married.
This is borne out later on by Paul's command to married couples (which is really God's command to married couples through his apostle Paul (1Tim.3:16)) who were having marital problems. In the event that their domestic situation got so bad that they could no longer stand to live together then they were to separate and live as single people or get back together and, with the help of the rest of the believing community, make their marriage work, but they were not to get divorced (1Cor.7:10-11 cf. Mal.2:16).
Simonline.
what the Messiah was actually teaching was that, at least for believers...
Amity said:Simonline said:Amity, porneia refers to any and all illicit (non-specific) sexual relations and is the word from which the word pornography is derived. The word specifically used for adultery is moichea and refers specifically and exclusively to adultery.
The reason why the Messiah taught that divorce was not permitted except for porneia [NIV - 'marital unfaithfulness' - which is not really helpful and serves only to cloud the issue] was because it referred to betrothed couples who were not consumately married yet (in which case the word moichea would have been used) and therefore the word 'adultery' was not appropriate since this can only be used of couples who are consumately married, having gone under the canopy, and not just betrothed or 'engaged' to be married.
Thus what the Messiah was actually teaching was that, at least for believers, divorce was really only an option during the betrothal period and not once consumately married.
This is borne out later on by Paul's command to married couples (which is really God's command to married couples through his apostle Paul (1Tim.3:16)) who were having marital problems. In the event that their domestic situation got so bad that they could no longer stand to live together then they were to separate and live as single people or get back together and, with the help of the rest of the believing community, make their marriage work, but they were not to get divorced (1Cor.7:10-11 cf. Mal.2:16).
Simonline.
I guess if that is the case, and Jesus didn't mean what he said (or only meant Matthew 19:9 for betrothed virgins as you assert) then anyone who married without being a virgin (which is unfortunately common these days) needs to repent and get out of their current relationship, else they are damned to hell. (since unrepentant adulterers do not go to heaven) Revelation 21:8, Hebrews 13:4. Is this what you are claiming? Just trying to understand your point.
Repent, yes. Leave their current relationship, not necessarily, especially if their former spouse has also remarried and both parties now have new offspring to different partners. God recognizes that sometimes we still have to live with the consequences of our actions even if and when we have been forgiven for them.
what the Messiah was actually teaching was that, at least for believers...
Unbelievers are going to be judged too. Sin is sin whether unbelievers want to acknowledge it or not. Just wanted to clarify that point. They have to obey the gospel and repent of their sins just like those who believe in Jesus do, if they want to make it to Heaven.
This is not in dispute but in this life God has conceded divorce to unbelievers because of the hardness of their hearts. However, since believers are not supposed to have hard hearts God has made no such concession to them.
Just so you'll know, I am not attempting to look for loopholes in scripture because of my own situation. I also don't think Paul's teachings contradict Jesus' teachings. I do NOT think that one can remarry simply because an unbeliever departs. 1 Cor. 7 in that instance is merely stating that one is no longer under bondage to cook, clean, have sex with, etc., a spouse that leaves. As a Christian woman I am obligated to continue to attempt to win my unbelieving husband in accordance with 1 Peter 3 , as I did and continued even after he left the house. But at the point that he refused my requests to reconcile, and moved another woman into his house, I then had the right to put him away. Just as Jesus said in Matthew 19:9. If you want to add requirements to the word of God and bind something on yourself and others that are not obvious from the immediate text and context of the scriptures, well, I can't stop you. But I will say that I am very careful not to do so. I have seen others with your viewpoint before, and as for your point of remarriage under no circumstances, I respectfully disagree. That's not what the word says. Jesus didn't lie.
I am completely content with remaining alone and celibate the rest of my life if remarrying would contradict scripture. I have studied this matter extensively and have sought counsel of several brothers in Christ whom I trust in their preaching, knowledge and scholarship in their study of the word. Most importantly though, I have studied on my own to be fully pursuaded in my own mind. To doubt is to be damned. (Romans 14:23) I take very seriously living my life in a way that is pleasing and glorifying to God...I don't wish to bring any reproach on Him or Christ's church, and I wanna make it to Heaven, too. :angel:
Wow. Though we have different views I am not convinced that you are wrong in the stance that you have taken. I do, however, think you're being a bit hard on yourself considering your former partner was and is an unbeliever. In your circumstances I believe that you are now free to marry a believer since your unbelieving partner has voluntarily left you. As far as you were able you kept your side of the marriage covenant according to your Christian faith. If your unbelieving partner has left voluntarily then he is no longer sanctified by your faith and you can regard him as 'dead'. You are no longer bound by that marriage covenant. You would not be guilty of any sin. You are free to marry again providing your next partner is a fellow believer.
If, however, you choose to hold out a candle for your former partner then that is a pure act of faith on your part [rather than obedience to a specific command] and one for which I have the greatest respect and admiration.
This is a similar situation to a believer whose spouse has gone off to war and the believer later receives a report that their spouse is 'missing, presumed dead'. After holding out for many years the surviving partner finally concedes that their loved one is dead and eventually marries again. After many years of happy marriage to their new spouse the original spouse returns. What should the remarried partner then do? To whom are they morally and legally married?
I personally believe that the relevant principle here is the same principle as that for a believer with an unbelieving partner who leaves and then after many years returns to their original partner as a believer only to discover that their original partner has married another believer. In such circumstances I don't believe that God would hold those people to their original marriage covenants (especailly if there are siblings involved in the subsequent marriage covenants).
Every blessing in Christ,
Simonline.
Thank you for this dialog,
In Christian love,
If your unbelieving partner has left voluntarily then he is no longer sanctified by your faith and you can regard him as 'dead'.
Simonline said:You really do love him don't you?
Stick around, could be interesting?
von said:Amity, Please forgive me if you think that I don't want to talk to you about this subject. It's not that at all. I just have a question that can only be answered by someone who believes it the way that I do.
I don't like to get on this subject with people who believe differently because I don't stand in judgment of anyones situation. That is one thing I don't like about writing on hear. If you were actually talking to me you would not have been offended. You would have known I didn't mean it that way.
I am in that situation and just had a question for someone who understood where I was coming from. Please don't take offense. I'll talk to you.
Sounds to me like you still love your husband? You know that with God all things are possible? Von
SputnikBoy said:It was always my understanding that, while one may divorce because of adultery by one or both partners, they can't marry again, scripturally speaking. Divorce, yes - marry someone else, no. Y'see, the way I understand, two former 'marrieds' who later marry someone else would then be guilty of committing adultery. Is that the way it works or do I have it backwards?