Double Marriage

[von]

Lovely- You are not being offensive to me. I truly understand where you are coming from as I studied it a long time from all points of view, so that I could remain in my situation. What Northstar has said is correct. Just because the legal system sees you as married to another, God does not. He only allows you one. I don't know if I posted it here before or not so if I did I am sorry, but it is no different than if I steal your nice shiny corvette out of your driveway. After all, my old Ford doesn't work very well anymore. It is always in the garage, it is costing me too much money. I take your car, It's prettier than mine, runs much better, and has alot of speed and excitement. The Lord deals with my heart, I confess my sins. Now, do you want your car back or should I just keep it? The Lord forgives me, so now it's mine? Do you understand a little better now where I'm coming from?
Think about this. The Lord saves us, makes us a new creation, old things are passed away. So that means he doesn't acknowledge my first marriage? The Bible says All marriage is honorable. Not to mention if He doesn't see my remarriage anymore, then He doesn't see peoples first marriage either, so then everyone needs to take their vows again when they get saved. Oh, believe me there are consequences to pay anyhow. Just because you do the right thing and leave the adulterous marriage your life does not suddenly become a bed of roses.


Northstar- I am glad to hear from others that believe the same as I do. I am just curious as to what kind of church that you find that supports your beliefs.

 

[northstar]

Northstar- I am glad to hear from others that believe the same as I do. I am just curious as to what kind of church that you find that supports your beliefs.

Hi Von

To be honest, there aren't really any churches that support these beliefs as churches are too 'user friendly' these days. Generally you find that there are individuals within churches that believe this, individuals within churches whose spouses left them and they refuse to remarry as they believe it's wrong. Having said that, there may be one or two churches but I have no idea where you would find them...

My husband's old pastor believes this and it is something which he taught at the church he was pastor of. However he's now living in a different country though still teaching his convictions from there.

The best support and encouragement at the moment is finding like minded people on the internet and the one or two that you may meet in every day life.

We are in the minority but that doesn't mean we're wrong. We're striving to go in at the narrow gate because the Bible says there are few that find it.

I have some contacts and some links that may be of interest to you. Also there's a conference on this issue taking place in the US next January, and all the speakers are those who believe as we do. If you're interested in any of this, PM me and I'll give you details...

 

[1956Ford]

Von,

I do not believe in remarriage, but I do think that once you are remarried that you should NOT leave that covenant because God has revealed that truth to you. To repent of your sin, and never do it again, means simply that. You are repeating the offence, and commiting more sin if you break covenant of a second marriage before God. To divorce again, is repeating the offence. The consequences of your sin will remain, but you must live with them. You should remain and allow God to restore you, and forgive you, even if you are bound to the situation. You must live with the physcial consequences of sin, but God's mercy will cover your eternal consequences.

It seemed like you wanted an honest opinion, Von. I hope I have not been offensive by being direct. The Lord bless you.

Lovely,

I believe that the adulterous marriage should be repented of. I repented of an adulterous remarriage.
My testimony is at http://www.poovy.8m.com

Cheryl

 

[1956Ford]

Von,

I do not believe in remarriage, but I do think that once you are remarried that you should NOT leave that covenant because God has revealed that truth to you. To repent of your sin, and never do it again, means simply that. You are repeating the offence, and commiting more sin if you break covenant of a second marriage before God. To divorce again, is repeating the offence. The consequences of your sin will remain, but you must live with them. You should remain and allow God to restore you, and forgive you, even if you are bound to the situation. You must live with the physcial consequences of sin, but God's mercy will cover your eternal consequences.

It seemed like you wanted an honest opinion, Von. I hope I have not been offensive by being direct. The Lord bless you.

Lovely,

I believe that the adulterous marriage should be repented of. I repented of an adulterous remarriage.
My testimony is at http://www.poovy.8m.com

Cheryl

 

[lovely]

I appreciate your position on this subject Cheryl, Northstar, and Von. I truly understand it, and praise God for the sincere desire to be given over to God's will in the matter. As I said, I do not believe in remarriage either. Those who have not commited this sin, should prevent it by not remarrying. And, so you know that I am not trying to justify my own sin, I am not guilty of remarrying.

However, someone who is already remarried does not have the right to break their oath, their covenant...yes, before God, a second time. The consequences of that sin remain, but to break another covenant...before God....is the same sin, repeated. God sees all, and recognizes all promises, and oaths, given before Him.

A question: "If you leave the second person, and the first person dies, but the second lives...are you free to remarry?"

another: "Did God not call the men...that the woman at the well had been with...her husbands?"

another: "Why didn't David put away Bathsheba? Should he have?"

To break up another marriage, and to tear apart the lives of children involved in that marriage, to "fix" the consequences of sin, is wrong. By ripping apart "one flesh" again, is repeating the sin. God's mercy is sufficient in such a case. The consequences of what has been done remain, but one must trust that God will restore, and cover, sin with the blood of Christ for those who are His children. We must rightly divide God's Word in such a unique situation, and remember the spirit of the law, not the letter. The law, without mercy, forgiveness, and love...is obeyed out of self-righteousness, and not out of a heart obedience to God.

Keep in mind, I am not saying to NOT obey God's commands, because if you read my posts on this site, you will know that I advocate strict obedience to God's Word..."If you love me, keep my commandments"...but out of love...love, that is not afraid to be truly humble. To leave a second marriage, break that oath, seems more like a self-righteous act, rather than an act of true humble repentance. Believers can not undo wrong, with more wrong. It is God's place to restore people, and make all things work together for good to those who are called according to His purpose. If a person makes a covenant before God...till death do you part...it remains. To try and correct the first sin, by commiting another, is MORE sin. Essentialy it is a lack of faith in God's mercy and forgiveness. More sin will NOT right the previous offence. To tear down the idols of sin in ones life requires a repentant heart, and a will to not continue in sin from that point forward, even if one must live out life in a situation that was self-inflicted. A cross to bear. God's grace is sufficient for this particular thorn. To do things in our own power, does not equal repentance, but is to not trust God. For one to break a second oath, by trying to appease conscience, or to appear less sinful, is taking a stand that clearly involves more sin...and is VERY carnal. The whole point of repentance is to stop sinning.

I praise God for brothers and sisters that are given over to God's will for their lives...it is such a blessing. However, I would say we must be careful to not make the letter of the law an idol.

The Lord bless you all,
Lovely

 

[von]

Lovely- I understand your feelings. It was nor is it an easy thing to do. However, I can not find anyplace in the Bible where yoe can break that one flesh.
Remember Herod? He was not a Christian and John the Baptist told him he was in sin because he had taken his brothers wife and made her his own and because of that John was cast into prison and had his head taken off.
Yes, the Lord did tell the Samaritan woman that she had 5 husbands. By the law they were her husbands, but if it was okay why did Jesus even point that out to her? He also did not tell her that she could continue in her sins. What He did was point out her sin. She then went and said come meet a man who told me everything that I ever did. He made her aware of her sins.
Malachi says that the Lord is a witness between "you and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously; YET is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant." No man can break that first covenant. How can you make a vow to God til death do us part with another mate when you already made that covenant once. Did that covenant get broken by a worldly piece of paper? That peice of paper means nothing to God.
In answer to your question. If the first spouse dies and the second one lives can you remarry? Yes, you can as long as the second spouse doesn't have a living spouse. (I'm assuming that you mean remarry the second spouse) But, yes is your first spouse dies you can remarry un unmarried person because the paper to the second marriage was not valid.

Norhtstar- I have not been able to find a church that supports this belief but it makes all of the difference in the world to know that you are not alone. I have found pastors who do but not the churchpeople themselves. I really enjoyed 1956Ford's testimony.
No it's not the popular thing but Jesus wasn't popular. He didn't go about trying to make our lives cozy. He said take up your cross. He didn't create our sins we did. We made choices in our lives and I believe that if you don't have to turn away form this sin then you don't need to turn away from any sins, making salvation unnecessary.
The Bible teaches that our ways are not His ways and our thoughts are not His. So justifying things that make us comfortable are not going to help us in the end.

 

[lovely]

Von,

Thank you for your response. I respect, your position even in my disagreement. The Lord bless you.

lovely

 

[lastblast]

Hi Lovely,

I have to agree with Von and Cheryl. Biblically speaking there is no reason to honor a "vow" made if the Lord calls that vow sin ("adultery"). The Lord would never hold us to a vow that was sinful. An example would be to promise to help another in some crime(ie; robbery, rape, arson, etc). If one had second thoughts and repented of that sinful vow, would that person be expected by God to fulfill it? I don't believe so. Another question one needs to ask: Is God obligated to join as "one flesh" a couple whom He says is in sin(adultery), but won't turn from their sin? If so, then how is it that God does not join homosexual people in marriage?

As Von said, those who hold that the second vow is binding, what about the first vow (the non sinful one) in which the couple is joined as "one flesh" by God? In Mal. 2 we can see that God WILL NOT accept the offerings of the man who is married unlawfully to another woman.......God then says that the first wife IS the wife of the covenant. If God accepts "tears of repentance" and not a forsaking of the sin (which is the position popularly taught in churches today), why doesn't He accept this man's offerings?

I understand what you are saying about the "letter of the law". However, we do not have the power to say what God has called sin, is not really sin. If He calls remarriage adultery, and there's no other scripture which shows it to change to a lawful relationship, then how is it that we teach people they should stay in that sin? Are we not called to 'depart from sin' and to encourage others to do the same? Blessings in Him, Cindy

 

[1956Ford]

However, someone who is already remarried does not have the right to break their oath, their covenant...yes, before God, a second time. The consequences of that sin remain, but to break another covenant...before God....is the same sin, repeated. God sees all, and recognizes all promises, and oaths, given before Him.

So, two homosexuals who make an oath/covenant are bound to stay in their homosexual relationship because of the oath/covenant, since God recognizes all promises, and oaths, given before him.

It's not the same sin repeated. The first marriage is covenant broken by only by death. The second Jesus called adultery. How does one repent of adultery? They stop doing it.

I repented of an adulterous remarriage.
My testimony is at http://www.poovy.8m.com

Cheryl

 

[lastblast]

Here is an interesting read:

http://newark.rutgers.edu/~lcrew/assay49.html

It shows the mindset in some of the "church" regarding the eventual acceptance of homosexual unions/marriages within the professing Church. As biblical marriage has gone----adulterous remarriages being now accepted when once it was not, so will be the case with homosexual unions/marriages. I think this person, although unGodly in mindset, is absolutely right concerning the state of the Church and where we are heading. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

 

[northstar]

To break up another marriage, and to tear apart the lives of children involved in that marriage, to "fix" the consequences of sin, is wrong. By ripping apart "one flesh" again, is repeating the sin. God's mercy is sufficient in such a case. The consequences of what has been done remain, but one must trust that God will restore, and cover, sin with the blood of Christ for those who are His children. We must rightly divide God's Word in such a unique situation, and remember the spirit of the law, not the letter. The law, without mercy, forgiveness, and love...is obeyed out of self-righteousness, and not out of a heart obedience to God.

Thank you for your kind words...

Just a question...why does God call remarriage adultery?
IMO, because He doesn't see the second marriage as a marriage, but as adultery against the original spouse. Which means that it's equivalent of an ongoing affair...because God says that the orignal marriage is still valid.

A government does not have the right, or maybe I should say, they CANNOT separate a marriage because they did not join it in the first place. GOD says that the original couple are married for life, and the government might think they can go against God and divorce the couple, but God won't see it that way. Divorce certificate or not, God says the couple are still one flesh.

A person in their 'remarriage' may have made a new set of vows, but they're not actually at liberty to do so because their first set of vows are still in operation until their original spouse dies.

IMO, divorcing from a remarriage would be only because of the legalities of the government as God doesn't see them as married anyway. God says it's adultery, and adulterers will not enter the kingdom of heaven. If God saw the second marriage as a bonafide, proper, real marriage, then He wouldn't call it adultery. But He does call it that, and we shouldn't carry on in an adulterous lifestyle.

My point is this...that if God doesn't recognise the remarriage as a marriage, then divorcing from it would not be sinning, but going through the legal formalities in order to end the wrong relationship.

Sorry, I think I've rambled a bit...trying to get all my thoughts out in some sort of order :o

God bless...

 

[von]

Lovely- I have enjoyed discussing this with you. You are one of the few who not actually did not use hostility. Many do. Just so you know, I don't stand in judgment of divorced and remarried people. The Bible says what it says and I believe it, but just because I have done it doesn't make me holier than the next person. I have many other things in my life that need put in order. I'm sure the others on here would agree.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Again - I must point out that God views the 'sexual act' as marriage - not a 'vow'. Therefore, I am currently married to 7 men? Because I slept with men before my current partner? No! Because I repented of those when I married my husband. I believe the blood of Jesus washed away my sins. I will not go back to the first man I had sex with...God divorced me from that man.

You know that God can divorce people? We can't...but God can. God divorced Israel remember.

 

[lastblast]

Again - I must point out that God views the 'sexual act' as marriage - not a 'vow'. Therefore, I am currently married to 7 men? Because I slept with men before my current partner? No! Because I repented of those when I married my husband. I believe the blood of Jesus washed away my sins. I will not go back to the first man I had sex with...God divorced me from that man.

You know that God can divorce people? We can't...but God can. God divorced Israel remember.

No, I don't believe you are correct. Even after God divorced Israel, he still called her His "wife".........telling her to return to Him. If God views the sexual act as marriage, then there would never be any sin in a sexual act-------each act would "join" you to the new person and dissolve the previous bond. Rom. 7:2-3 shows that although a woman commits adultery, she is still bound to her 1st husband, until he dies, so we know that adultery does not dissolve the previous lawful bond. There is something much more to marriage than sex..........some marriages cannot consummate their marriage----does that make them not married?

Also, I would pose this question: at what point was Adam and Eve considered "one flesh"------after Eve was created from Adam or after their first sexual encounter? Also, when God told Hosea to take Gomer as wife, was He in fact telling Hosea to sin by taking another man's wife (if sex marries a person)? Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

Ps. To Von, you have a wonderful spirit. Although I feel very strongly on the divorce/remarriage issue, like you, I hope I do not come across as condemning. My desire is just to dialogue on the passages in question...........

 

[lovely]

Von,

I never thought that you were ever judgemental, sis...at all. I just disagree.


Northstar, lastblast, Ford,

The Scripture also tells us to not be unequally yoked, but He tells us to stay with an unbelieving spouse unless they desire to leave. Why not leave that unbelieving spouse in order to obey the Word that says do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers? Is there a difference in this, and in remarriage? If so, can you please explain to me what you have found in Scripture? Thanks ladies, I am truly interested.

Malachi 2, I am familiar with. I appreciate everyone's input, and I will continue to pray, and seek God's Word on this matter. I desire His truth only. At this point, I still find myself in disagreement. The Lord bless all you ladies.

Lovely

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Again - I must point out that God views the 'sexual act' as marriage - not a 'vow'. Therefore, I am currently married to 7 men? Because I slept with men before my current partner? No! Because I repented of those when I married my husband. I believe the blood of Jesus washed away my sins. I will not go back to the first man I had sex with...God divorced me from that man.

You know that God can divorce people? We can't...but God can. God divorced Israel remember.

No, I don't believe you are correct. Even after God divorced Israel, he still called her His "wife".........telling her to return to Him. If God views the sexual act as marriage, then there would never be any sin in a sexual act-------each act would "join" you to the new person and dissolve the previous bond.

But that's the problem. The woman at the well had 7 husbands becasue she slept with 7 men. Just because she slept with another man didn't dissolve the previous 'marriage'.

Rom. 7:2-3 shows that although a woman commits adultery, she is still bound to her 1st husband, until he dies, so we know that adultery does not dissolve the previous lawful bond. There is something much more to marriage than sex..........some marriages cannot consummate their marriage----does that make them not married?

I dont' know, I can only go by what the bible says.

Also, I would pose this question: at what point was Adam and Eve considered "one flesh"------after Eve was created from Adam or after their first sexual encounter? Also, when God told Hosea to take Gomer as wife, was He in fact telling Hosea to sin by taking another man's wife (if sex marries a person)? Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

But that's the thing though - the sexual act in itself isn't a sin. Fornication and adultery is.

 

[northstar]

Lovely- I have enjoyed discussing this with you. You are one of the few who not actually did not use hostility. Many do. Just so you know, I don't stand in judgment of divorced and remarried people. The Bible says what it says and I believe it, but just because I have done it doesn't make me holier than the next person. I have many other things in my life that need put in order. I'm sure the others on here would agree.

Completely agree. It's not about judging, but encouraging each other to study the Word for themselves and to obey it.
I constantly ask God that if there's anything in my life that doesn't please Him, that He'll reveal it to me and help me to get it out of my life. God is serious about every area of all of our lives, not just this one issue...

though I would say that IMO God is so concerned about this issue because it's about His image and His name. Marriage is a picture of His relationship with Israel, and Christ's with the church. I think that's why God is so concerned for marriages...IMO

God bless

 

[northstar]

Again - I must point out that God views the 'sexual act' as marriage - not a 'vow'. Therefore, I am currently married to 7 men? Because I slept with men before my current partner? No! Because I repented of those when I married my husband. I believe the blood of Jesus washed away my sins. I will not go back to the first man I had sex with...God divorced me from that man.

You know that God can divorce people? We can't...but God can. God divorced Israel remember.

In Jeremiah it says that He wrote them a bill of divorcement for their adulteries.
Then a few verses later God asks them to come back. He asks them to repent and He'll take them back for He is married to them, is a husband to them.

So he may have sent them away, but He isn't 'remarried', but rather He's waiting for them to come back!

Out of curiosity (sp?) where in the Bible does it say that sex = marriage? This is a serious question...I'm not being sarcastic...

 

[northstar]

But that's the thing though - the sexual act in itself isn't a sin. Fornication and adultery is.

But isn't fornication sex before marriage? So if sex=marriage, how can there be such a thing as fornication?

Also, to the woman at the well, Jesus said "you've had five husbands, and the man you're now living with is not your husband". If sex=marriage, that would mean she was living with the guy but not sleeping with him.

Blessings...

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Again - I must point out that God views the 'sexual act' as marriage - not a 'vow'. Therefore, I am currently married to 7 men? Because I slept with men before my current partner? No! Because I repented of those when I married my husband. I believe the blood of Jesus washed away my sins. I will not go back to the first man I had sex with...God divorced me from that man.

You know that God can divorce people? We can't...but God can. God divorced Israel remember.

In Jeremiah it says that He wrote them a bill of divorcement for their adulteries.
Then a few verses later God asks them to come back. He asks them to repent and He'll take them back for He is married to them, is a husband to them.

So he may have sent them away, but He isn't 'remarried', but rather He's waiting for them to come back!

Out of curiosity (sp?) where in the Bible does it say that sex = marriage? This is a serious question...I'm not being sarcastic...

Hey no that's cool...it doesn't actually say 'sex' actually sex in itself isnt' mentioned in the bible ;) But Adam and Eve knew one another as did cain and able - knew one another and became one flesh. One can only assume that they had sex, no wedding ceremony is mentioned or paper signing etc...so one can only assume that they had sex and that is how they became one flesh.

That's why I think that God takes sex seriously because if you're not certain that you want to spend the rest of your life with someone and you have sex with them - then you've just gone and married them LOL So that's fornication. Then you go and have sex with someone else and married them too. Like the woman at the well, was a bit 'easy' ;) had seven husbands. At any rate, I know that I've been divorced from my previous relationships (thankfully) Christ's blood was pretty good for that while I was being 'stupid' and sleeping around when I was younger. I honestly don't know what I was thinking - but oh well, by gones