Bible Study Either you believe Paul's gospel or you don't

[AVBunyan]

This issue of OSAS is real simple. Paul declares the gospel:

1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

Paul says that if one believes the gospel then they are saved:
1 Cor 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

And yes some do believe in vain for they do not really believe the gospel Paul preached – I’ll show you.

Here is the gospel Paul is talking about:

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Cor 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

They key – CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS!

Let’s ask some questions here:

1. Does the word say that Christ died for your sins (we will make it personal here)?
2. Which sins did he die for 2000 years ago – some or all?
3. Was what Christ did sufficient for your sins?
4. Was God’s blood (see Acts 20:28) sufficient to take away your sins?
5. Do you feel what God did at Calvary was not sufficient for your sins?
6. What more can you add to what Christ already did?
7. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT CHRIST DIED FOR YOUR SINS?

IF Christ died for your sins then you can do no more. By saying that you can lose your salvation then you are saying that you do not believe that Christ DIED FOR YOUR SINS. Either you are in Christ and your sins are gone or you are out of Christ and still in your sins. I leave you with two verses for your edification.
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

If you in Christ and Christ is in you then according to Paul you are SEALED and you do not have the power or authority to UNSEAL yourself! Tough apples – if you are saved then you are already home: Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
You are going to heaven if God truly did a work in you – you may go kicking and screaming but you are going!

Question - do you believe Paul's gospel as defined clearly in I Cor. 15:1-5 or not?

God bless!

 

[JM]

AV, I always enjoy your posts.

 

[Khristeeanos]

What happens to those who reject the faith or stop being a disciple of Christ?

Do they have salvation apart from faith?

 

[AVBunyan]

What happens to those who reject the faith or stop being a disciple of Christ?

Do they have salvation apart from faith?

If they are in Christ they stay in Christ.

 

[destiny]

What happens to those who reject the faith or stop being a disciple of Christ?

Do they have salvation apart from faith?

If they are in Christ they stay in Christ.

Do you think it's possible for someone who was once in Christ to turn away from Christ?

 

[Khristeeanos]

What happens to those who reject the faith or stop being a disciple of Christ?

Do they have salvation apart from faith?

If they are in Christ they stay in Christ.

Do you think it's possible for someone who was once in Christ to turn away from Christ?

Here are some verses to consider:

John 6:66
From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

1 Timothy 1:5-6
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk.

1 Timothy 1:18-19
Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have shipwrecked their faith.

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in the latter times, some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

1 Timothy 5:11-15
As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to. So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander. Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many greifs.

1 Timothy 6:20-21
Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have wandered away from the faith. Grace be with you.

2 Timothy 2:16-18
Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

 

[AVBunyan]

Ephesians 1 & 2

Here are some verses to consider:

Honestly - hard to comment on those verses because of the version being used but I think I know where you are coming from. None of those verses by Paul say that one can lose his standing before God. One can wander but you cannot wander out of his body which is in heaven.

May I respectfully suggest you read through Ephesians 1 and 2 while underlining the PAST TENSE words and then tell me how you, in your own power and authority, can undo what God already did.

Thansk and may God bless

 

[Khristeeanos]

Well, God has promised Christians that sin leads to spiritual death.

Romans 8:12-13
...we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Galatians 5:19-21; 6:7-10
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God...Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
It is God's will that you be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should take advantage of him. The LORD will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man, but God, who gives you His Holy Spirit.

These are warnings given to Christians who experienced those "past tense" words in Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 2 and yet Paul didn't shy away from telling them they could still:

• [*]die spiritually[/*:m:40e4e]
  [*]not inherit the kingdom of God[/*:m:40e4e]
  [*]be punished for sexual sins and reject the Holy Spirit[/*:m:40e4e]

It seems pretty clear to me what is being said.

 

[AVBunyan]

Same ole thing

Well, God has promised Christians that sin leads to spiritual death..

Same ole story - scriptures taken out of context from different versions that are corrupt.

Same ole story - pure works salvation - Jesus opens the door and you hope to get in with your own righteousness (rags by the way).

The folks you are referring to are:
1. Not the ones in Ephesians
2. Taken out of context or misinterpreted - meaning Paul is not talking about eternal separation.

Final analysis:
1. Get a King James Bible
2. Don't read into what is not there
3. Quit trusting in your own efforts and flee to Christ.

Have a nice day now!

 

[liafailrock]

Re: Same ole thing

AVBunyan:

This becomes the "eternal security" question. I hear people bandy that back and forth on all kinds of forums. But in this same forum, we are discussing marriage, divorce and remarriage.

No matter how pitiful people's stories are, no matter "how much happier" they are now, or no matter what the circumstances, I hold the ground according to God's Word that when two people marry, they are married until one or the other dies in God's eyes--- all other "spouses" are illegal. Period. I'm sorry, that's how it is.

So why would that not be the same reasoning between Christ and His church? So, I must agree with you here. The covenant between husband and wife is unbreakable no matter who runs away, wears funny clothes or whatever.

But for those who believe it is possible to become divorced from Christ, then I must logically say that reconciliation would be impossible. The Law of Moses made no provision to take back a divorced wife if she slept with and married another man. When the Lord divorced Israel the first time, only His death could legally free them to remarry (or by contrast, Paul actually compares that to the death of the wife--- either way, a death took place for the New Covenant). However, if one could fall away, there is NO MORE death of the husband, and that is referenced in Hebrews 6:4-6.

However, unlike before, I do not believe God is too quick to allow a divorce this time since there is no more atoning death to take place--- therefore, the marriage covenant is permanent.

 

[Khristeeanos]

Re: Same ole thing

Well, God has promised Christians that sin leads to spiritual death..

Same ole story - scriptures taken out of context from different versions that are corrupt.

Same ole story - pure works salvation - Jesus opens the door and you hope to get in with your own righteousness (rags by the way).

The folks you are referring to are:
1. Not the ones in Ephesians
2. Taken out of context or misinterpreted - meaning Paul is not talking about eternal separation.

Final analysis:
1. Get a King James Bible
2. Don't read into what is not there
3. Quit trusting in your own efforts and flee to Christ.

Have a nice day now!

Faith based salvation.
I have the original 1611 version of the KJV and can't read it - it is in a different language.

I do'nt have time to respond to all of your post right now. More later.

 

[AVBunyan]

Re: Same ole thing

1. Faith based salvation.
2. I have the original 1611 version of the KJV and can't read it - it is in a different language.

1. No, Christ based salvation.

2. The average word in my King James Bible (which you can get at Wal-Mart for $5.95) is 5 letters or less - what is so difficult about that?

My children don't have much trouble with it.
What is the big deal here? Millions before you had no touble with a King James Bible.

But now this modern, educated world can't get it. It is because they are blind.

A different language you say? You are right - the langaugae of a King James Bible is a heavenly, divine English - no wonder many, such as yourself, just can't get it or even like it. :roll:

 

[Free]

A different language you say? You are right - the langaugae of a King James Bible is a heavenly, divine English

lol! It's just old, outdated English, nothing more.

no wonder many, such as yourself, just can't get it or even like it.

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself.

 

[AVBunyan]

Old English

lol! It's just old, outdated English, nothing more.

Wasn't outdated until the last 50 years or so - the majority of folks up until then had no issues with it - only the "smart folks" of this century have had issues. God never has placed to much emphasis on the "wise" anyway.

1 Cor 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1 Cor 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1 Cor 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1 Cor 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

no wonder many, such as yourself, just can't get it or even like it.

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself.

Well, with all the verbage on this forum to have the above be called "flaming" is interesting. But I'm not rebellious when it comes to authority so I'll seek to be more careful here as far as concience allows.

 

[Sara929]

Re: Old English

lol! It's just old, outdated English, nothing more.

Wasn't outdated until the last 50 years or so - the majority of folks up until then had no issues with it - only the "smart folks" of this century have had issues. God never has placed to much emphasis on the "wise" anyway.

Yeah, Spurgeon was an idiot afterall :roll:

 

[Sara929]

Re: Old English

lol! It's just old, outdated English, nothing more.

Wasn't outdated until the last 50 years or so - the majority of folks up until then had no issues with it - only the "smart folks" of this century have had issues. God never has placed to much emphasis on the "wise" anyway.

So was Spurgeon an idiot?

 

[Dean]

I personally don't understand what was wrong with the Vulgate. Once you start TRANSLATING the Bible, where will it end? Spanish?!?!?!
All folks really need is to read Hebrew and Greek. Get with the PROGRAM, people. My three-year-old can do it!

btw, what verse references the perfection of the KJV?
Is it in Revelation?:

"I, John, stood before the Angel of Translation. Books had he, and scrolls unto each of His hands. He saith unto me: "Behold, the LORD shall yet commission a translation of English, a language that doth verily not yet exist. Willest the LORD that it shouldst be the sole version; He wouldst not be bespoke through naught other. All versions else of no account shall be, save for the FIRE. To all men thereafter [1611] it shall remain unto them to figure it out! Thus shall all men understandeth that whenst the LORD speaketh, he is Olde, Danke and Dustie, and His Living Word is ONLY contained in old wineskins. And also, if ye makest thou a film of the Life of our LORD, it must needs be in Black and White, and not be a talkie, but silent shall remain. For colour, and sound, and modern vernacular verily are the tools of the Adversary, in addition to refrigeration, by which no man shall be saved, but leftovers only. "

Monty Python would have had a field day with the KJV only silliness.

Wasn't that fun? Y'all have a sugary sweet day!

 

[Khristeeanos]

Re: Same ole thing

A different language you say? You are right - the langaugae of a King James Bible is a heavenly, divine English - no wonder many, such as yourself, just can't get it or even like it. :roll:

I find it quite ironic that a "Protestant" uses a Bible that was translated by a church that persecuted and killed "Protestants." :roll:

 

[AVBunyan]

Re: Same ole thing

I find it quite ironic that a "Protestant" uses a Bible that was translated by a church that persecuted and killed "Protestants." :roll:

I am not a "Protestant" - I am an Independent Baptist


There are tons of websites that explain your misunderstanding of what took place in 1611 if you are interested.

Anyway - What church are you referring to - the majority of the tranlators in 1611 were Anglican - I wouldn't really care if they were Martian - God is sovereign and he works all things after the council of his own will. It was God who directed the men to put down what he wanted, when he wanted and I have his words now in a King James bible, perfect, inspried and without error or mixture of error. Isn't that wonderful?

Aren't you thankful we have access to his words?

 

[Dean]

Re: Same ole thing

I am not a "Protestant" - I am an Independent Baptist

Thanks for clearing THAT up - I gather then that Independent Baptists are like Jesuits - an order within the RC Church. You're right about Anglicans translating the KJV, though - - (that was a wild pitch, PL - runner, take your base).

"a King James bible, perfect, inspried and without error or mixture of error. Isn't that wonderful?"

I just wish it were FACTUAL. Again, I repeat, what verse addresses the translative perfection of the KJV? Where might I find this fun factoid in Scripture?

The only thing I know of that is perfect and without error or mixture of error is God Himself.

AV, God is tough to keep in a box. The Israelites had Him in the Ark for a time, and God dwelled in a temple made of hands for a time. But when we look for a ROCK, there is none other than Christ Himself. That is wonderful, and that is frightening, because we look for certainty, and GOD seems not to give that to his servants, be they NOAH, ABRAHAM, ISAAC, JACOB MOSES, DAVID. He is the only worthy repository of your faith, not a particular translation of His Word. Trust Him to deal with swahili, and the hippy-dippy "Living Bible" translations. As the saying goes, It's not the sword, its the SWORDSMAN.

Aren't you thankful we have access to his words

"From the KJV to the NIV,
On THIS can we wholeheartedly agree."