Eternal Conditions With ALL Created Free Will!

[Elijah674]

Adam & Eve had freedom of choice. Perfectly created, yet, not MATURELY perfect. Still Heb. 5 babes! (as are the Rom. 8:1 who are to MATURE in verse 14's being LED!)

Cain in Gen 4:7 was directed one last time for his FREE Fatal choice, he was turned over to satan with his new total Desire. His maturity was 'set' in rebellion, yet Christ gave him a person to person last FREE CHOICE!

Cain was satan's FIRST full-fledged Convert. From there we find Abel killed by Cain's spiritual leader, (satan) & Seth not to come on the scene as another son of God (Godliness by free choice) for about an head start for satan of 120 years. And at the time of the flood? Gen. 6:3 finds Noah which Peter called the preacher of Righteousness, preaching & building the Ark for also an 120 years. But that free Choice of these pre/flood ones is said to be the Godheads slaughter of innocents??? There probation was to choose as even the ones of Rev. 17:1-5 ones had, and notice that in both these cases of their free will, that the HOLY SPIRIT GOD HAD BEEN STRIVING WITH THEM ALL FOR 120 YEARS. And the Rev. 17:1-5 ones have had way past that time allotment to repent before Rebellion was reached.

More free will. 1 Sam. 8 finds the Lord rejected that 'I should not reign over them.' ibid. 7 But, God does not let their FREE WILL be removed! (and the results are seen printed, at least some of them. Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15)
Here are some highlights of what did follow their free will. And of these mistakes (sin) which are recorded by the Lords people, God takes the HEAT for! (we will get to David shortly)

1 Sam. 8 (in part only Israel comes to Samuel..)

[5] And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
(don't miss this, [like all nations! not just the below listings will be seen, but much else in the kings to follow! such as rebellion +! women problems & harem as the 'other nations' had. And God takes the heat for this also for permitting their free/will! This the wicked & satan gloat over, huh! more proof will follow on.)

[6] But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
[7] And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

[8] According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.
[9] Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.
....
[10] And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.
[11] And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will ..... .
.....
[18] And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
[19] Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;
[20] That [we also may be like all the nations;] and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.
[21] And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD.
[22] And the LORD said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.

Lets skip King Saul who started out well & God turned him into another man by giving him the Holy Spirit & who even then rebelled later & the Spirit of God was removed from him, and go to 2 Sam. 12 were King David 'flunked' the course, yet did repent. But the point is clearly seen who was 'BLASPHEMED' and took the heat for the Lords faulty free choice ones sins?

2 Sam.
[12] For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.
[13] And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

(OK: here is the point! Free choice, notice who took the most heat from satan's crew. And what effect did the free choice of David give the world to accuse God? In other words, again, who took the heat for free choice?)

[14] Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion [to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme], the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

--Elijah

 

[Strangelove]

Beautiful post Elijah.

Really....I've never seen a more colourful or tremendously fonted and bracketed post in my forum career.

Well played sir.

 

[Elijah674]

--Elijah here:
Notice that these were saved by accepting Christ and the conditions for His Salvation, (John 3:3 + Acts 5:32) and then became entangled again & apostasied. But what about their claim & teaching??

2 Peter 2
[18] For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

[19] While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

[20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

[21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

(and Holy Commandment? Matt. 28:20)

[22] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his [own vomit again]; and the sow that [was washed] to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Where does it say in the scripture that adam had freewill ?

 

[Sinthesis]

Where does it say in the scripture that adam had freewill ?

Gen 2:19 - And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.​

 

[savedbygrace57]

Gen 2:19 - And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.
​

I dont see in that verse where God says He gave man freewill..

For what I see in that verse is all things going according to the will of God...eph 1:

being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 

[Elijah674]

I dont see in that verse where God says He gave man freewill..

For what I see in that verse is all things going according to the will of God...eph 1:

being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

I did not post that, but the Holy Spirit did INSPIRE HIS TRUTH about the Eternal Condition of the Universe Staying Saved. Acts 5:32

And Obedience is your free choice.

--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

elijah:

And Obedience is your free choice.

No its not. Its Gods choice. Its a result of the Sovereign work of the Holy Spirit.

1 pet 1:2

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Now show us a scripture that says obedeince is a choice in regards to salvation..

 

[savedbygrace57]

elijah:

Eternal Condition of the Universe Staying Saved. Acts 5:32

Acts 5 32 says nothing about the eternal condition of the universe staying saved ! lol


It says 32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


You in the habit of looking at a verse and then twisting it and turning it to say whatever you want it to say ? geesh..

 

[Sinthesis]

Gen 2:19 - And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.​

I dont see in that verse where God says He gave man freewill..

For what I see in that verse is all things going according to the will of God...eph 1:

being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Of course you don't see it; you can't. One could under pretext read the verse as "Sovereign God created and named every creature." However this interpretation reduces Adam to a simple 'naming tool', unworthy of Love.

What the verse shows is God, the creator and source of all authority, delegating authority to Adam regarding the naming of all the worlds beasts. Within Adam's God-given authority, Adam's will is free. Further, God respects the names Adam chooses. God will also respect the choice we make as to whether we follow Him or something else, even if our choice leads to our personal eternal damnation. That God knew what Adam would name the animals in no way negates the naming process. Likewise, God knows who will eventually submit the authority they've been given over their own life back to God, and thus accept the gift of eternal salvation.

 

[savedbygrace57]

sint:

Of course you don't see it;

Correct, because its not there. Its a made up myth of man..

 

[Elijah674]

elijah:



No its not. Its Gods choice. Its a result of the Sovereign work of the Holy Spirit.

1 pet 1:2

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Now show us a scripture that says obedeince is a choice in regards to salvation..

Here is one of many. (but 'i' say, your post is very snapy there, for one being Born Again?) And the Lord's forknowledge does not remove what the Godhead Eternally knew was going to be choosen by [our free will!!] ACTS 5:32

Eze. 33
[11] Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but [that the wicked turn from his way and live:] turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; [for why will ye die], O house of Israel?

[12] Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. (compare Hosea 4:6)

And just one more?

For I have NO PLEASURE in the death of him that dieth, SAITH THE LORD GOD: [WHEREFOR TURN YOURSELVES, AND LIVE YE.] Eze. 18

And your Holy Spirit with Sanctification verse? There is NO SANCTIFICATION without being Rom. 8:14 'Led' of the Holy Spirit! And ALL the pre/flood ones had for 120 years the [STRIVING OF THE HOLY GHOST WITH NOAH'S PREACHING!]

NO: The Inspirition of the Holy Ghost has it documented this way..

I CALL HEAVEN AND EARTH TO RECORD THIS DAY AGAINST YOU, [THAT I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU LIFE AND DEATH,] BLESSING AND CURSING: [THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE], THAT BOTH THOU AND THY SEED MAY LIVE. Deut. 30:19

 

[savedbygrace57]

Here is one of many. (but 'i' say, your post is very snapy there, for one being Born Again?) And the Lord's forknowledge does not remove what the Godhead Eternally knew was going to be choosen by [our free will!!] ACTS 5:32

Eze. 33
[11] Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but [that the wicked turn from his way and live:] turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; [for why will ye die], O house of Israel?

[12] Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. (compare Hosea 4:6)

And just one more?

For I have NO PLEASURE in the death of him that dieth, SAITH THE LORD GOD: [WHEREFOR TURN YOURSELVES, AND LIVE YE.] Eze. 18

And your Holy Spirit with Sanctification verse? There is NO SANCTIFICATION without being Rom. 8:14 'Led' of the Holy Spirit! And ALL the pre/flood ones had for 120 years the [STRIVING OF THE HOLY GHOST WITH NOAH'S PREACHING!]

NO: The Inspirition of the Holy Ghost has it documented this way..

I CALL HEAVEN AND EARTH TO RECORD THIS DAY AGAINST YOU, [THAT I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU LIFE AND DEATH,] BLESSING AND CURSING: [THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE], THAT BOTH THOU AND THY SEED MAY LIVE. Deut. 30:19

Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience[Death] of one [Jesus Christ] shall many be made righteous.

Those being saved [made righteous] are so by the obedience of one, Jesus Christ..mans freewill is obsolete.

 

[Elijah674]

Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience[Death] of one [Jesus Christ] shall many be made righteous.

Those being saved [made righteous] are so by the obedience of one, Jesus Christ..mans freewill is obsolete.

No one is denying those ABSOLUTELY TRUE VERSES! And the Godhead had ETERNALLY KNOWN who they would be. Even with Luciffer, they understood that he in time would choose to rebel. And in Gen. 4:7 we even see Adam & Eves FIRST BORN Son make a FATAL DECISION to apostatise!

Yet, note Christ's Words to him, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

So?? Would he be or not? And satan, (Eze. 28 says that he was created PERFECT. As will our start, if that is the case? Rom. 8:1's NO CONDEMNATION means [[PERFECT]]... but there is a verse 14 of being LED if one will be!?
And that is for MATURING INTO SANCTIFIED PERFECTION, SAFE TO SAVE THROUGH/OUT ETERNITY! Nah. 1:9

I expect that Eccl. 1:9-10 is way beyond you? + that of Eccl. 315?? If not, and if the Inspiration is BELIEVED then you could even find that Luciffer was the first of Gods creation. It might amaze one how long that he was faithful before his fatal free will choice if we knew?? Even Cain was a mature farmer who had nothing negative found until this reported Fatal Free Choice DECISION.

--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

No one is denying those ABSOLUTELY TRUE VERSES! And the Godhead had ETERNALLY KNOWN who they would be. Even with Luciffer, they understood that he in time would choose to rebel. And in Gen. 4:7 we even see Adam & Eves FIRST BORN Son make a FATAL DECISION to apostatise!

Yet, note Christ's Words to him, If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

So?? Would he be or not? And satan, (Eze. 28 says that he was created PERFECT. As will our start, if that is the case? Rom. 8:1's NO CONDEMNATION means [[PERFECT]]... but there is a verse 14 of being LED if one will be!?
And that is for MATURING INTO SANCTIFIED PERFECTION, SAFE TO SAVE THROUGH/OUT ETERNITY! Nah. 1:9

I expect that Eccl. 1:9-10 is way beyond you? + that of Eccl. 315?? If not, and if the Inspiration is BELIEVED then you could even find that Luciffer was the first of Gods creation. It might amaze one how long that he was faithful before his fatal free will choice if we knew?? Even Cain was a mature farmer who had nothing negative found until this reported Fatal Free Choice DECISION.

--Elijah

Those who Christ died for, by His obedience, they shall be made righteous, that means they will be caused to do well..

rom 5:19b

so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous they will be made is the greek word
dikaios and means:

righteous, observing divine laws

a) in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

Hows that ? This applies to all Christ died for. Those doing not righteous, Christ did not die for them, simple as that..

And there are plenty who are unrighteous.

 

[glorydaz]

Rom 5:19b

so by the obedience[Death] of one [Jesus Christ] shall many be made righteous.

Those being saved [made righteous] are so by the obedience of one, Jesus Christ..mans freewill is obsolete.

Obsolete? The wind, seas, and all of creation have no choice but to obey the will of God.
Man alone can resist and refuse Him. God is Love and not willing that any should perish, but allows man the choice to believe in Him. He desires a loving relationship with man...not a forced one.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scripture is clear that man "will not come"....not cannot come.

And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

34O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

The "space" spoken of here is time to choose...man's free will. The very idea of repentance involves choosing good over evil.

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

 

[Alabaster]

I dont see in that verse where God says He gave man freewill..

For what I see in that verse is all things going according to the will of God...eph 1:

being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

What makes you think that Adam was created as a robotic drone of God? He had a will just as you have.

 

[jasoncran]

What makes you think that Adam was created as a robotic drone of God? He had a will just as you have.

he is a hyper calvinist.

 

[Alabaster]

he is a hyper calvinist.

I have no idea what that represents, but I find the at-odds-with-the-truth beliefs alarming.

 

[jasoncran]

I have no idea what that represents, but I find the at-odds-with-the-truth beliefs alarming.

calvinists believe that God selects from all racists whom to save. hypercalvinists dont they believe that certian indivuals and or races as a whole are doomed.