Bible Study Ever wonder why Jesus got baptized?

[Fnerb]

I do not see the relevance to this discussion... please explain.

Well when talking about the efficacy of baptism it is basically the edge of a much larger issue ... conversion. A "debate" on baptism can't help but end up there. If one accepts decision theology then he cannot accept infant baptism and it would do me little good to debate or defend it.

I realize that it hasn't been the focal of our discussion, but I feel it's an important point of it and was just curious.

BTW, i'm not ignoring the discussion by any means. :D

 

[Guest]

I believe that God draws us to Him - that through grace we are able to make a decision to accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. God draws us to Him and through his grace gives us the ability to believe.

As a result of the belief, one get's baptized out of obedience to God's Word and as a public testimony of the work that God is doing in the life of the believer.

As I understand 'decision theology' I would not agree with it completely.

 

[papajoe]

Have you ever asked yourself, I wonder why Jesus got baptized? If you have perhaps you'd be interested in a different view to all this. And in order to get that view let us go to the Scriptures.
In Matthew 3:13,14 and 15 we find out the following facts.
Jesus purposely came to John for baptism .
We see John not wanting to baptize him but Jesus saying yes, suffer it to be so now in order to fulfill "all righteousness"
Now we're certain that this righteousness that Jesus wanted to be baptized to fulfill was not his own righteousness. For to believe that we would have to accept the fact that Jesus was unrighteous just before his baptism. And we are sure that situation did not exist.
So if Jesus did not get baptized to fulfill his own righteousness whose righteousness was he being baptized for?
At this point we should probably agree on this understanding. We know that the Scriptures say that all our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord. Therefore the question becomes can we look at our baptism as an act of righteousness that will not be accepted before the Lord. If we agree that the two statements just posed are true then the rest is kind of easy. When we(you and I) get baptized we get baptized into the Lord Jesus Christ. Just as all our other acts of righteousness will not be accepted by the father, neither will our act of being baptized be accepted, except we get baptized into Christ whose baptism fulfills not his own righteousness but our righteousness.
Another words, the Lord Jesus Christ got baptized in order to fulfill" all righteousness" the all righteousness statement is for all believers. What think ye?

We know that part of the ministry of Jesus was to fulfil the law and the prophets.
Jesus said that John the Baptist was the greatest of the Profits. (Luke 7:28)
Baptism would have become a part of the Law and the Prophets, if the leaders of Israel had accepted John the Baptist.
Jesus was just fulfilling the Law and the Prophets by being Baptized by John, in the same way that he observed all of the other Holy days.

 

[Toms777]

Acts 2:38 - Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

What does scripture say about receiving the Holy Spirit?

John 7:38-39
38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of
living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him
would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
NKJV

Rom 8:9-11
10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of
righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He
who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit
who dwells in you.
NKJV

Rom 8:16-17
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if
children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him,
that we may also be glorified together.
NKJV

It is not the act of baptism that causes us to receive the Holy Spirit but it is calling upon God for salvation. Note that In Acts 10:47, we have a specific example of a person saved before water baptism.

Acts 10:46-48
Then Peter answered, 47 Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
NKJV

Acts 22:16 - And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'

There are three things mentioned in this passage:

1) We are to arise and be baptized
2) We are to call upon the name of the Lord
3) We are to have our sins washed away.

Let's also look at Hebrews 9 which speaks of the that which cleanses us from sin:

Heb 9:11-15
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more
perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood
of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all,
having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of
a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 1 4 how much more
shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to
God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this
reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the
transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise
of the eternal inheritance.
NKJV

We see confirmation here that it is not the water that cleanses, but the blood of Christ sacrificed on the cross.

 

[Bick]

I do not believe "fulfill all righteousness" has anything to do with the righteousness of future believers.

Let us read more of the context: (15) "And Jesus answering said unto him, 'Suffer it to be so now; for thus it becometh US to fulfill all righteousness.' Then he suffered him."
Capitals mine for emphasis.

The best explanation to me is from the Companion Bible notes, page 1313: This duty was incumbent on John as a minister of that time; likewise on the Lord: hence the word "thus". John came baptizing with water so that Jesus, the Lamb of God, might be manifest to Israel (John 1:29-34). "All righteousness" meant every claim of righteous duty.

This baptism was the annointing of Messiah, and annointing was accompanied by washing or immersion (Ex. 29:4-7; 40:12; Lev. 8:6).

 

[Bick]

Before Jesus was manifested to Israel, John the baptizer came preaching in the wilderness, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." He was preaching to Israel, whose hope was the Messianic kingdom on earth. Those who obeyed came "confessing their sins," thus acknowledging their unfitness to be in the coming kingdom. "Baptism" or "immersion" in water (the Jordan River) was a sign of their repentence.

A meaning of "baptism" is to "be identified with." The word itself does not automatically mean to be immersed in water." Case in Point: In Matt. 20:21-23, After Jesus tells the twelve that he shall be betrayed and condemned to death, the mother of James and John asks if they might sit on his right and his left in the kingdom. Jesus answers and says, "Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" AV.
They say unto him they are able. And he saith unto them, 'Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give..."
James and John did indeed "drink the cup" of death, for they indeed died a tortuous death, according to tradition.

Since the church/body of Christ was established by the apostle Paul, all believers in Christ Jesus are baptised (identified) with Christ Jesus death through the operation of the Spirit.

Romans 6:3-4 (AV), "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

No ceremony of water baptism did that. The entire context is supernatural in its character.
'By the Spirit's baptism into Christ the believer is permanently joined The Lord; he has put on Christ, and therefore, being in Christ, partakes of all that Christ is.'
Lewis Sperry Chafer (Systematic Theology, Vol. 6, pare 41.)

Bick

 

[papajoe]

I do not believe "fulfill all righteousness" has anything to do with the righteousness of future believers.

Let us read more of the context: (15) "And Jesus answering said unto him, 'Suffer it to be so now; for thus it becometh US to fulfill all righteousness.' Then he suffered him."
Capitals mine for emphasis.

The best explanation to me is from the Companion Bible notes, page 1313: This duty was incumbent on John as a minister of that time; likewise on the Lord: hence the word "thus". John came baptizing with water so that Jesus, the Lamb of God, might be manifest to Israel (John 1:29-34). "All righteousness" meant every claim of righteous duty.

This baptism was the annointing of Messiah, and annointing was accompanied by washing or immersion (Ex. 29:4-7; 40:12; Lev. 8:6).

Than you Bick
I have pondered the Baptism of Jesus ever since I knew about it.
Your insight is the best I’ve ever heard.
I’m saving a copy for further reference, thankyouverymuch.
Papajoe

 

[hesahama]

Jesus received baptism because he identified himself with sinners, taking the steps we are to take, and doing the work we must do.

13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.


It was also done so that John would fulfill prophecy, enabling him to present Jesus to the people.

Isaiah 40:3
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

John 1:29
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

 

[Toms777]

hesahema is correct in that Jesus had to be perfectly obedient to the Father, and had to fulfill the prophecy which spoke of Him. Bick also brought up an interesting point. John's baptism was in fact a "mikveh" or a Jewish ritual washing. We are told that in Hebrews 9, where the reference to ritual washings in English is in fact, in the original; Greek, the same word as we translate for baptism, "baptismos".

This passage is very clear regarding the symbolic nature of the various rituals. Again, the reference here to ritual washings is the same word used elsewhere in the New Testament where it is translated as “baptismâ€Â.

Heb 9:11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more
perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood
of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all,
having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of
a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more
shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to
God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this
reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the
transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise
of the eternal inheritance.
NKJV

This part of the passage compares the blood sacrifices in the Old Testament times with the one sacrifice which was capable of taking away sins of men, the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. What we see here is that the Old Testament rituals were prophetic of that which was to come. We see a comparison to the Old testament sacrifices to the sacrifice of Christ on the cross which cleanses our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Therefore, we in fact see the baptism of Jesus as a ritual washing, but it was more because the ritual washing was prophetic of Him and his sacrifice on the cross. John'sd baptism was a baptism of repentance, but as we know now, it was only though the sacrifice on the cross that the sins could be washed away. In effect, therefore, Jesus' act was prophetic of His own coming crucifixion.

When the ritual washings is understood in fact to be a baptism, I believe it gives a clearly understanding of Hebrews 9 and illuminates the intent of the passage.

 

[stovebolts]

If ya have 20 minutes, here's an excellent sermon on the matter.
http://www.sycamoreview.tv/pub/102107am1.mp3

The speaker is John Mark Hicks, Professor of Theology at Lipscomb University.

The question is, if you follow Jesus, will you follow Jesus into the water? I think this lesson will complement the last few posts of this thread.

God bless.

 

[garethppls]

From what I've heard baptism comes from the mikvah, which is a purification method in Judaism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikvah

But it has adopted a far greater meaning since the coming of Christ. I'm not incredibly sure of this but I think I did read that it did come from that.

 

[stovebolts]

Hello garethppls,
Yes, baptism goes back a long way... It can be a very detailed study if you dig back far enough.

I posted his Video on Godtube if anyone would rather view it.
Jesus Baptism

I'd be very interested to discuss what he has to say with anyone willing to discuss.

 

[stovebolts]

Any comments on the video?
I liked the way he connected our baptism to the baptism of Jesus, such as making the choice to follow the will of the father etc.

 

[OfficerCarson]

he did this simply to lead by example

besides the symbol of this act is to show perifaction through a relationship with Christ.

 

[stovebolts]

Hello Officer :wink:

I agree that he did it to set us an example as he did so many other things to set an example for us (John 13), but I also believe that it was so much more than just an example.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Permit it to be so now: for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he permitted him.

We know that Jesus was about 30 years old.
We know that he recieved the Holy Spirit after his baptism.
We know that after Jesus was baptized, he started his ministry.

There are more things that we know about the baptism of Jesus as well. But as an example, this is where Jesus started his ministry... Shouldn't we start ours by following Christ's example into the water?

P.S. What's perifaction ? Can you reword that?
Thanks!

 

[OfficerCarson]

perifaction

uhhhh.... ah

cleaning of our souls

because this is what it is suppose to symbolize

that we have been reborn and our soul has been cleansed by him

 

[stovebolts]

perifaction

Ohh, you mean, Purification :wink:

cleaning of our souls

because this is what it is suppose to symbolize

that we have been reborn and our soul has been cleansed by him

Agreed! We kinda have to watch ourselves when we speak like this though as there are some that will misread what you wrote and think that were saying that the water saves.. :-? which I'd rather not have this discussion go in that direction.

I think a great part of the decision for Jesus to become baptises is two fold. First, he's making that public commitment to God to follow God's will. When we read the next chapter in our bibles, we see that Jesus was led by the spirit into the wilderness where Satan tempted him. Yet Jesus was not like the first son of David (Solomon) and he stayed true to his commitment.

I know that when I made my public commitment to Christ, I really went through some trials... and it wasn't easy to resist all of the temptations (which can still be true at times when I'm least suspecting it)

The second thing that Christ is doing, is identifying with the sinners. Again, this holds true time and time again throughout his ministry. What were his words? Luke 5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."

Remember, John's baptism was a baptsim of repentance for sinners, and so was the baptism spoken about in Acts 2:38 with the guarantee of the Holy Spirit.

 

[OfficerCarson]

very good point

and i will keep this in mind when i post on topics like this. :smt111

 

[stovebolts]

When we talk about the Baptism of Jesus, we need to keep in mind that John’s baptism was a baptism for sinners to repent of their sins that they would be forgiven.

Luke 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Was Jesus a sinner? Did he need this baptism for the remission of his sins? The short answer is this. “NOâ€Â.

So, why did Jesus go into the water? One reason might be this.
When the people came, they asked questions, and John responded accordinly.
Luke 3:10-14 And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? He answered and said unto them, He that has two coats, let him impart to him that has none; and he that has food, let him do likewise. Then came also tax collectors to be baptized, and said unto him, Teacher, what shall we do? And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. And the soldiers likewise asked of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

So why did John respond so negatively with the religious elite?
Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

To understand this, one must understand the times of the day. You see, if you look back in the OT, Israel was supposed to be this great nation. Unfortunately, there were some that wanted to rule the earth their way, and not God’s way and as a result, God kept good on his promise and divided the kingdom (Judah and Israel) and then sent them into exile for not keeping the covenant they had made at Mt. Sinai.

Exodus 24:6-8 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basins; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD has made with you concerning all these words.

(See Deuteronomy 28 for the effects of being disobedient to the covenant)

So, here we are in present day Jerusalem (Jesus day) where Israel had come out of exile and they kinda gained control over Jerusalem (Zion) once again. However, here they are this time under Roman rule so they’re not entirely free. Now the religious people know exactly why they are under Roman oppression (Remember, Oppression is a common theme with Israel), it’s because they disobeyed the covenant and God is making good on his promise (Deuteronomy 28) and they believe that they have to win God’s favor by obeying his commands right down to the littlest detail. We might even look at this as “Overkillâ€Â. In other words, they moved to far to the right with their zeal to please God.

In their zeal, they missed the mark in a lot of areas, such as being compassionate and showing mercy to all that were oppressed and like Solomon, became the oppressors themselves without fully realizing it. Their worship to God had become centered toward themselves and their own ‘denominations’ and less about those around them and the true kingdom of God. In short, they forgot how to ‘Cry’ out to the Lord and viewed themselves in a righteous relationship with God because they were keeping all of God’s commands. In other words, though their motives were noble, they missed the mark.

Because they missed the mark, they didn’t believe that they needed to be baptized because they viewed themselves as righteous. What most don’t see today is that this idea was confirmed by many of the commoners. They actually looked up to these religious leaders as being righteous in the eyes of God. (Which is why eating with them was such a big deal [Luke 7:36]) Now, here comes Jesus, the truly righteous one that didn’t need to be baptized, yet he made a choice. Who would he associate with? Would he identify with the righteous? Or would he identify with the sinners?

Do you remember when they called Jesus the "Son of David", the question was begged, what kind of a son? Would he be like Solomon and restore the kingdom? Unfortunatly, most misunderstood what was meant by kingdom.

Questions?