Esau, did God really hate the baby Esau?

[Dorothy Mae]

(It must have been someone else, as I have not been on this thread...but thanks for thinking of me)

It was Edward.

 

[Edward]

Ah, land and riches are not considered "good things" in the Kingdom of God. They actually are matters Jesus said present many from even becoming believers. God personally gave Esau land for him and his descendants. God does not do this for those he despises or hates.

I can agree with you that those things may not be called good things in the Kingdom of God. But Esau and all his pals and family were living on earth at the time in the natutal realm. And here, we do consider that a good thing!

Most parents do not continue to feed, hours and clothe their grown sons and their families as it does harm if not impose a burden. And God gave Esau what was essentially a Lexus, a great deal of land.

You are correct. In today's world we like to get em to move out on their 18th biirthay, lol. Many times at the least. So, yes I can see your analogy of God gave him a Lexus. DO I know why God did that? Not really but I have to assume that God had a good reason for doing what He did. We might have to wait until our future blooms to get filled in on little details.

I just do not go beyond the text and attribute decisions and attitudes to know that no one who walked with Him attributed to Him.

That's odd. All of ehich I speak are in the scriptures. I can explain a lot of it for you, but I can't understand it for you.

 

[Edward]

I never suggested God despised Esau .
Esau despised his birthright . Did that please God ?

I think that was me who suggested that. Now I was trying to show that God did not hate Esau but He was something less than hate towards Esau but it wasn't about being pleased with Esau because He obviously was not.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I can agree with you that those things may not be called good things in the Kingdom of God. But Esau and all his pals and family were living on earth at the time in the natutal realm. And here, we do consider that a good thing!

yes I agree. But land God doesn’t give to those he hates. He bless the unbelievers as you rightly said. But the few we know he gave land to were not hated.

You are correct. In today's world we like to get em to move out on their 18th biirthay, lol. Many times at the least. So, yes I can see your analogy of God gave him a Lexus. DO I know why God did that? Not really but I have to assume that God had a good reason for doing what He did. We might have to wait until our future blooms to get filled in on little details.

For me the obvious is he was honoring Esau and spoke to Esau and loved him. Why would God insist on protecting the descendants of Esau otherwise? Makes sense to me.

That's odd. All of ehich I speak are in the scriptures. I can explain a lot of it for you, but I can't understand it for you.

Perhaps Esau changed and so God changed towards him.

 

[hawkman]

I read it. It doesn’t paint God in a good light though. The OT also says God hates sin. Hard to think of the reason as Him feeling rejected. I think the solution enlightened by the scriptures elsewhere is better. God hated the evil offspring but loved the man Esau and personally gave Him land.

God hates sin . When sin happens it is us (God's creation) that commits the sin . When we commit sin we are not following God as we should and in a sense we are rejecting him . Can you see how this would make God feel rejected ?
After all the blessings bestowed on us we choose to sin .

Well, what exactly did he think he was buying? I don’t think they thought they could buy the promises of God. I assume it was the material inheritance. What would material inheritance have helped if he does if hunger? So it fits into the story.

Why are we told the story of Jacob's attempt to buy the birthright when it is not possible to do so ? Maybe God wants us to understand the frame of mind both Jacob and Esau were in . What do you think Dorothy Mae ?

My apologies. That was @Hopeful.

No problem .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God hates sin . When sin happens it is us (God's creation) that commits the sin . When we commit sin we are not following God as we should and in a sense we are rejecting him . Can you see how this would make God feel rejected ?

No, He doesn’t feel rejected at all. He never said he hates sin because He wants to spare Himself unpleasant feelings. That’s pretty egoistic. “Please don’t sin because I don’t want to feel rejected.” He isn’t concerned about protecting his feelings.

After all the blessings bestowed on us we choose to sin .

Why are we told the story of Jacob's attempt to buy the birthright when it is not possible to do so ?

The blessings of God are not a birthright. The inheritance of your father is.

Maybe God wants us to understand the frame of mind both Jacob and Esau were in . What do you think Dorothy Mae ?

No problem .

In those cultures the oldest son inherits the riches. That’s a right solely by birth order. I think that’s it. Doesn’t it make sense?

 

[hawkman]

I think that was me who suggested that. Now I was trying to show that God did not hate Esau but He was something less than hate towards Esau but it wasn't about being pleased with Esau because He obviously was not.

Exactly "something less than hate " not hate as we use it today in our language. Go back and read the link in post #2 if you have not. Here is another link about the Hebrew word "sane" that was translated to hate .How can we reconcile a God who says He IS love when He also says He hated someone?

 

[hawkman]

No, He doesn’t feel rejected at all. He never said he hates sin because He wants to spare Himself unpleasant feelings. That’s pretty egoistic. “Please don’t sin because I don’t want to feel rejected.” He isn’t concerned about protecting his feelings.

We are God's children . With that thought in mind here is what I am going to say. When I give my children advice with me knowing it is the right thing to do and they do not follow my advice I feel rejected.

 

[Edward]

yes I agree. But land God doesn’t give to those he hates. He bless the unbelievers as you rightly said. But the few we know he gave land to were not hated.

Exactly. God did not hate Esau. Hate was a bad term to use for that translation.

For me the obvious is he was honoring Esau and spoke to Esau and loved him. Why would God insist on protecting the descendants of Esau otherwise? Makes sense to me.

That does make sense.

Perhaps Esau changed and so God changed towards him.

That's the way it happens, lol. God said, draw close to me and I will draw close to you. As Esau got older, it's not hard to imagine him skipping a hunting trip or two. Maybe he started kicking back at home and perhaps reading the scriptures?!

 

[Edward]

No, He doesn’t feel rejected at all. He never said he hates sin because He wants to spare Himself unpleasant feelings. That’s pretty egoistic. “Please don’t sin because I don’t want to feel rejected.” He isn’t concerned about protecting his feelings.

I think I must disagree here because of

Exodus 34:14
14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:.../

In this light, I would tend to think that God does feel rejection. Unless I missed the meaning of that verse, God takes that very seriously.

 

[Edward]

Exactly "something less than hate " not hate as we use it today in our language. Go back and read the link in post #2 if you have not. Here is another link about the Hebrew word "sane" that was translated to hate .How can we reconcile a God who says He IS love when He also says He hated someone?

Yeah! That's what I was saying. Esau did not cooperate with God's plan for his life.

"· · Jacob I loved; Esau I hated - Mal. 1:2; Romans 9:13 Esau is the only person that God said He hated. The ancient Hebrew suggests that Esau’s rejection of His prized birthright for some stew that hurt God’s heart so deeply that He wanted to stay away from him. God had not rejected Esau, rather Esau rejected God’s plan. In this context, this verse shows God’s broken heart rather than His anger at disobedience..."/

That's easy to understand. I think it is prolly on the level of...a Bride cheats on her newlywed Husband. A lot of pain.

Why do you think God gave mankind the Marraige Covenant? To introduce us to that pain and bringing us to the understanding of why loyalty is of utmost importance. Marriage on earth is a dry run for Marriage with Christ. Taches us how to act, what not to do! And why! (It brings pain. If we're created in God's image and we can feel pain, why would God be different? Not. God does feel pain.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think I must disagree here because of

Exodus 34:14
14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:.../

In this light, I would tend to think that God does feel rejection. Unless I missed the meaning of that verse, God takes that very seriously.

You can disagree but no one who wrote scripture would agree. Jealous is not rejection. They just aren’t.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Edward, you view makes God look petty as though His biggest concern is not being rejected because His ego can’t take it. This just isn’t his motive.

 

[Hopeful]

Wouldn’t have helped as I was referring someone not in the arrows.

LOL...It's always something...right?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think I must disagree here because of

Exodus 34:14
14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:.../

In this light, I would tend to think that God does feel rejection. Unless I missed the meaning of that verse, God takes that very seriously.

You are missing the meaning. Jealous means Gods wants his own to remain faithful in our devotion for OUR sake, not His. Unfaithful means pain and suffering for us. The opposite of a spouse who could never be jealous is one who doesn’t love or even care about the relationship.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We are God's children . With that thought in mind here is what I am going to say. When I give my children advice with me knowing it is the right thing to do and they do not follow my advice I feel rejected.

Then you have a personal stake in the matter or some ego involved. This is pretty common.

When love is pure we want the best for the beloved whether it benefits us (proud of advise being honored) or not. God is sorry we don’t follow his directives because we will suffer, not Him.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

LOL...It's always something...right?

no

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yeah! That's what I was saying. Esau did not cooperate with God's plan for his life.

"· · Jacob I loved; Esau I hated - Mal. 1:2; Romans 9:13 Esau is the only person that God said He hated. The ancient Hebrew suggests that Esau’s rejection of His prized birthright for some stew that hurt God’s heart so deeply that He wanted to stay away from him. God had not rejected Esau, rather Esau rejected God’s plan. In this context, this verse shows God’s broken heart rather than His anger at disobedience..."/

That's easy to understand. I think it is prolly on the level of...a Bride cheats on her newlywed Husband. A lot of pain.

Why do you think God gave mankind the Marraige Covenant? To introduce us to that pain and bringing us to the understanding of why loyalty is of utmost importance. Marriage on earth is a dry run for Marriage with Christ. Taches us how to act, what not to do! And why! (It brings pain. If we're created in God's image and we can feel pain, why would God be different? Not. God does feel pain.

It’s just not how God operates. He doesn’t resent being rejected, He feels the loss of relationship. David mourned the loss of his son, Absalom, he didn’t feel anger at being rejected. That’s more the heart of God.

Edward, I care about this because if you accuse God of petty ego tantrums or feeling sorry for Himself when the truth is He has no self esteem needs or needs at all but loves, you will not be given understanding from Him.

Those who come to God must believe that He is good (because it’s the truth.)

Your view of Him is not reflecting the knowledge that God is good and He withholds understanding from those who do not assume he is good. He still loves them, make no mistake. I’m caring for your walk with Him.

 

[Edward]

@Edward, I care about this because if you accuse God of petty ego tantrums or feeling sorry for Himself when the truth is He has no self esteem needs or needs at all but loves, you will not be given understanding from Him.

Those who come to God must believe that He is good (because it’s the truth.)

Your view of Him is not reflecting the knowledge that God is good and He withholds understanding from those who do not assume he is good. He still loves them, make no mistake. I’m caring for your walk with Him.

You sure are putting a lot of words into my mouth that I did not say. I guess I said something you didn't like.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You sure are putting a lot of words into my mouth that I did not say. I guess I said something you didn't like.

You:

“Esau is the only person that God said He hated. The ancient Hebrew suggests that Esau’s rejection of His prized birthright for some stew that hurt God’s heart so deeply that He wanted to stay away from him. God had not rejected Esau, rather Esau rejected God’s plan. In this context, this verse shows God’s broken heart rather than His anger at disobedience..."/

You said God hated the baby Esau. He didn’t. You saw God was hurt because didn’t prize his birthright. He wasn’t. You said he was so hurt God “wanted to stay away.” Gods heart was broken.

Not a single point is the the Bible. It would be better to admit you are making up stuff.