Eating His Flesh and drinking His blood

[chestertonrules]

[

Thank you, but I really did not want a Eucharist thread LOL. I wanted to talk about the real meaning of eating the flesh and drinking the blood. But people seem to prefer a debate. Now the tread is stuck in talking about idolatry

Your thread makes no sense.

When Christ talks of eating his flesh and drinking his blood he is talking about the Eucharist.

John 6
53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Matt 26
26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[DarcyLu]

[

Thank you, but I really did not want a Eucharist thread LOL. I wanted to talk about the real meaning of eating the flesh and drinking the blood. But people seem to prefer a debate. Now the tread is stuck in talking about idolatry

Your thread makes no sense.

When Christ talks of eating his flesh and drinking his blood he is talking about the Eucharist.

the thread does make sense if you look at it from a spiritual perspective and stop looking at the eucharist, the point is not a tangible loaf of bread or a little cup of wine - will this give you salvation?

John 6:49 talks about the manna - the pyshical bread, coming down from heaven, but they still died.

John 6:50 is talking about the bread coming down from heaven, which is Jesus, believing Jesus is who He says He is and they live - so it is not something physical we put into our mouths lol.

the spiritual bread is His body, and it is not talking about the eucharist, it is talking about sacrificing His Body at Calvary, this has nothing to do with the eucharist.

Jesus sacrificed His Body for the entire world! the eucharist is only for the believer.

so how does one partake of His Body? and this is NOT talking about the eucharist because if that is all you did - then you will die.

don't you all recall how the Pharisees didn't understand this parable either? they asked Jesus - how can we eat your flesh and drink your blood? how many times did Jesus talk about how His Body was the bread from heaven and that is the way to eternal life, there is so many spiritual connotations in what Jesus said about He being the bread of life -and it's not the eucharist He is talking about!

it's a spiritual matter NOT a loaf of bread one.

 

[chestertonrules]

[quote="DarcyLuthe thread does make sense if you look at it from a spiritual perspective and stop looking at the eucharist, the point is not a tangible loaf of bread or a little cup of wine - will this give you salvation?


.[/quote]

Faith is what saves us. If the Word can become flesh, so can the bread.

Do you believe Jesus?

53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.


Don't be like these people who failed to believe because it was hard to understand:

60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"
61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

 

[francisdesales]

Strawman alert...We don't believe that Jesus is resacrificed, either....

Francis, take your meds.

Is it or is it not a strawman argument, when one posts misinformation - knowing full well we don't believe in a re-sacrifice?

It is what it is...

 

[francisdesales]

<sigh>

Eucharist = eucharisto = to rejoice or give thanks.

The RCC and other orthodox faiths have a tough time considering the real spiritual nature of what Jesus meant because of the steadfast tradition that would be nullified. There is a whole forest out there. Don't let the Eucharist trees get in the way.

Good thread, C! :yes

Is it possible that Protestants have a tough time reading what the Scriptures clearly say without changing the words??? :yes

Have you read John 6:51? The "bread" Jesus gives is His FLESH, not the Word - Scriptures... Unless you eat THAT flesh, the SAME flesh given for the life of the world (not words, since words of the Bible don't forgive us from sin, Jesus fleshy death does), you shall not have eternal life... WHAT is given for the life of the world? WHAT is the Lamb of God, that takes away the sins of the world? The Bible or the flesh and blood of Jesus offered at the Cross, given at the Last Supper to eat???

I think 2000 years of thought on the subject should not be so blithely dismissed, since we believe the Spirit ensures that the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth. The "steadfast tradition" that needs serious analysis is the eigesis of John 6 by Protestants who refuse to eat the flesh of Christ, despite this perfectly clear command. "truly, truly", over and over again...

What is ironic is how these same "metaphor Protestants" blindly follow "literalness" when it clearly does not apply, such as the beginning and end of the Bible. But when God says "TRULY, TRULY", oh, it's a metaphor then...



The Eucharist is much deeper than merely a metaphor.

 

[DarcyLu]

Faith is what saves us. If the Word can become flesh, so can the bread.

Do you believe Jesus?

53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.


Don't be like these people who failed to believe because it was hard to understand:

60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"
61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

hi chestertonrules,
i see these two in a similar light, the first being when the pharisees asked Jesus, "how can we eat of your flesh and drink of your blood" and the 2nd one is when Nicodemus asked Jesus "how can a man be born again", both as spiritual acts, not as literal acts, so that Christ may dwell in us. i also see how the pharisees, along with the pharisee Nicodemus did not understand what Jesus was implying by asking the questions they did.

so then, in light of the above, the OP is asking what does it REALLY mean to "eat of His flesh and drink of His blood"?

God bless -

 

[francisdesales]

John 6:50 is talking about the bread coming down from heaven, which is Jesus, believing Jesus is who He says He is and they live - so it is not something physical we put into our mouths lol.

Yea, Jesus chuckled at the Jews understanding of the reality of what He said, didn't He...

Did Jesus come down from heaven in the flesh or not? This is the Gnostic line of thought - that Jesus didn't really come in the flesh, didn't really die, just appeared to, and that the Eucharist is not really the actual flesh of Jesus Christ. The point Jesus makes in the VERY NEXT VERSE is that the bread He will give IS HIS FLESH, is it not? Flesh is not a "spiritual thing". It is a real thing, Life Itself. God is offering His very self to us. Certainly, there is a spiritual component to this, but it ALSO has a physical component, since Christ DID come in the flesh - God in the flesh.

The issue is denying the physical aspect of the Christ. Thus, we maintain that the Eucharist, the "bread of immortality", is indeed the real life of Jesus, in the flesh, in the form of bread and wine.

This is one of the mainstays of Ancient Christianity.

Regards

 

[Cornelius]

Your thread makes no sense.

When Christ talks of eating his flesh and drinking his blood he is talking about the Eucharist.

Brother, believe me I truly understand that to you it makes no sense.

It did not make sense to the Jews as well , because their understanding was that He meant they must eat His real flesh and drink His real blood.Just like your understanding.
Joh 6:66 Upon this many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Joh 6:67 Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, Would ye also go away?

but the twelve understood the real meaning, so they got to stay . They understood He was not talking about His real flesh and blood . They indeed understood that He was talking about His Word :Joh 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

 

[John]

Did Jesus come down from heaven in the flesh or not? This is the Gnostic line of thought - that Jesus didn't really come in the flesh, didn't really die, just appeared to, and that the Eucharist is not really the actual flesh of Jesus Christ. The point Jesus makes in the VERY NEXT VERSE is that the bread He will give IS HIS FLESH, is it not? Flesh is not a "spiritual thing". It is a real thing, Life Itself. God is offering His very self to us. Certainly, there is a spiritual component to this, but it ALSO has a physical component, since Christ DID come in the flesh - God in the flesh.

I really must admit that i have not dug too deeply into this topic however from a superficial look at it i'd have to say that we do not literally eat Jesus's flesh and drink his literal blood....canibalisim seems rather satanic in nature to me.

 

[Cornelius]

Did Jesus come down from heaven in the flesh or not? This is the Gnostic line of thought - that Jesus didn't really come in the flesh, didn't really die, just appeared to, and that the Eucharist is not really the actual flesh of Jesus Christ. The point Jesus makes in the VERY NEXT VERSE is that the bread He will give IS HIS FLESH, is it not? Flesh is not a "spiritual thing". It is a real thing, Life Itself. God is offering His very self to us. Certainly, there is a spiritual component to this, but it ALSO has a physical component, since Christ DID come in the flesh - God in the flesh.

I really must admit that i have not dug too deeply into this topic however from a superficial look at it i'd have to say that we do not literally eat Jesus's flesh and drink his literal blood....canibalisim seems rather satanic in nature to me.

Hi John, if you read the opening posts, you will see that I am not writing about the RCC Eucharist at all. I did a Bible study on the Word, the wine and bread. The study is solidly based in the Word, but now the thread is going into the Eucharist, which has nothing to do with the bread and the wine of the communion.

 

[John]

ah.

 

[Mysteryman]

Did Jesus come down from heaven in the flesh or not? This is the Gnostic line of thought - that Jesus didn't really come in the flesh, didn't really die, just appeared to, and that the Eucharist is not really the actual flesh of Jesus Christ. The point Jesus makes in the VERY NEXT VERSE is that the bread He will give IS HIS FLESH, is it not? Flesh is not a "spiritual thing". It is a real thing, Life Itself. God is offering His very self to us. Certainly, there is a spiritual component to this, but it ALSO has a physical component, since Christ DID come in the flesh - God in the flesh.

I really must admit that i have not dug too deeply into this topic however from a superficial look at it i'd have to say that we do not literally eat Jesus's flesh and drink his literal blood....canibalisim seems rather satanic in nature to me.

Hi John, if you read the opening posts, you will see that I am not writing about the RCC Eucharist at all. I did a Bible study on the Word, the wine and bread. The study is solidly based in the Word, but now the thread is going into the Eucharist, which has nothing to do with the bread and the wine of the communion.

Hi C.

What communion ?

 

[mondar]

Strawman alert...We don't believe that Jesus is resacrificed, either....

Francis, take your meds.

Is it or is it not a strawman argument, when one posts misinformation - knowing full well we don't believe in a re-sacrifice?

It is what it is...

If you had said... "mondar, that is a misrepresentation and could be considered a straw man argument by some" ... or something like that. Rather then "Strawman alert." It would have been less offensive.

chestertonrules said that same thing, but in far more pleasing language.

If you want to continue the conversation, I would love to see official RCC statements denying that transubstantiation is not a resacrifice.

 

[mondar]

Faith is what saves us. If the Word can become flesh, so can the bread.

Do you believe Jesus?

53Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.


Don't be like these people who failed to believe because it was hard to understand:

60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"
61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

John 6 was spoken long before the institution of the Eucharist. There is non-literal language being used. The meaning of the non-literal language is explained in verse 35.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

So then, in John 6, Jesus says from the start, that the person who has faith, drinks his blood and will never thirst. I dont see a reference to the Eucharist at all in John 6.

 

[chestertonrules]

[

John 6 was spoken long before the institution of the Eucharist. There is non-literal language being used. The meaning of the non-literal language is explained in verse 35.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

So then, in John 6, Jesus says from the start, that the person who has faith, drinks his blood and will never thirst. I dont see a reference to the Eucharist at all in John 6.

I think it is important to remember that the Gospel according to John was written decades after Jesus died. It is very likely that John had participated in dozens if not hundreds of eucharistic feasts before he wrote this gospel. Don't you think it is very likely that he wroted this will full knowledge of the implications regarding the Eucharist?

Also, note that John starts Ch. 6 by telling us that it was the time of Passover. During Passover, Jews eat the sacrificial lamb that was slaughtered for their sins.

 

[francisdesales]

John 6 was spoken long before the institution of the Eucharist. There is non-literal language being used. The meaning of the non-literal language is explained in verse 35.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

The words John used had a particular meaning - it is quite clear that John intends to tell his audience that Jesus was indeed using literal words. IF John wanted to pursue a "merely metaphorical" understanding, he WOULD HAVE USED metaphorical words and would NOT have related "truly, truly, ...".

John 6:35 does nothing to overturn the reality of John 6:51! That's the fallacy of your view. It is clear that Jesus is working His way TO John 6:51 by ensuring His teaching would be understood in literal AND a spiritual manner, not just a spiritual manner. If Jesus would have just said, "you must eat my flesh", that would have been quite confusing. Clearly, there is SOME POINT in eating Christ's Body that goes beyond mere human nourishment...

It is provided for eternal life. Not for physical nourishment.

So then, in John 6, Jesus says from the start, that the person who has faith, drinks his blood and will never thirst. I dont see a reference to the Eucharist at all in John 6.

????

What is the Eucharist, in your understanding? Please provide Scripture verses, if you can.

 

[francisdesales]

If you had said... "mondar, that is a misrepresentation and could be considered a straw man argument by some" ... or something like that. Rather then "Strawman alert." It would have been less offensive.

I think you are "offended" way too easily. This is a charecter trait, I've noticed, with your conversations to others.

You provided a strawman argument, did you not? Did I lie about that?

I alerted people to it. It IS a strawman argument by ANYONE knowledgeable about what the Catholic Church teaches, whether they are atheist, Protestant or whatever. Catholic documents clearly state that we do not believe Jesus is re-sacrificed. Thus, someone who pretends to know otherwise and presents that as fact is indeed presenting a strawman argument. Are you upset because I told you that you were wrong???

If my language is not pleasing to you, you certainly didn't take the morale high road by telling me to "take my meds", so stop being a hypocrite. Being told to "take my meds" if quite more offensive than being told I am presenting an fallacious argument !!!

If you want to see where the Catholic Church officially tells the world that we do not believe Christ is resacrificed, consult the Council of Trent and its discussion on the subject.

 

[Cornelius]

Mondar makes a valid point that needs to be answered.

Are there any Catholics that has never been thirsty again and did not hunger again, since eating the Eucharist, seeing that it is real food and real drink ? But I think you guys would do a mid-air jump and turn around and say...."Oh no, that part is spiritual ! " It cannot mean heaven, because it says NEVER. Never means never and as such started at the very point of "eating and drinking"

Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

 

[Cornelius]

Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

So does this mean you can eat Him instead of a meal ?

 

[chestertonrules]

Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

So does this mean you can eat Him instead of a meal ?

You are pointing out one of the many problems with Protestantism. It rationalizes away any difficult beliefs.

Do you believe that the Word became flesh? Do you believe that the Trinity is three persons but One God? Do you believe that those who die in God's good grace are alive and oberving us from heaven?

The belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist was held by all Christians for over 1000 years. It was held by Martin Luther. This doubt about the power of God is a new heresy that arose after the Reformation.

Like GK Chesterton(a convert to Catholicism) said, atheism is the opposite of Catholicism.