Essential Doctrines

[mcgyver]

In the short time that I've been here, I've seen denial of the Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, etc., from those who claim the title "Christian".

So then, the question is: "Are there essential doctrines that one must adhere to in order to be a Christian, and if so, what are they?"

Curious as to what folks think.

 

[Hitch]

Great question Mac.

Below is the Apostles Creed, a pretty fair summation of essentials.

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;
He descended into hell. [See Calvin]
The third day He arose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.
Amen.

Historic Church Documents at Reformed.org

 

[mcgyver]

Thanks Hitch,

I think that along with the Nicene Creed we are indeed given certain essential doctrines of the Christian faith.

Let me ask some general questions then. Is it essential to: Believe the virgin birth? The deity of Christ? The physical resurrection?

Why or why not?

 

[Pizzaguy]

In the short time that I've been here, I've seen denial of the Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, etc., from those who claim the title "Christian".

It's disturbing, I know. :o

 

[mcgyver]

It's disturbing, I know. :o

Yessir...indeed it is....

 

[Hitch]

Thanks Hitch,

I think that along with the Nicene Creed we are indeed given certain essential doctrines of the Christian faith.

Let me ask some general questions then. Is it essential to: Believe the virgin birth? The deity of Christ? The physical resurrection?

Why or why not?

Because is it required to believe on Christ and that God sent him. The three items you posted can be said to make an apex on which rests the voracity of all NT scripture.

If not virgin born Jesus is an impostor and not the one God sent

If not deity than he indeed 'robbed' God claiming to be one (equal) with Him

If not raised from the dead, them all of the above apply and we are left without a High Priest and then by extension without an acceptable sacrifice.

 

[WIP]

Not believing pretty much undermines our faith?

 

[Guap]

Thanks Hitch,

I think that along with the Nicene Creed we are indeed given certain essential doctrines of the Christian faith.

Let me ask some general questions then. Is it essential to: Believe the virgin birth? The deity of Christ? The physical resurrection?

Why or why not?

The apostles creed above is different from the Nicene Creed. The Nicene Creed is more specific about the deity of Christ. I think that is a more accurate reflection of historical Christianity. but I think there are plenty of Scriptures that speak of the diety of Christ.

As for the Resurrection that is also included the creed, but I guess 1 Cor 15 pretty much addresses that issue.

As for the Virgin birth, it is also included in the creed, but I know there are many theologians who would suggest this could be taken out. The idea of a virgin and young unmarried woman are both contained in ancient words for 'virgin', so the prophecy and fulfilment biblically could be talking of an unmarried young lady.

I'm not sure why whether or not Mary was a virgin has anything to do with Jesus being an imposter. How are the two related?

 

[D4Christ]

I suppose I am one of the ones you've seen denying stuff because I have openly stated I am a nontrinitarian....and yes I hold dearly to the title of Christian.

So what is necessary to believe? Every Word in the scriptures. These are some of my essential beliefs below...those things which I think it necessary to believe in order to call oneself a Christian.

I believe that the Father sent His Son as a mediator and High Priest on our behalf.

I believe Yahushua became a man to suffer and die for us.

I believe that the Father is God.

I believe that Son is God (Hebrews 1: 3,8,9)

I believe that the Father gave the Son all authority.

I believe that when the Son conquers death he will hand this authority back over to His Father.

I believe that the Father has no beginnning nor end.

I believe that the Father formed (created) His Son first.

I believe that the Son is the firstborn of all creation.

I believe He rose and is now with His Father in heaven.

I believe that the HS was sent as an advocate in the Son's absence on earth and he only speaks what he hears from the son.

Likewise the Son only speaks what he hears from his Father.

I believe the Father has a throne in heaven.

I believe the Son has a throne in heaven.

I believe the Son has the Father's name.

I believe the HS comes in the Son's name.

I believe that those who deny the Father also deny the Son.

I believe that Mary was a virgin when the seed for Christ was placed in her.

I believe that the Son will return.

I can't see how the denial of trinity makes me less of a Christian that someone who believes in trinity.

Blessings,

Dee

 

[mcgyver]

Thank you Dee, for your response.

I'm a tad confused by what you stated here.

You said:

I believe that the Father is God.

I believe that Son is God (Hebrews 1: 3,8,9)

So far, so good...but this is where I lose the train so to speak:

I believe that the Father formed (created) His Son first.

So then, Jesus is a created being? Or did I miss something in what you were saying?

 

[Hitch]

Thank you Dee, for your response.

I'm a tad confused by what you stated here.

You said:

So far, so good...but this is where I lose the train so to speak:

So then, Jesus is a created being? Or did I miss something in what you were saying?

The notion that Jesus is part of the creation is a serious error.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

In the short time that I've been here, I've seen denial of the Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, etc., from those who claim the title "Christian".

So then, the question is: "Are there essential doctrines that one must adhere to in order to be a Christian, and if so, what are they?"

Curious as to what folks think.

What is meant by the title of "christian"? What is a christian defined as? If one defines christian in terms of prevailing religious dogma loosely based on the scriptural account then I guess one could set the parameters based on what that individual believes or practices.

From what one reads in scripture, and I know this will sound "pentecostal", but what we see in the texts is that the saints (christians) were sealed and were the possession of and possessors of the holy breath of God, the Anointed One's spirit.
These sealed individuals believed that the man, Jesus of Nazareth was the long awaited Anointed One and Son of God who lived a perfect life, died for the sins of the world, and was raised from the dead before going to God to receive a kingdom. They expected this King Jesus to return for them within their lifetimes so that the could then have a place in Jesus' kingdom which was to stand for ages of ages that death/mortality would have no power over.

 

[D4Christ]

Thank you Dee, for your response.

I'm a tad confused by what you stated here.

You said:

I believe that the Father is God.

I believe that Son is God (Hebrews 1: 3,8,9)

So far, so good...but this is where I lose the train so to speak:

I believe that the Father formed (created) His Son first.

So then, Jesus is a created being? Or did I miss something in what you were saying?

I know I need to clarify. When I rejected the concept of Trinity it was because I was beginning to see more clearly the relationship between Father and Son as separate entities. To say the Son is the "only begotten" is a powerful statement for the Father to use. Because to 'begot' something indicates to give birth to or to sire something. I believe that the only being that ever came directly from the Father is the Son. As a result, the Son as stated in Hebrews, shares the same essential nature and essence as the Father. In its most elementary form this is no different than the human, father-son relationship. Human fathers sire their children. Their children share the same nature as its parent...that of human. Though father and son are both human and the son could in essence do what the father does, the son gives deference to the father and is not seen as equal to the father. The son takes what authority his father allows him to take.

Christ says continuously that he is not greater than his Father and only does what he is told to do. We are told in scriptures that there is one God and one mediator, that is Christ. Obviously Christ can perform the creative acts of his Father...he is in essence God. But scriptures repeatedly tell us that he is the Son whose role is that of Mediator and High Priest. Christ who has all authority readily acknowledges he only has this power because his Father gave it to him and that when he completes his tasks he will give this power (complete authority) back to His Father.

So yes, I belive the scriptures...the Father begot the Son. I believe that the Son was the firstborn of all creation and that the Son was born before the Father created anything else that was made. Therefore, in the beginning (the beginning of our creation) the Word (Christ) was there and he was with God (his Father) and is God (God can only begot God, humans can only begot humans, fish only begot fish, etc.). He already existed before the earth came into existence and creation was created through him.

Ok here is more proof.

Proverbs 8

22 “The Lord [YHWH #H3068]formed me from the beginning,
before he created anything else.
23 I was appointed in ages past,
at the very first, before the earth began.
24 I was born before the oceans were created,
before the springs bubbled forth their waters.
25 Before the mountains were formed,
before the hills, I was born—
26 before he had made the earth and fields
and the first handfuls of soil.
27 I was there when he established the heavens,
when he drew the horizon on the oceans.
28 I was there when he set the clouds above,
when he established springs deep in the earth.
29 I was there when he set the limits of the seas,
so they would not spread beyond their boundaries.
And when he marked off the earth’s foundations,
30 I was the architect at his side.
I was his constant delight,
rejoicing always in his presence.
31 And how happy I was with the world he created;
how I rejoiced with the human family!
32 “And so, my children, listen to me,
for all who follow my ways are joyful.
33 Listen to my instruction and be wise.
Don’t ignore it.
34 Joyful are those who listen to me,
watching for me daily at my gates,
waiting for me outside my home!
35 For whoever finds me finds life
and receives favor from the Lord [YHWH]
36 But those who miss me injure themselves.
All who hate me love death.â€

The Son existed in the beginning of our creation with the Father. He was the first and saw creation made. He was with His Father as the earth and everything on it took form. The scriptures show no such beginnning for the Father. Prior to the beginning of creation, he has always existed, though scriptures don't give us any clue as to what He did. All we know is the beginning of our creation which started at Genesis 1.

Blessings,
Dee

 

[Guap]

To say the Son is the "only begotten" is a powerful statement for the Father to use. Because to 'begot' something indicates to give birth to or to sire something.

Blessings,
Dee

only begotten is only one possible translation of monogenes (or however you want to transliterate the word).
It can also be, only of this kind. It doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with begotting.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

So then, the question is: "Are there essential doctrines that one must adhere to in order to be a Christian, and if so, what are they?"

ACTS 2:
22 .......listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene was a man who was shown to you by God with power, omens, and signs that God performed through him in your midst, as you already know. 23 Yes, you gave this person (who received his advice and his ability to see the future from God) over to the hands of men who were without Law, and you nailed him up. 24 But God resurrected him, freeing him from the cords of death, because it wasn’t possible for [death] to hold him.
25 ‘Then David said this about him:
I‘ve put Jehovah always before me.
And since He is at my right hand,
I will never be shaken.
26 For, in my heart I am cheerful,
And with my tongue I rejoice;
So my body will rest in that hope.
27 You won’t abandon me in the grave,
And You’ll not allow Your loyal one to see corruption.
28 For, the ways of life You have shown me,
And You’ll fill me with joy from Your face.’
29 ‘Men! Brothers! It’s good to speak to you openly about the patriarch David, for he died, was buried, and his tomb is still with us to this day. 30 Yet, he was a Prophet, and he knew that God had sworn an oath to him that He would put someone on his throne who was the fruit of his loins. 31 So, [David] looked into the future and spoke about the resurrection of the Anointed One… that he wouldn’t be abandoned in the grave and that his flesh wouldn’t see corruption.
32 ‘Then this Jesus was resurrected by God, and we are all witnesses to that… 33 he was lifted to God’s right hand, where he received the Holy Breath (which the Father had promised). And he’s the one who has poured out all of this that you’re seeing and hearing.
34 ‘Now, David didn’t go to heaven, but he said:
Jehovah</SPAN> said to my Lord;
Sit down at my right hand
35 Until I set your enemies as a stool for your feet.
36 So, let the entire House of IsraEl know for sure that God made this Jesus whom you impaled the Lord and Anointed One!

I think this explanation given by Peter says it better than anyone of us ever could.

 

[D4Christ]

only begotten is only one possible translation of monogenes (or however you want to transliterate the word).
It can also be, only of this kind. It doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with begotting.

"only begotten": Strong's #G3439

- single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God

Psalm 2:7 (KJV)

7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

"begotten": Strong's #H3205

1) to bear, bring forth, beget, gender, travail
a) (Qal)
1) to bear, bring forth
a) of child birth
b) of distress (simile)
c) of wicked (behaviour)
2) to beget
b) (Niphal) to be born
c) (Piel)
1) to cause or help to bring forth
2) to assist or tend as a midwife
3) midwife (participle)
d) (Pual) to be born

Then there is the matter of Proverbs 8. For those who disagree with me it would be easier for Prov 8 not to exist.....but it does. So how do you explain it?

Blessings,

Dee

 

[handy]

Dee, I don't believe that Proverbs 8 is speaking of the Son...especially since wisdom (the subject of the chapter) is referred to as "she"....

I've seen a lot of different types of interpretations of Proverbs 8...from it being about the Son or used as "proof" that the Holy Spirit is feminine in nature (feminists desperately want a female god)...

The thing is, the passage isn't really a "hidden" one...it comes right out and speaks about what it is about...Godly wisdom...wisdom that can come only from God because God is the One whom establishes wisdom.

That said, I must admit I having trouble determining exactly how your views go against the Trinity? Are you embracing the idea that there are in fact 3 Gods: Father, Son and Spirit? Not One God manifested in Three Persons, but Three separate deities?

BTW, to the OP...Yes, I do believe that believing in the Triune nature of God is essential to being a Christian for if we reject what the Scriptures reveal is truth about God, then we've rejected God and substituted our own ideal instead. The physical resurrection of Christ is also an essential.

Things like the Virgin Birth, the inerrancy of Scriptures...I think eventually all true Christians will come to embrace the truth of these things...but I don't necessarily believe that one must believe them in order to be born-again.

We are told, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved." If one is denying the true nature of Jesus, including His resurrection...then one might be fully immersed in Christian theology and philosophy...but not sealed with the Spirit.

(this isn't meant to be a slap at you, Dee....I truly want to discuss your views...these are just my views according to the OP.)

 

[Elijah674]

In the short time that I've been here, I've seen denial of the Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, etc., from those who claim the title "Christian".

So then, the question is: "Are there essential doctrines that one must adhere to in order to be a Christian, and if so, what are they?"

Curious as to what folks think.

Surely! But God only holds one guilty for that which they know as to Their Doctrines, huh? Rom. 8:14 But the Doctrine of Christ when known, needs quick acceptence John states! 2 John 1:9

--Elijah

 

[dadof10]

I know I need to clarify. When I rejected the concept of Trinity it was because I was beginning to see more clearly the relationship between Father and Son as separate entities. To say the Son is the "only begotten" is a powerful statement for the Father to use. Because to 'begot' something indicates to give birth to or to sire something. I believe that the only being that ever came directly from the Father is the Son. As a result, the Son as stated in Hebrews, shares the same essential nature and essence as the Father. In its most elementary form this is no different than the human, father-son relationship. Human fathers sire their children. Their children share the same nature as its parent...that of human. Though father and son are both human and the son could in essence do what the father does, the son gives deference to the father and is not seen as equal to the father. The son takes what authority his father allows him to take.

Christ says continuously that he is not greater than his Father and only does what he is told to do. We are told in scriptures that there is one God and one mediator, that is Christ. Obviously Christ can perform the creative acts of his Father...he is in essence God. But scriptures repeatedly tell us that he is the Son whose role is that of Mediator and High Priest. Christ who has all authority readily acknowledges he only has this power because his Father gave it to him and that when he completes his tasks he will give this power (complete authority) back to His Father.

So yes, I belive the scriptures...the Father begot the Son. I believe that the Son was the firstborn of all creation and that the Son was born before the Father created anything else that was made. Therefore, in the beginning (the beginning of our creation) the Word (Christ) was there and he was with God (his Father) and is God (God can only begot God, humans can only begot humans, fish only begot fish, etc.). He already existed before the earth came into existence and creation was created through him.

The Son existed in the beginning of our creation with the Father. He was the first and saw creation made. He was with His Father as the earth and everything on it took form. The scriptures show no such beginnning for the Father. Prior to the beginning of creation, he has always existed, though scriptures don't give us any clue as to what He did. All we know is the beginning of our creation which started at Genesis 1.

Blessings,
Dee

I am Trinitarian and mostly agree with what you said here. The whole "begotten" thing really cemented my belief in the Trinity long ago. Let me run something by you. If a being (fish, human, God, etc.) begets someone, isn't EVERY attribute transmitted to the "begetee"? So in the case of God, wouldn't the attributes of omnipotance, onmipresence, etc. be transmitted to Jesus?

God exists outside of time. I'm sure we both agree that God CREATED time. If Jesus shares ALL attributes with God, like the word "beget" assumes, we can logically conclude that there was never a "time" when the Father existed, but the Son did not. The Son is ETERNALLY begotten from the Father.

You rightly say "As a result, the Son as stated in Hebrews, shares the same essential nature and essence as the Father". Just carry your thinking out to it's logical conclusion.

 

[Elijah674]

In the short time that I've been here, I've seen denial of the Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, etc., from those who claim the title "Christian".

So then, the question is: "Are there essential doctrines that one must adhere to in order to be a Christian, and if so, what are they?"

Curious as to what folks think.

First comes the CAUTION LIGHT in Bottom/line!

The False Doctrine of O.S.A.S. as in Only/believe/ism is what will fill hell with both the Luke 12:47-48 ones mostly. 2 Peter 2:19.. 19 on through 22.

--Elijah