Bible Study Errors of a cult (SDA)

[evanman]

Sayings of Ellen G White:

But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64

"God was speaking through clay. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision - the precious rays of light shining from the throne." VISIONS OF MRS. E. G. WHITE TESTIMONY 31 p. 63

"When I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God." E. G. WHITE TESTIMONIES Vol 5 p. 661

When reading Desire of Ages, on page 62 or 87 depending which version one has, in the 10th paragraph of chapter 9 "Days of Conflict", Ellen G White states, "All this displeased His brothers. Being older than Jesus, they felt that He should be under their dictation."

“The heart of his disciples fainted within them. The mother of JESUS was agonized, almost beyond endurance, and as they stretched JESUS upon the cross, and were about to fasten his hands with the cruel nails to the wooden arms, the disciples bore the mother of JESUS from the scene, that she might not hear the crashing of the nails, as they were driven through the bone and muscle of his tender hands and feet.†Spiritual Gifts Volume I, p.58

“It is a sin to be sick; for all sickness is the result of transgression†(Counsels on Health, p. 37).

“The Lord first established the system of sacrificial offerings with Adam after his fall, which he taught to his descendants. This system was corrupted before the flood by those who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God, and engaged in the building of the tower of Babel. They sacrificed to gods of their own making instead of the God of Heaven.†Spiritual Gifts Volume 3 pg.301

 

[John the Baptist]

John,

No doubt that you have studied much of her work, but have you actually researched her, both the pros and cons? She has make some very outlandish claims durning her life. Let me point out a few...

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John here: Hi, I am back! :fadein? Anyway this surely has become an interesting thread. Cult and Seventh-day Adventists? Or some thing like that???

You have made a remark of 'outlandish claims'? Then you say 'Let me point out a few'? OK: I am not a mind reader, but you say that i am defending these 'outlandish claims', so can I now see what this posting will accomplish?
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(Taken from 'Top Embarrassing Statements of Ellen G. White'...
http://www.biblebelievers.com/SDA/SDA3.html#3-a )

"People are continually eating flesh that is filled with tuberculous and cancerous germs. Tuberculosis, cancer, and other fatal diseases are thus communicated." (The Ministry of Healing, p.313).

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John here: Vic, last week my wife got her Adventist review. (Feb. 2004 pg. 22-23 Church magazine) It [documents] the truth of the above paragraph completely! Do I need to put in a paragraph?
Quote: "It will take the general population 40-50 years to catch the current Adventist life expectancy at the present rates of increase in longevity.'' This is a study that was done on California Adventist. Here is just one more paragraph.
Quote: Adventist men in Cal. live an amazing 7.3 years longer than non-Adventist men, and the advantage for Adventist women is 4.4 years. (notice) The equivalent figures for vegetarian Adventist men, and Adventist women is 9.5 and 6.6 years for men and women, respectively."

Now, it continues on to explain that all die of the same causes, but at different ages. How does the statement that you quote say anything different?
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"The violation of the fourth commandment is not confined to the preparation of food. Many carelessly put off blacking their boots, and shaving, until after the beginning of the Sabbath. This should not be. If any neglect to do such work on a working day, they should have respect enough for God's holy time to let their beards remain unshaven, their boots rough and brown, until the Sabbath is past. This might help their memory, and make them more careful to do their own work on the six working days." (Signs of the Times, May 25, 1882).

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John here: This I answered before, huh? Your above thoughts consider embarrassing to the Mother of Christ for her & others preparing the anointing spices for Christ's burial on the preparation day before the Sabbath, and then waiting until the Sabbath was past to do this work?? And your 'shoe blacking' (or pollishing) source & you agree that, that is even more sacred??? Try Isa. 58:12-14
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"The human family was presented before me, enfeebled. Every generation has been growing weaker, and disease of every form visits the human race.... Satan's power upon the human family increases. IF THE LORD SHOULD NOT SOON COME AND DESTROY HIS POWER, THE EARTH WOULD SOON BE DEPOPULATED." (E.G. White, Testimony No.8, p.94, in Spiritual Gifts III-IV, Battle Creek, Steam Press, 1864, emphasis supplied).

(rebuttal...According to the Korea Times of May 14, 1998 the world population began the century at 1.6 billion and will hit 6 billion before the year 2000. Should the world last, population experts fear that there may be as many as 27 billion people living on the face of this planet by the year 2150. Are we facing a problem of DEPOPULATION or OVERPOPULATION? If this prophecy was wrong, how many of her other prophecies, like the ones in the Great Controversy, are also wrong?)

"At this time immense forests were buried. These have since been changed to coal, forming the extensive coal beds that now exist, and also yielding large quantities of oil. The coal and oil frequently ignite and burn beneath the surface of the earth. Thus rocks are heated, limestone is burned, and iron ore melted. The action of the water upon the lime adds fury to the intense heat, and causes earthquakes, volcanoes, and fiery issues. As the fire and water come in contact with ledges of rock and ore, there are heavy explosions underground, which sound like muffled thunder. The air is hot and suffocating. Volcanic eruptions follow; and these often failing to give sufficient vent to the heated elements, the earth itself is convulsed, the ground heaves and swells like the waves of the sea, great fissures appear, and sometimes cities, villages, and burning mountains are swallowed up." (Patriarchs and Prophets, p.108).

(rebuttal...The real cause of earthquakes: "The immediate cause of most shallow earthquakes is the sudden release of stress along a fault, or fracture, in the earth's crust, resulting in the movement of opposing blocks of rock past one another. This causes vibrations to pass through and around the earth in wave form." (The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia, Copyright, 1995 by Columbia University Press.) Volcanic eruptions are not caused by coal and oil burning beneath the earth's surface. They are caused by rising magma, regions of molten rock material, beneath the earth's surface.)

"By lacing, the internal organs of women are crowded out of their positions. There is scarcely a woman that is thoroughly healthy. The majority of women have numerous ailments. Many are troubled with weaknesses of most distressing nature. These fashionably dressed women cannot transmit good constitutions to their children. Some women have naturally small waists. But rather than regard such forms as beautiful, they should be viewed as defective. These wasp waists may have been transmitted to them from their mothers, as the result of their indulgence in the sinful practice of tight-lacing, and in consequence of imperfect breathing. Poor children born of these miserable slaves of fashion have diminished vitality, and are predisposed to take on disease. The impurities retained in the system in consequence of imperfect breathing are transmitted to their offspring." (Health Reformer, November 1, 1871).
"But my waist is naturally slender, says one woman. She means that she has inherited small lungs. Her ancestors, more or less of them, compressed their lungs in the same way that we do, and it has become in her case a congenital deformity." (Health Reformer, October 31, 1871).

(rebuttal...The idea that acquired physical characteristics are passed genetically to the next generation is nothing more than a myth. There is no scientific evidence that acquired physical characteristics can be passed down to the next generation. It was simply a 19th century myth that has been discarded by the modern medical community.)

(skips the bunk on masturbation- :wink: )

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John again: Well Vic, it seems that I am a few days behind? I posted a reply on this post & you had already taken the stand that I am in 'defense' of the E.G. White statements?

Let me give your another angle to work from, OK? I find no problem with the writings of E.G. White, period. I would not want to try to read ones mind or motives (including you) in ANY WAY though. Yet, the bottom line from my Bible STUDY over many years, finds Ellen White agreeing with [me] mostly.

I could go on with this? But, is there any interest??? There is so much stuff being 'selected' (and pasted) in a thread that seems out in left field to what a cult is, unless you are not telling me with clear bottom line postings? Hay, don't be bashful :wink:, it seems that God has His message in just about all of the world now, & that 'none' so far are stoping it with this method? Matt. 24:14.

If there is any true interest, then perhaps one might just pick out a couple quotes at a time to reply on? (see Zeph. 1:12) By the way, what on earth are you trying to imply that amalgamation is saying??? (that is non/scriptual)

And 'scape-goat'?? Do you understand the Ps. 77:13's Sanctuary Doctrine?? Just a quick question. What & where does the word come from Vic? Now, think what scape goat implies.

Let me do some more vacilateing of thread (perhaps) in closing? Surely most would understand that I thank my Master & give Him Thanks for His Love & Grace to me. We feel duty bound to live as healthy as we know how.

My wife & I have some property scatered in S.C. We just bought 4.8 ac. (? aprox.) Anyway I have been doing some work over there the past few days. This 'cultic' healthful lifestyle subject (?) brings to mind a conversation that I had with my son on the phone (in another state) last evening. I told him that I had my 16' ladder in a tree full of vines that I was cleaning them out of. I had cut the bottom of them off which some were an inch around. Anyway, I was up over the top of the ladder, and into the top of the tree clearing out the vines. Hay Frank! I told him, what do you think of an old man 71+ years old doing that??? :fadein: (he is 44)

Don't get the wrong idea Vic, I try not to be presumptous! (see Psalms 19:13) And I am careful! And I believe in my guardian angels! I told my wife & Frank that.. I suspect that they were asking each other, what in the world is that old coot up to next? :roll:

OK: Read Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9. Is that Truth for [you] or not?? Do you believe it? (sure there are special cases) But, people can't quite smoking? Drinking? Diet? Perversion? Sin? Are there folks like this before 'conversion' or after conversion Vic? See 1 Cor. 6:9-11.

---John

 

[Vic C.]

Whoa there partner! I thought my posts were straight up. YOU asked me to give you page numbers concerning my Ellen G. White quotes. I did that and more. I also gave you Biblical references that prove she contradicted the Bible. Did you not see them? :-? Instead, you went on and answered posts that you had previously answered.

Ok John...I will throw just a qoute or two at ya for now. If after you read her remarks and the verses that dispute her...and you still take her word over God's, then all I can do is pray for you. She said these things. No one is misquoting her at all. Let's start with these.....From 'The Great Controversy'.

(and stay off those tall ladders! :wink: )

1) the plan of salvation was made after the Fall.....
She wrote in her 'Great Controversy', "The kingdom of grace was instituted immediately after the fall of man, when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race."
pg. 347

What the Bible says...
1 Pet 1:18-20 "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you."

Eph 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."

8 ) Satan bears our sins.....
'Great Controversy'- "It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed."
pg. 422

What the Bible says...
1 Pet 2:24 "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

13) the seal of God was the Sabbath, not the Spirit.....
'Great Controversy'- "The enemies of God's law, from the ministers down to the least among them, have a new conception of truth and duty. Too late they see that the Sabbath of the fourth commandment is the seal of the living God."
pg. 640

What the Bible says...
Eph 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

 

[John the Baptist]

Whoa there partner! I thought my posts were straight up. YOU asked me to give you page numbers concerning my Ellen G. White quotes. I did that and more. I also gave you Biblical references that prove she contradicted the Bible. Did you not see them? :-? Instead, you went on and answered posts that you had previously answered.

Ok John...I will throw just a qoute or two at ya for now. If after you read her remarks and the verses that dispute her...and you still take her word over God's, then all I can do is pray for you. She said these things. No one is misquoting her at all. Let's start with these.....From 'The Great Controversy'.

(and stay off those tall ladders! :wink: )

1) the plan of salvation was made after the Fall.....
She wrote in her 'Great Controversy', "The kingdom of grace was instituted immediately after the fall of man, when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race."
pg. 347

*****
John here: Vic, don't be a party to 1/2 truth ok? Notice the rest of the statement. And please take note of what I will print about this later edition of the G.C. Here is the rest of the statement.

"The kingdom of grace was instituted immediatly after the fall of man, when a plan was devised for the redemption of the guilty race. It then existed in the purpose and by the promise of God; and through faith, men could becomr its subjects. Yet it was not actually established until the death of Christ. ..."

Do I agree with that? (I will answer that with a qualification for now! But take note at the bottom of this thought) Now notice this statement in bk. 3 of Selected Messages by E.G.W. in APPENDIX pg. 435 "There are still some score or more quotations in the book whose authority we have been so far unable to trace." This is a small part of 'A statement made by W.C. White before the General Conference Council, October 30, 1911. Your quoted 'source' is not one of these mentioned.

Notice this statement from Patriarchs and Prophets pg. 63 by E.G.W.
"But divine love [had conceived a plan] whereby man might be redeemed." OK: One might stop there & still see it your source's way, huh? But notice on down a dozen or so lines? ["The plan of salvation had been laid before the foundation of the world"] (Rev. 13:8); yet it was a struggle, even with the King of the universe, to yield up His Son to die for the guilty race."

The PLAN of Salvation is ETERNAL in forknowledge! Rom. 4:17's last part. It is called Rev. 14:6's EVERLASTING GOSPEL! (by the early Adventists) You need to remember that E.G.W. [[[ALWAYS]]] HAD ENEMIES! :wink:

Here is the earlier qualifying condition Vic. Selected Messages Bk. 1 Pg. 57-58. And notice that 'but few' [honor] these documented requests?? Adventist General Conf., your 'source', you, and the Adventist denomination on both sides are some of the worst violators! Here is what E.G.W. penned.

"Regarding the testimonies, NOTHING IS IGNORED; NOTHING IS CAST ASIDE; BUT [TIME AND PLACE] must be considered ..." It might be interesting to quote a paragraph of her dated material by the Adventist leadership as they HAVE done, while omitting [her later] conditional remarks about them?

Here is some more from the same book pg. 58. "Many from among our own people are writing to me asking with earnest determination the privilege of using my writings to give force to certain subjects which they wish to present to the people in such a way as to leave a deep impression upon them. ... [but I would not venture to give my approval in using the messages in this way, ... nevertheless I dare not give the least license for using my writings in this manner which they propose]."

Just a question comes to mind, would a R-E-A-L Christian honor this dead persons wishes??
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...[/b] 1 Pet 1:18-20 "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you."

Eph 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love."

8 ) Satan bears our sins.....
'Great Controversy'- "It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed."
pg. 422

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John again: Just a question Vic. (I doubt if you would understand anything that would be short! :fadein: 'me either!) Being Babtist it would be hard to see my thought here anyway perhaps? But, you do believe in an eternal burning hell. (your doctrine at least) My thought question is this, do your believe that the GodHead who had for/knowledge of the ones who would be saved & the hudge number of the lost ones, can you honestly say that you believe that they would have Christ suffer and die for these that they knew would sin the sin against the Holy Ghost??? Let me refraze it? say that Christ died for the Heb. 6:6 ones?? (see Eze. 18:24-28) You can have honest differances with me if you want, but I do NOT BELIEVE ANY SUCH STUFF! That is not the Sanctuary two goat truth [for me].

Now: I take it one step further! I believe that the heavenly angels that rebelled had the same EVERLASTING GOSPEL FUTURE [CONSUMMANTED] BY FAITH PLAN, as we do. There IS a Mercy Seat in Heaven Throne Room's Most Holy Place! (See Matt. 25:1 & Rev. 14:6 & Heb. 13:20)
And are we to think that 's'atan who had passed ALL BOUNDARIES of his probation, and all the while with his hatred of Christ, would then see the GodHead have Christ then come and die for his work of OPEN FORKNOWLEDGE blasphemy? Rev. 11:19 & Rev. 22:9!! You better betcha that satan is the scaoegoat! See Lev. 16:8-10 & verse 26.
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What the Bible says...
1 Pet 2:24 "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed."

13) the seal of God was the Sabbath, not the Spirit.....
'Great Controversy'- "The enemies of God's law, from the ministers down to the least among them, have a new conception of truth and duty. Too late they see that the Sabbath of the fourth commandment is the seal of the living God."

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John here: Rather than go over this 'seal' again, I will see if I can find a previous work that I have done on this & past it up. But [SURELY] this is simple truth! If ye LOVE ME keep my commandments! :fadein: One of them IS HIS SABBATH COMMANDMENT!

And about the early reformation? It also had a good start! (but where did it mature to? you don't surely die! Sunday sacredness! eternal burning hell! once saved always saved & on & on!) Check Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 for the SAME repeat that has happened over & over again! Do you believe it? That matters not, it is a fact! And the DOOR WAS SHUT Luke 13:25 & Matt. 25:10-12. Matt. 23:38 & Rev. 18:4 THIS TESTING IS ETERNALLY FATAL if omitted!!! And in Noah's day 'see' Gen. 6:4's STRIVING of the Holy Spirit for a persons last grieved away time period : 1 Peter 4:17. See Gen. 7:16.
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pg. 640

What the Bible says...
Eph 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

******
Vic, this is 'old' false misunderstood Baptist news! It has been around about as long as when America came upon the mayflower scene. Why have only Babtist's accepted it as you teach it? Even the USA banking system has ALWAYS had 'ernest' money as an down payment following on with A CLOSING TIME!

 

[evanman]

Guess no one wants to comment on the Ellen G White quotations I placed.

 

[John the Baptist]

--Sorry Friend!--

Guess no one wants to comment on the Ellen G White quotations I placed.

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Sayings of Ellen G White:

Quote:
But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere. Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64

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John here:
Hi, tell me what you are claiming that she has said here? I cannot read [her or your mind].
(nor do I desire to)
Surely you can find some birds of today, filling the bill? There is a breed of (pigeons) called parlor tumblers that are good for what? Mans curiosity?? And a 'fantail' breed also, that can barely fly at best. (pretty? Sure, but also very sad)

And, the [white?] race of the pygmy, that surely was not the hight of the original GodHeads creation as far as I am concerned.
*******


Quote:
"God was speaking through clay. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision - the precious rays of light shining from the throne." VISIONS OF MRS. E. G. WHITE TESTIMONY 31 p. 63

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John again:
I have no trouble with this. It is what Acts 2 & Joel 2 testify too! (male & female) And we will see them come again! The problem that will also come, is what is its true meaning? Personally, I find that the one not believing this, is the problem! In the last days Christ said that 'Knowledge shall be increased'! And in Hosea 4:6 we are told to reject KNOWLEDGE WILL FIND US REJECTED! Remember, that in these 'last days', we already HAVE THE 66 Bks. of the Master's Word. So the test of truth WILL NEVER FIND this knowledge contrary to truth! But we WILL still see more of it!

By the way, what do you do with all of the other 'gifts of the Holy Spirit'??
******


Quote:
"When I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God." E. G. WHITE TESTIMONIES Vol 5 p. 661


Quote:
When reading Desire of Ages, on page 62 or 87 depending which version one has, in the 10th paragraph of chapter 9 "Days of Conflict", Ellen G White states, "All this displeased His brothers. Being older than Jesus, they felt that He should be under their dictation."

******
Me again:
Do you not believe that Christ had half brothers?
******


Quote:
“The heart of his disciples fainted within them. The mother of JESUS was agonized, almost beyond endurance, and as they stretched JESUS upon the cross, and were about to fasten his hands with the cruel nails to the wooden arms, the disciples bore the mother of JESUS from the scene, that she might not hear the crashing of the nails, as they were driven through the bone and muscle of his tender hands and feet.†Spiritual Gifts Volume I, p.58

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Me again: Do you think that God the Father would not do this for Mary???
Do you understand what Christ meant when He said 'My God, My God, why hath Thou forsaken me'? Put yourself in the place of the disciples, what would you have done? I have no problem with this either!
******


Quote:
“It is a sin to be sick; for all sickness is the result of transgression†(Counsels on Health, p. 37).

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Me again:
Well, I suspect that it is sin that has caused sickness! Anyway, look at 2 Tim. 3:16 & Isa. 2eight:9-10 to understand what she might be saying? I gave a reference to Selected Messages bk. 1 pg. 57-58 in another post, where she told about studying her work. This above quote in part by you, might be a good example how we come to the wrong thought, huh?
*****


Quote:
“The Lord first established the system of sacrificial offerings with Adam after his fall, which he taught to his descendants. This system was corrupted before the flood by those who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God, and engaged in the building of the tower of Babel. They sacrificed to gods of their own making instead of the God of Heaven.†Spiritual Gifts Volume 3 pg.301

******
Hi, me again:
Gen. 3:15 finds this as truth most believe. Do you read what I read in Gen. 4:7? There were no more sons of Adam until Seth came on the scene aprox. 120 years later. Cain in the verse had finally killed Abel. And we see that up until this recorded time, his only fault was in the required offering pointing by faith to Christ future sacrifice! But, notice that Christ was talking to two identies in the verse! Cain sinned the sin unto death, and his new desire was for whom? See Rev. 3:9. So what was Cains sacrifice now, (fruit!) think of Sunday for Gods Seventh Day Sabbath REQUIREMENT!

Sorry for the delay in answering! (smile!) About the above question? Read again Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15. Then look at Matt. 24:14 & Rom. 10:18?? Surely Paul could have made shipwreck over this if he had not understood the Eccl. verses!

John's concluded remarks
********

_________________
Christ over christianity!

 

[John the Baptist]

Sayings of Ellen G White:

(Removed for another thought for this one--John)

“The Lord first established the system of sacrificial offerings with Adam after his fall, which he taught to his descendants. This system was corrupted before the flood by those who separated themselves from the faithful followers of God, and engaged in the building of the tower of Babel. They sacrificed to gods of their own making instead of the God of Heaven.†Spiritual Gifts Volume 3 pg.301

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Hi, most folk here have written much, huh? When going back over your work, do you ever find mis/spelled words? Most likely you will find them after repeated screening. And other's with perhap discriptive thoughts?? Some times it takes post after post to 'see' what most people are saying. Well we know that some of us are busy writings 'some' things very positive about others, huh?

But this E.G.W. person has written.. "At the time of her death her literary productions consister of well over 100,000 pages; 24 books in written circulsation; 4,600 periodical articles in journals of the church: 200 or more out-of-print tracts and pamplets; 6,000 typewritten manuscrips documents consisting of letters and general manuscrips, aggregating approximately 40,000 typewritten pages; 20000 handwritten letters and documents and diaries, journals, et cetera, when copied comprising 20,000 typewritten pages." See Seventh-day Adventist ENCYCLOPEDIA Vol. 10 pg.1413 ... but she cannot be trusted because of a word which might be left out? Is the Master's Word free from human error? Hardly!

Or do we find all of our postings error free? I will give another thought about the remark above that might be the case. Read it! Read it again! Would you catch the thought that E.G. White NEVER in the least degree believed or EVER again suggested if [you even see] that the 'tower' is on the wrong side of the flood? and that she NO WHERE ever believed or taught that? now why would she say that? Think!

Perhaps it needed a word that was left out of the passage, such as 'and [later] engaged in the building of Babel' ? Regardless, this latter meaning is & was her true teaching.

Now: About my Master's Eccl. verses. What do you think that USA (and others!) are doing spending billions of dollars building the tower to the planet of Mars?? And some think of USA as a Christian nation that is not
tied to the Babylon of Rev. 17:5?

And what about your 'tower building' of Rev. 17:5 CAPTITAL LETTERS? And we ask question about 'CULTS' :robot: :robot:

---John

 

[Vic C.]

But this E.G.W. person has written.. "At the time of her death her literary productions consister of well over 100,000 pages; 24 books in written circulsation; 4,600 periodical articles in journals of the church: 200 or more out-of-print tracts and pamplets; 6,000 typewritten manuscrips documents consisting of letters and general manuscrips, aggregating approximately 40,000 typewritten pages; 20000 handwritten letters and documents and diaries, journals, et cetera, when copied comprising 20,000 typewritten pages." See Seventh-day Adventist ENCYCLOPEDIA Vol. 10 pg.1413 ... but she cannot be trusted because of a word which might be left out? Is the Master's Word free from human error? Hardly!

And all this means what? That she was prolific? Well that hardly accounts for anything. Jesus wrote nothing, that is nothing that was recorded. Sure, it is said that He wrote twice in the dirt with a stick, but we have no idea what it was He wrote. Yet, His words as recorded by His followers IS Gospel. You can not say the writings of Ellen are even equal or comparable to the Bible.

John, you pointed out above that she retracted some of her teachings for Truth in her later writings. That is hardly the mark of a true prophet. I can't even count on one finger the number of Bible prophets that had to correct their prophecies. They got it right the first time through Divine inspiration. If Ellen was truely God-inspired, she would have gotten them right the first time too.

We have given you plenty of Ellen G. White quotes, with page numbers as you requested. But you still insist she either didn't say them or didn't really mean what they (she) said. Amalgamation is one of them. Are you implying that she didn't teach that man and animals couldn't or didn't breed? Or is this what Ellen and the SDA's want us to believe? Maybe you might want to read what a former 33 year SDA member has to say.
http://www.isitso.org/guide/sdaamalg.html

Vic, this is 'old' false misunderstood Baptist news! It has been around about as long as when America came upon the mayflower scene. Why have only Babtist's accepted it as you teach it? Even the USA banking system has ALWAYS had 'ernest' money as an down payment following on with A CLOSING TIME!

Many of my beliefs have little to do with Baptist teaching. I do a lot independant studying on my own. And I am pretty sure that Baptists are not the only ones who accept many of the things I believe. I do not 'teach' anything.

I guess my biggest problem (other that some off the wall doctrines) with the SDA is this...they want us to believe one thing, while they really teach another. This is a characteristic of many fringe Christian denominations. Or 'cults as some may call them. (Mormons, JW's, SDA, etc.)

 

[John the Baptist]

But this E.G.W. person has written.. "At the time of her death her literary productions consister of well over 100,000 pages; 24 books in written circulsation; 4,600 periodical articles in journals of the church: 200 or more out-of-print tracts and pamplets; 6,000 typewritten manuscrips documents consisting of letters and general manuscrips, aggregating approximately 40,000 typewritten pages; 20000 handwritten letters and documents and diaries, journals, et cetera, when copied comprising 20,000 typewritten pages." See Seventh-day Adventist ENCYCLOPEDIA Vol. 10 pg.1413 ... but she cannot be trusted because of a word which might be left out? Is the Master's Word free from human error? Hardly!

And all this means what? That she was prolific? Well that hardly accounts for anything. Jesus wrote nothing, that is nothing that was recorded. Sure, it is said that He wrote twice in the dirt with a stick, but we have no idea what it was He wrote. Yet, His words as recorded by His followers IS Gospel. You can not say the writings of Ellen are even equal or comparable to the Bible.

John, you pointed out above that she retracted some of her teachings for Truth in her later writings. That is hardly the mark of a true prophet. I can't even count on one finger the number of Bible prophets that had to correct their prophecies. They got it right the first time through Divine inspiration. If Ellen was truely God-inspired, she would have gotten them right the first time too.

We have given you plenty of Ellen G. White quotes, with page numbers as you requested. But you still insist she either didn't say them or didn't really mean what they (she) said. Amalgamation is one of them. Are you implying that she didn't teach that man and animals couldn't or didn't breed? Or is this what Ellen and the SDA's want us to believe? Maybe you might want to read what a former 33 year SDA member has to say.
http://www.isitso.org/guide/sdaamalg.html

[quote:624c7]Vic, this is 'old' false misunderstood Baptist news! It has been around about as long as when America came upon the mayflower scene. Why have only Babtist's accepted it as you teach it? Even the USA banking system has ALWAYS had 'ernest' money as an down payment following on with A CLOSING TIME!

Many of my beliefs have little to do with Baptist teaching. I do a lot independant studying on my own. And I am pretty sure that Baptists are not the only ones who accept many of the things I believe. I do not 'teach' anything.

I guess my biggest problem (other that some off the wall doctrines) with the SDA is this...they want us to believe one thing, while they really teach another. This is a characteristic of many fringe Christian denominations. Or 'cults as some may call them. (Mormons, JW's, SDA, etc.)[/quote:624c7]

*********
John here:
Vic, I do not agree that you do not teach anything! : How blind can one be??? What are you saying about the Bible??? Vic, it has been written, checked & re/checked, with verse numbers, periods, comas, chapter numbers, titles, spelling, and chapters headings, & on & on!!
What [one] addition do you use???

Do you miss my point COMPLETELY?? Unless there was a different motive? (as seen in 2 Cor. 4:2) I am beginning to wonder Vic? You are telling [me] that [my posting remark] was in error, what was wrong with my defending that one thought!

What I am, & was saying is that if you go back over my postings, (all of them) you will find words mis/spelled, left out & even repeated words at times!! But not you huh? Because that would make you a 'cult' poster?????

NOW:
Yet, NEVER will 'anyone' not understand the BOTTOM LINE MESSAGE of my total postings, when 'most' of the messages have been read. Unless a person is a dumb dumb, or OTHER MOTIVES are there? :fadein:

Case in point: Back in 1844 therebouts, there was & still is a 7th day Church of God that rejected E.G. White's writtings. They number 100.000
in membership compared to Adventist membership of over 11.000.000.
(these are not total up to date numbers-so don't call me a false teacher, ok. :wink: )

Ask yourself:
If E.G. White was a 'messenger' sent of God, would she not know & have recorded Adventist's ENDING APOSTASY? Now, if so, would she still at that point of time be popular?? THINK! At first her [messages] caused hudge numbers to leave. (the whole of the 'now' 7th day church of God for one) All the rest 'mostly' accepted 'some' of God work. (you do believe in the SPIRITS gifts, right?) And as time goes on, what happened in all church denominations? See again the Eccl. verses! Even in the FIRST CHURCH two 'liars' were killed by the Spirit of God. Acts 5.

But we are considering just Adventism & the Messages given to E.G.W.
In these messages there are [seen] Adventism from start to FINISH! Now, I ask you again, would Adventism of today want to keep these 'messages' about their OPEN APOSTASY in their memberships thinking??

Again: The reason Armstrong's Church of God split was no differant than that of Adventism's split! There was Hatred for Truth, INSIDE WORK from someone beside Christ! See Rev. 3:9's Broadway & Narrow Path dropoffs!!

Now, for the REAL HATRED of the ex/adventist message! All ex/3 angel messages of Rev. 14:6-10 is an Yoked in membership Denomination! and the now synagogue of Rev. 3:9, with the re/cruifing of Christ & putting Him to an open shame along with [HIS] 3 angels message! Heb. 6:6's. Are these ones any better than Babylon? HARDLY! See Luke 12:47-48.

You see Vic, it has [NOTHING] to do with E.G. White! But EVERYTHING TO DO WITH THE MASTER'S TRUTH THAT sATAN'S BROADWAY ONES HATE!
NO? Well, lets just close out with this 'Truth' then, and note that it was written years ago, and is it Truth for today or not??? And will one get a two view reply back? : Surely! Now, which ones are right though?

"I saw that since Jesus had left the Holy place of the heavenly sanctuary, and had entered within the second vail, the [churches were left as were the Jews,] and they have been filling up with [every unclean and hateful bird.] I saw great iniquity and vileness [in the churches; yet they profess to be christians.]" Spiritual Gifts 1-2 pg. 190 in part & with my emphasis.

One last thought Vic:
Just as surely as Paul did not make shipwreck of his work when the Gospel DID GO to the ENDS of the World as it is stated and 'inspired' in Rom. 10:18, because of Christ INSPIRED TRUTH of Matt. 24:14 that it would, so to Vic, do we NEED TO BELIEVE THE ECCL. VERSES of chapter 1:9-10 & chapter 3:15! Each time of Christ's day, 1844, and in our day, we see a Matt. 25 [Closed Door] with Christ's [OWN] being called OUT! There is NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN HE STATES! John 10:16, Eph. 4:5 & Rev. 18:4!! Each time period there was a special 'showers' of 'refreshing' time Truth! Joel & Acts 2 & see Peter's Truth again stated in Acts 3:19! To reject in this in/lightened period is fatal!

---John

PS: Just a last question Vic. When there is the Sunday enforcement law put into force, what side do we find you supporting even now??? See Hosea 4:6. I wonder which 'inspired' writter had it right in what some call the four Gospels, as they [all] project the same truth of Christ's death burial & resurection somewhat differently! Were they getting true inspiration from God?

 

[evanman]

Jesus had NO older brothers, He was the firstborn!

The main sin of men before the flood was not amalgamating animals and humans.

We may find spelling mistakes, mistakes of grammar, not a problem. But to make such errors concerning the Inspired Word of god--that is intolerable--especially when she states quite plainly that everything she wrote was God's Word through her!

 

[John the Baptist]

Jesus had NO older brothers, He was the firstborn!

The main sin of men before the flood was not amalgamating animals and humans.

We may find spelling mistakes, mistakes of grammar, not a problem. But to make such errors concerning the Inspired Word of god--that is intolerable--especially when she states quite plainly that everything she wrote was God's Word through her!

*******
Some people have a hard time reading right. But then, even the Word 'God' should be capitalised as far as most think, anything else IS intolerable! :robot: Unless it is another of Gen. 4:7's desiree's. : It seems that I have run into 'your work' over on a locked thread? Perhaps this thread is the next to go?

Regardless: Christ had half brothers.

---John

 

[John the Baptist]

Re: Errors of a cult (1) NAW!! 1844 relived!

Errors of the SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISM cult

*******
John here:
Do you know what a 'cult' is? It appears that you do not. Catholicism is a true CULT! With both one voice over scripture & the worship of Christ Voided out as first place in the remission of sins. See Acts 4:12 & 1 Tim. 2:5.

Pope John Paul ... on Tuesday told Roman Catholics to seek forgiveness through the church and not directly from God. In a major document on the need for confession of sin, the pontiff laid down guidlines for the world's nearly 800 million Roman Catholics on the purpose of confessing sins to priests...The requirement for confessing sin through priests is one of the fundamental principles of Roman Catholicism."
--The Associated Press December 11, 1984

And next come her 'little Roman cult' Daughter's of Rev. 17:5.
What is new God asks?? NOTHING! See Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15

"THIS IS THE CATHOLIC PRINCIPLE, THAT THE CHURCH CANNOT ERR IN FAITH" --The Catholic World, pgs. 422, 423.

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, BUT HE IS JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF, hidden under veil of flesh."

And the Daughters?
"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church." --Reported in the New Jersey News March 18, 1903--

One might pray over Christs Words of Mark 7:7 if there is any conscience to be reached left!

---John

 

[John the Baptist]

Whoa there partner! I thought my posts were straight up. YOU asked me to give you page numbers concerning my Ellen G. White quotes. I did that and more. I also gave you Biblical references that prove she contradicted the Bible. Did you not see them?

(removed for interesting double talk how one judges 'their' concept of what contradictions are)

***
John here:
What standard are we usng to through out truth with? The Bible clearly has 'erring ones' being used!! If one will believe it :robot:!

Matt. 9:28 States: "And when He was come to the other side into the country of Gergesenes, there met Him [two] possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs,.." read on to verse 32! (Unclean Swine)

Mark 5:1-2 states the same occasion, yet differntly! Notice verse 2, .. ".. immediately there met [a man] with an unclean spirit,.." Surely, read verses 1-6 Notive verse 6 uses 'he' & not they.

Now, which is not TRUTH by your testing of E.G. White's seemingly few conterdictions? Come on now and answer the question that you seem to 'block' out of your responce.

One has to go! Which one?? Over in Luke the reporting is again found in chapter 8:26-30. Here 'inspiration' uses even different [WORDS]!
"..a certain man' & 'he was bound with..'

I wonder how long a person who is a Christian [in the time of 'refreshing'] (Acts 3:19) can continue on being Christian, when there is no 'retraction' of error seen? (Me or you, see Acts 5 Ananias and wife) Also Matt. 25 'Closed Door'.

-----------

Now for another remark by another poster, that Christ did not have brothers.
It seems that this statement from E.G.W. that He had brothers was reason to toss her out as a false prophet as was just done to one of the three 'Gospels' writters above, perhaps?

In Matt. 13:54-58 we see Christ coming to His [own] country. And He taught in the [home] church. And what He says & does tell's all that He is Who & What He says that He IS!
Who believes Him?? And what questions do these [non/believing] ones ask?

"Is this not [the carpenter's son]? is not His [mother] called Mary? [and]HIS BRETHERN, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

It seems that the 'Inspiration' given to Matt. can call Christ's [half brothers, brothers,] and that Matthew is not called a 'cult' false teacher as is E.G.White by some. This type of theology is seen by me as what Paul is talking about in 2 Cor. 4:2 at best! :

One might do well to study Rom. 8:14. (regardless of me or you)

---John

 

[John the Baptist]

--Throwing out bathwater with the baby in it!--

Still there are a 'few' whom God can find still inside all of 'mans foolishness'. (see Rev. 18:4) Notice this question below & a remark of an old Spirit of Prophecy statement below that about today. The remark comes from another forum, and the thought from Adventist material about [themselves], by E.G. White's Volum 5 pg. 210-11's material.

First question from another forum:
Pastor N.B, if I understand you correctly, you believe currently God is calling out a people from all denominations of mainstream Christianity as well as from the unbelieving, and these ones who come out will form this one true denomination, and only they will be saved.

Their doctrine will be the same as that of 7th Day Adventism, and these people in this one true denomination will obey the commandments of God perfectly and have perfected character. Because of their perfected character and pure 7th Day Adventist doctrine, God will allow them and only them into eternal life.

You appear to consider 7th Day Adventism to have departed from the Lord as Israel in the old testament did, so that though you believe their doctrine to be correct, they are not the called out, the remnant, the elect, whatever you wish to call them.

Am I understanding this right?
----

Testimony for the Adventist Church quote: (in part only & my added emphasis)
----
"Here we see that the ---the Lord's sanctuary---was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of spiritual interests of the people had betrayed their trust. ... (see Eze. 9 & 1 Peter 4:17 & Luke 12:47-48)

He is too merciful to visit His people in judgement. Thus "Peace and safety" is the cry from men who [will never again] lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their trangression and the house of Jacob their sins,These doumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. ... (see Isa. 59:1 & Isa. 59:2)

The abomination for which the faithful ones were sighing and crying were all that could be discerned by finite eyes, but by far the worst sins, those which provoked the jealousy of the pure and holy God, were unrevealed."
(LOOK AROUND YOU TODAY & THINK 'ONLY' OF WHAT YOU DO SEE : !)

---John

 

[John the Baptist]

Interesting comment--however we should go back into the history of seventh day adventism, Ellen G. White and the imposition of unscriptural rules on people!

********
That message sounds like the PROTESTANTS of today, huh? '[WE] should go..' Well, what are you & the 'WE' ones waiting for???? And are you & the we ones 'in' this Eze. 37 DRY BONES & DEAD class, of 'inspiration'? Or are you seen as now UNITED as in Rev. 17:5?

Then comes the 'CULT' bible study remark of Adventism being a cult? :wink: See Matt. 10:25 & then verse 20! :fadein:

So? you say that we should go back into the history of seventh day adventism, Elen G. White and the imposition of unscriptual rules on people!

What are you waiting for? :roll:

Perhaps the silence speaks for itself? After just the last 'few' years it does not take much bible study to see that the [documented] protestant denominations + Romes filth, are no better than [your] judgement of Adventism, & E.G.W's. assesment? See Isa. 59:1-2. God WILL NOT HEAR YOU! And Joshua 7:12's last part of the verse states that not only will He not HEAR YOU, but that HE WILL NOT BE INSIDE YOU ANYMORE, [UNLESS].."!! PONDER REV. 3:9 :robot: .

By the way, as a side issue thread thought, let me say that you are now in the time of the 'escalating' of Jacobs trouble. ALL HELL IS NOW BREAKING LOOSE! (so to speak) : Yet, it seems that the 'we' (as your unity suggests)
have not a clue as to why God is permitting this. :

"And the Lord said, [MY SPIRIT SHALL NOT ALWAYS *STRIVE* WITH MAN, ..." Gen. 6:3 (see Luke 12:47 & John 9:41)

---John

**************
Hi again :fadein:,
I never did hear what the definition of what a cult was?? But it must be by far the worse than the CAPS of Rev. 17:5's Mother & Daughters, huh?

I thought that you might to like to know that you folk have much company? so I picked this belowe one up from another forum to post here.

-------- wrote:
I think there is plenty of information on that website. There is also plenty of opportunity to look up the information and compare it against scripture to prove that Ellen G. White was a false prophet.


**************
Pastor N.B. here:
Well then, unless you are timid or just do not believe in something other than he said she said stuff... (or worse, see 2 Cor. 4:2 ) why not pick out just [one or two] of the plenty of information & then give the scripture that you are convinced of that proves that E.G. White was a false prophet?

Seems to me that that is a Christian principle?

By the way, I am not Adventist. Nor, will I ever be a Seventh-day Adventist. But, to be perfectly honest [with myself], I have found hardly a thought in White's work that goes against [my Master's Words]! (and I have read much of it) I do agree as Peter states in 2 Peter 3:15-17 about Pauls work where he states.. 'in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are [unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also other scripture..]'

Also, I do not understand her work to be the bible?? But if one threw out her work because of ex/adventist apostates, (christian's??? see Gen. 49:16-17, and in this case this person is dead even) what on earth would one do with 'inspired' writer's of the Word of God itself?? For starters: there are four of what some call Gospels, and ALL ARE WRITTEN DIFFERENTLY!

---Pastor N.B. (John)
_________________
"I CAN DO ALL THINGS THROUGHT CHRIST WHICH STRENGTHENETH ME" Phil. 4:13

"MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR THEE, FOR MY STRENGTH IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS" 2 Cor. 12:9

I believe His Word! Pastor N.B.

 

[Featherbop]

The seventh day adventist is not a cult. There could small cults of any church denomanation that are, but as a whole the SDA church and most other churches are not. Ellen G white, I don't know much about her, and belief in her writings is not required to be SDA.

I share many beliefs with the SDA church, but am not in attendance in any church currently.

To say the SDA chucrh is a cult or cultish is ignorant. People taught or heard something bad about them or about a SDA person with false writings, which the person in question, Ellen G white is accused of in this thread.

A definition of cult used by some christians and by myself sometimes is: A group that teaches salvation by works. or something to that effect.

However the SDA does not teach this, so by that definition, they are not a cult. People of ignorance just label churches that they don't like/disagree with/hate as cults to make them look bad.

Anyway, when I did attend some SDA churches a few years ago, they were in no way cultish. It was about 4-5 in all that I went to. They did not teach salvation by works and deeds. They did not pressure people to become members, they had no evil rituals, or ceremonys. They encoraged people to look to the Bible for themselves and to take noone's word for it.

A cult is not like this.

But as for real cults, most churches are not, but the catholic church is a cult.

And the baptist chuch(ugh) is the most popular cult where I live.

______

But most cults are not churches, they are mostly gang type orginizations.

They so far are the most Biblicaly accurate churches, not the only one, but closest.

______

But this thread seems to be about ellen white anyway not the SDA church.

 

[evanman]

To impose other rules on people that are not in scritpure makes a group a Cult!

Jesus christ was not a vegetarian, why does Ellen G White impose vegetarianism on others?

 

[Featherbop]

evanman, you're just looking for a reason to call the SDA a cult. I could easily find more reasons that the baptist churches are a cult. Stop being ignorant.

why does Ellen G White impose vegetarianism on others?

She dead now, she can't impose, if you mean why does she "impose" that on people in her writings, probably because its a very healthy lifestyle.

To impose other rules on people that are not in scripture makes a group a cult!

By your logic, every church is/could be a cult.

Evanman, One does not have to agree with ellen white to be a SDA. Are you trying to attack ellen, or the SDA church? Or both.

And evanman, you might want to lay off all the exclamation points. It makes you look like a fanatic.

 

[evanman]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I really like using exclamation marks!

Ellen G White imposed vegetarianism, NOT because it was a "Healthy Lifestyle" but because she considered that eating flesh was a sin!

The SDA, in supporting this doctrine, is committing the same error.

Ro 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Ro 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[John the Baptist]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I really like using exclamation marks!

Ellen G White imposed vegetarianism, NOT because it was a "Healthy Lifestyle" but because she considered that eating flesh was a sin!

The SDA, in supporting this doctrine, is committing the same error.

Ro 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Ro 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Ro 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

**********
Hay, you are just a few words in space! (me too!)
But you are becoming clearer all of the time as your missives bring more to view.

What does Christ mean when He states that in the LAST days 'knowledge will be increased'? Are not the LAST DAYS finding His people WITH THE WORD ALREADY HERE? (All 66 Bks.)

Well if I am living in these last days? What am I going to do with Hosea 4:6??? (not you, but me? :fadein: )

By the way, you are starting to grow on me, you seem like one of the fine kid's from Heb. 5! I like you. We ALL need to crawl before we can walk!
But even kids realize that they ARE KILLING THEMSELVES by their lifestyles! :

---John