Drinking alcohol (not drunkenness)

[Dennyh]

I have a different question for you all. I am placing it here in the general discussion because I want the input of non-believers as well. From the searching I have done on here I have come to the conclusion that most of you feel that whether or not alcohol is is wrong is a personal decision. Some people are okay with it and some are not. However most people do agree that the alcohol is not the problem so much as drunkenness. So on to my question:

Does your opinion of a person drinking alcohol change if the person has a position in the church? An Elder? Pastor?

Does your opinion change if the person chooses to drink in their private home as opposed to in public (such as a restaurant)?

Again, I would like the input of non-church-going people on this as well. What do you think of a church-going person you see in public drinking alcohol? Is your opinion different if the person has a position in the church instead of just being a church member?

Remember this is not referring to someone getting drunk. This is merely the sight of a person drinking alcohol.

Thank you for your input!

 

[Lewis]

I was a church going alcoholic. But if you are Christian and you don't have a problem with alcohol, help yourself. Remember the Bible does not condem alcohol it encourages it in certain Scriptures. But the bible is against the abuse of alcohol. I should not drink because I can't stop when I do. But not everyone has that problem, I would love to enjoy a nice ice cold Henieken right now, but I can't, because I will keep going.

 

[Feldew]

Denny, when I see a fellow church-goer drinking alcohol, I feel nervousness and anxiety well up in me and feel let down, and that feeling is worse if it's a church leader drinking. It's only a subtle feeling, like the people meant to lead or join me in my walk with the Lord were delving into some evil world, making me fear that I cannot trust them. However, I believe this is due to my personal experience with alcoholics, and I don't think I'd feel so uneasy if I didn't have a negative connection with alcohol so deeply ingrained in me.

 

[WIP]

I have no problem with people consuming alcohol. Like anything else, we can abuse it. The Catholic church down the road has a fund-raiser every fall where they put together a carnival of sorts including a sausage feed and even a beer gardens. Those Germans ya know.

One can abuse certain types of food or even food in general and damage the body. What about seeing someone eat? Does your opinion of someone change when you see them eat in moderation as compared to not eating at all?

One can die by drinking too much water. Ask yourself the same questions.

Sorry, this sounds argumentative but that is not my intention. I'm trying to bring up a parallel. Alcohol is not a problem when consumed in moderation and control. It's when we lose control that it becomes a problem. For some, like Lewis, it is easier to lose control than for others and fortunately for him he learned this about himself and was able to regain control. Kudos to you Lewis! Three of my best friends are recovering alcoholics and I watched their transformation take place. It was awe inspiring.

 

[tim-from-pa]

My answers are in red:

Does your opinion of a person drinking alcohol change if the person has a position in the church? An Elder? Pastor?

Not at all. Sometimes if our Pastor drops by a family party, he'll have a drink. But he does so in moderation.

Does your opinion change if the person chooses to drink in their private home as opposed to in public (such as a restaurant)?

Again, not at all. We had gatherings with people from church at home here and in a restaurant with a bar. I beered the guys and ladies here at home and joined the same at the bar when out.

Again, I would like the input of non-church-going people on this as well. What do you think of a church-going person you see in public drinking alcohol? Is your opinion different if the person has a position in the church instead of just being a church member?

I don't think anything. I believe they are enjoying life and good God-given food. It's not up to me to judge. Maybe they fast and pray several times a week in between for all I know.

For the record, I take what is acceptable to eat from the OT in the bible. Many Christians claim that Paul even allowed eating of non-Kosher foods --- that's fine and dandy and I can go along with the extra freedom. But I dare anyone to show me in the NT where Kosher foods, such as wine, was now deem non-Kosher. There is none. Therefore, as you pointed out, most of the issue is with what goes on in the imagination. If the pastor is drinking (not that drinking is a sin), is he drunk? To let that go thru one's mind is judgmental IMO except he staggers out of the restaurant and dings your car while pulling out, then one can look with a little judgment. Otherwise, one can keep to themselves.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Does your opinion of a person drinking alcohol change if the person has a position in the church? An Elder? Pastor?

Does your opinion change if the person chooses to drink in their private home as opposed to in public (such as a restaurant)?

Again, I would like the input of non-church-going people on this as well. What do you think of a church-going person you see in public drinking alcohol? Is your opinion different if the person has a position in the church instead of just being a church member?

Remember this is not referring to someone getting drunk. This is merely the sight of a person drinking alcohol.

Thank you for your input!

I think we have been conditioned both subconsciously and overtly to be bothered by the sight of a "public person of God" (aka a figurehead) participating in anything that is not somehow religious whether it is using the bathroom or something more anerving like imbibing a bit.

I think we would all do well to stop making public figures into stars whether they be religious so called leaders of other types of figures (politicians, actor, etc.). This subtle form of idolotry places an unfair burden on them and it is a factor in the "god complex" that many of these individuals seem to have.
These folks are people just like we are. What is a sin for them is a sin for us as well. I believe we would do well to hold ourselves to the same high standard we expect of religious leaders and live accordingly.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

For the record, I take what is acceptable to eat from the OT in the bible. Many Christians claim that Paul even allowed eating of non-Kosher foods --- that's fine and dandy and I can go along with the extra freedom. But I dare anyone to show me in the NT where Kosher foods, such as wine, was now deem non-Kosher. There is none. Therefore, as you pointed out, most of the issue is with what goes on in the imagination. If the pastor is drinking (not that drinking is a sin), is he drunk? To let that go thru one's mind is judgmental IMO except he staggers out of the restaurant and dings your car while pulling out, then one can look with a little judgment. Otherwise, one can keep to themselves.

Good for you Tim. I have been loosely attempting to do the same over the last couple years as well. I have eliminated pork, catfish, and all meats that come from animals that do not eat the cud and have a cloven holve. But being from SE Texas with roots in SW Louisiana I am struggling with eliminating shrimp, crab, and other crustations from my diet.

 

[Dennyh]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I do appreciate your input. I generally agree with you all but the issue I am having is with I Thessalonians 5: 22 which states to abstain from the appearance of evil. Unfortunately our society today usually thinks that a Christian should completely abstain from alcohol, especially in public. So does that mean we should based on that verse?

How does you know if you are in a restaurant and a "weaker brother" comes in and sees you drinking? Doesn't Paul say we should abstain so as not to cause a weaker brother to fall? (I Cor. 8)

I am not trying to be argumentative or anything these are genuine questions.

Thanks again.

 

[Lewis]

I'm drunk right now.

 

[reba]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I do appreciate your input. I generally agree with you all but the issue I am having is with I Thessalonians 5: 22 which states to abstain from the appearance of evil. Unfortunately our society today usually thinks that a Christian should completely abstain from alcohol, especially in public. So does that mean we should based on that verse?

How does you know if you are in a restaurant and a "weaker brother" comes in and sees you drinking? Doesn't Paul say we should abstain so as not to cause a weaker brother to fall? (I Cor. 8)

I am not trying to be argumentative or anything these are genuine questions.

Thanks again.

Common sense has a place in our Christian walk. Yes we should not cause a weaker brother to fall. I dont think a Christian should eat at Hooters. But that brings to mind a story Pat Boone talked about .... Pat caught 'it' for taking his show to the Playboy Club.. Pat was hassled by Christians. Pats reply ... was something like ... PB called and asked if pat would play? Pat told em i will not change my program. To Pat he was taking the witness to the sinner.

We have Scriptures to guide us and the brain God gave us. We most often know when we have stepped over the line. When we keep in tune with Holy Spirit we know....

 

[WIP]

Common sense has a place in our Christian walk. Yes we should not cause a weaker brother to fall. I dont think a Christian should eat at Hooters. But that brings to mind a story Pat Boone talked about .... Pat caught 'it' for taking his show to the Playboy Club.. Pat was hassled by Christians. Pats reply ... was something like ... PB called and asked if pat would play? Pat told em i will not change my program. To Pat he was taking the witness to the sinner.

We have Scriptures to guide us and the brain God gave us. We most often know when we have stepped over the line. When we keep in tune with Holy Spirit we know....

I think you make a good point - Motive. Even Jesus sat with "sinners" and tax collectors but not because He wanted to be like them or do what they do but because he wanted to teach and save them.

 

[Lewis]

 

[Pard]

Uh, I don't see a problem with church figureheads drinking in public or private. The mentality that makes people cringe when a pastor/elder/deacon is seen drinking is akin to the mentality a child has when they first see their teacher outside of the classroom (say in the mall or at a grocery store). Now that isn't an insult, it's just something we have all (most likely) experienced first or second hand. Often we categorize people with a single place/event/duty and we forget that they have a life outside of that place/event/duty. Pastors have lives outside of their 10-12 sermon, just like you and I do..

Now do they have a personal obligation to extreme moderation? I'd say yes, just as any person of influence, they should be conscious of their surroundings and of their level of consumption. In their house maybe two or three beers is fine, but in public one beer is probably enough. Same goes for anyone of influence in the public eye, like politicians and police officers.

The same can be applied to any Christian. I don't have a problem when people drink, I don't (not 21) nor do I ever plan on drinking myself, but I don't have any ill feelings towards those who do (For me it is a twofold reason. 1, I don't enjoy the feeling that alcohol has. 2, I don't want to allow alcohol a chance at ruining me and since I plan on being in a high stress job, police force, not allowing it to ever enter my life is simply the easiest and best procaution). My parents drink when I am around and I don't see a problem with it. Now I also realize that it can be a stumbling block for people, but at the same time I think people need to just get over those blocks in their way! I don't think a brother should have to throw his beer away just because a weaker brother has entered the room, especially in a public place like a bar or a restaurant.

 

[Sparkey]

Come this Father's Day I will privately celebrate 18 years of sobriety. During those 18 years I have (while working) gone with non-Christian co-workers and have shared meals with them. Sometimes we'd eat at the bar of the hotel we stayed in. It was an opportunity to give part of my testimony but the almost universal reaction to my statement that I am an alcoholic was, "Does my drinking bother you?" and not one of condemnation.

Today, as then, there is no longer any desire in me to drink even though I too remember the satisfying taste of a cold beer on a hot summer's day. Should I refrain from the appearance of evil to the extent that I don't even so much as go into a restaurant that serves booze? Well, if that was a place that put me into a situation where I was likely to sin and "fall off the wagon" then yes, it would be foolish for me. But as it is I'm just thankful that my life is no longer out of control. It was the drunkenness of my Christian walk (and all the sin that accompanied the old life) that expressed my disobedience to Jesus, not the drink itself.

Ecclesiastes 3:14 (NIV) I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. Although I believe that I've been healed from that sickness there is nothing in me now that would want to test it by drinking (just to prove I'm okay). Thankfulness in me today arises from the redemptive power of our Lord who delivered from sin.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I do appreciate your input. I generally agree with you all but the issue I am having is with I Thessalonians 5: 22 which states to abstain from the appearance of evil. Unfortunately our society today usually thinks that a Christian should completely abstain from alcohol, especially in public. So does that mean we should based on that verse?

How does you know if you are in a restaurant and a "weaker brother" comes in and sees you drinking? Doesn't Paul say we should abstain so as not to cause a weaker brother to fall? (I Cor. 8)

I am not trying to be argumentative or anything these are genuine questions.

Thanks again.

Indeed abstainance from evil and the appearance of being guilty of evils is a part of the christian calling. But let's be clear, drinking is not an evil according to the scriptures. For that matter gambling, swear words, and other things many frown upon are not either. We need to have a clear understanding of what our FATHER considers as evil and not be quick to add things to HIS list.

 

[Bonairos]

Uh, I don't see a problem with church figureheads drinking in public or private.

Unless of course one preaches different from what they actually practice.

Do as I say, not as I do (not to mention the reasoning behind it).

At that point I may have a problem. But it has nothing to do with the "partaking" in and of itself.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[Bonairos]

But as it is I'm just thankful that my life is no longer out of control. . . . . Thankfulness in me today arises from the redemptive power of our Lord who delivered from sin.

Amen my brother. Amen.

I hear you loud and clear.



Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[Pard]

Unless of course one preaches different from what they actually practice.

Do as I say, not as I do (not to mention the reasoning behind it).

At that point I may have a problem. But it has nothing to do with the "partaking" in and of itself.

You're right, let me rephrase that.

"Uh, I don't see a problem with OTHER PEOPLE'S* church figureheads drinking in public or private"

* Our church is dry. It's a Pentecostal thing

 

[reba]

Bonairos

 

[reba]

An early happy birthday to you Sparrowhawke!