Bible Study Dumb Interpretation.

[Chopper]

Over the years, I have preached and taught what I believed to be the truth about 2 Corinthians 12:2-9. I'm not alone in what I believe. Over the years, because of my vow to my Master Christ Jesus to always teach the Truth in spiritual matters, the Spirit of Jesus favored me with understanding that was against many denominational leanings/teachings, especially Baptist,....The following is the text in question.

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
2Co 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Just for those who don't like the KJV, here's the next to my favorite, the ESV....
Paul's Visions and His Thorn
2Co 12:1 I must go on boasting. Though there is nothing to be gained by it, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Co 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.
2Co 12:3 And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—
2Co 12:4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.
2Co 12:5 On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses—
2Co 12:6 though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth; but I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me.
2Co 12:7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
2Co 12:8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me.
2Co 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

I graduated from Glen Cove Bible College at ocean side Rockland, Maine. There's something wonderful about studying for the ministry on the ocean side. One of my Professors taught me many truths about interpretation of truths on controversial subjects in our Bibles by word examination. So, lets look at three words.... (1) Messenger (2) Thorn (3) Buffet.

Sad to say, I and a few other biblical teachers/writers believe what I'm teaching here....
1. Messenger is the Greek word for Angel. "Aggelos" with a definite article "the". This tells me that a particular angel under the orders of Satan is the subject.

So many so called theologians believe that Paul's thorn was some kind of illness. Wow, since when was an angel of Satan (a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me) called eye problems needing salve.

Now lets look at the word "thorn". 12:7. Hebrew & Greek word "thorn" means sharp stake. PLEASE, lets not spiritualize this word to mean what it's not saying.

Now lets see what this sharp stake does to Paul, "Buffet"....Hebrew & Greek wording, means to hit with the fist....Come on now, any interpretation other that what I and others of like mind with some variation, is foolish.

 

[JLB]

Good study.


One thing to keep in mind; “thorn in my flesh” is not literal, but a idiomatic expression like we have today that means
“Pain in the a*#”.

Simply put it’s a source of irritation or discomfort or pain.


The rest is literal.

The fallen angel caused all kinds of trouble for Paul.

I also believe that this messenger, in addition to buffeting Paul, also stirred up people against Paul, as well as demonically inspiring unbelieving Jews to undermine his message of grace, by teaching the Gentiles that they must become circumcised and keep the law of Moses to be saved.

In addition, this messenger of Satan, sent out false Apostles from among the Pharisee’s that may have believed, but were deceived into adding to the message of Christ, circumcision and keeping the law, to the Gentile Churches that Paul was raising up.


Context from 2 Corinthians 11 -


But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
2 Corinthians 11:12-15




JLB

 

[Chopper]

Good study.


One thing to keep in mind; “thorn in my flesh” is not literal, but a idiomatic expression like we have today that means
“Pain in the a*#”.

Simply put it’s a source of irritation or discomfort or pain.


The rest is literal.

The fallen angel caused all kinds of trouble for Paul.

I also believe that this messenger, in addition to buffeting Paul, also stirred up people against Paul, as well as demonically inspiring unbelieving Jews to undermine his message of grace, by teaching the Gentiles that they must become circumcised and keep the law of Moses to be saved.

In addition, this messenger of Satan, sent out false Apostles from among the Pharisee’s that may have believed, but were deceived into adding to the message of Christ, circumcision and keeping the law, to the Gentile Churches that Paul was raising up.


Context from 2 Corinthians 11 -


But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
2 Corinthians 11:12-15




JLB

Some good points to ponder my friend. In texts like these with so many opinions floating around, feel it best to stay literal and simple. When referring to this passage, one of my Professors said KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

[chessman]

And he says exactly (literally) twice what it did to him:

to keep me from becoming conceited ... to keep me from becoming conceited.

Why would bad eyesight cause someone not to be conceited/arrogant???

 

[for_his_glory]

Paul's thorn in the flesh was that of Satan's messenger trying to buffet him. Buffet here means to strike repeatedly as Satan used his demons to come against Paul and persecute him everywhere he went. Paul prayed three times for God to take these persecutions away and God said no as God said "My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness".

God is not going to keep us from being persecuted as even His own Son Christ Jesus was persecuted to death on the cross and many martyrs after him in other ways. Even so still today as many are persecuted even to death for the witness of Christ. God gives us His power and authority through His grace to give us strength when we are persecuted like Paul said:

2Corinthians 12:9 Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Act 9:15; 2 Corinthians 4:8-12; Galatians 5:11; 2 Timothy3:10, 11; 1 Corinthians 15:30-32; 2 Corinthians 4:7-18; 6:3-10; 11:23-28; 12:5-10; Galatians 4:13, 15

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
2Co 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
2Co 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
2Co 6:9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
2Co 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.