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Bible Study Evil In The Tree of Good and Evil

ugmug

Member
Evil In The Tree of Good and Evil

When God created everything it took 6 days which reveals a precise and logical thought pattern based on principles, laws, and axioms of unwavering righteousness, which build up into a process of creating.

God did not just bring 'things' into being on a whim, but surrounded everything that he created with a structure of physical laws to give them permanence. Next, enter Satan, who uses any intelligence he may possess to thwart God's creation, by plotting and scheming to undo all that God created.

The central object inherent in the first story of the bible is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Here you have an object that God places off limits to mankind, with a warning not to eat of the fruit, in order to develop man's inner self-restraint.

Satan on the other hand, disguised as a serpent, has no inner self-restraint (evil) and proceeded to plot to use mankind into destroying itself. So here God reveals the meaning of the knowledge of good and evil.

The knowledge of good is a thought process based on structured laws and principles, while evil is an impulsive and secretive thought process that plots to undo anything of lasting value.

Knowledge isn't just a collection of facts. But a thinking process that leads either to creating something valuable and permanent, as in the 6 days of creation, or plotting to undo what has already been created in one moment of revenge.

God Bless
 
This strikes with a good resonance several chords of truth from Yhwh. Especially "knowledge" isnt' just facts --- I like the Hebrew that says clearly and often "experiential knowledge" as of Yhwh - experience with Yhwh and walking with Him constantly, daily, moment by moment ("in union with Yhwh in Yeshua, today!").

One curiosity subject to checking --- others have posted online that the word rendered 'snake' or 'serpent' in Genesis is translated "angel of light" everywhere else it is used without exception (i.e. never translated snake anywhere else). I wonder if Eve would be more likely to listen to a snakelike creature no matter how beautiful, or to an angel appearing as an angel of light ? And which one would be more able to speak and to deceive people in the beginning, and today - an animal/creature or an angel appearing as an angel of light ?
 
This strikes with a good resonance several chords of truth from Yhwh. Especially "knowledge" isnt' just facts --- I like the Hebrew that says clearly and often "experiential knowledge" as of Yhwh - experience with Yhwh and walking with Him constantly, daily, moment by moment ("in union with Yhwh in Yeshua, today!").

One curiosity subject to checking --- others have posted online that the word rendered 'snake' or 'serpent' in Genesis is translated "angel of light" everywhere else it is used without exception (i.e. never translated snake anywhere else). I wonder if Eve would be more likely to listen to a snakelike creature no matter how beautiful, or to an angel appearing as an angel of light ? And which one would be more able to speak and to deceive people in the beginning, and today - an animal/creature or an angel appearing as an angel of light ?

Are you suggesting that satan wasn't in the form of a snake ? It's possible and would make sense that he appeared trustworthy. I wonder why we see the curse upon satan looking like a literal snake though maybe it was at this point he was transformed ?


Gen 3:14 KJV And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
 
Are you suggesting that satan wasn't in the form of a snake ? It's possible and would make sense that he appeared trustworthy. I wonder why we see the curse upon satan looking like a literal snake though maybe it was at this point he was transformed ?


Gen 3:14 KJV And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Yes, I don't have the Jewish Believer's website at hand, but they point out how silly it would be to listen to a snake, even a snake standing on two legs! They also make a better point that it is still (more) common to be deceived today by satan appearing as an angel of light than by an animal talking. (i.e. a person with nationwide acclaim holding 'great' revivals, with 'credentials' dressed to kill (unfortunately literally!) delivering a very pretty or powerful message to an audience that doesn't have any sense of right or wrong).

The 'definition' of the original text might or might not be verifiable - again the enemy has had 2000 years to make up and to change billions of documents so what is claimed to be 'authoritative' (by anyone) is still subject to testing and correction. (but how many people actually test out and seek the truth no matter what it costs them!? - it's so much easier to trust someone else, even though their very soul is (or MAY BE) at stake, or staurios?(execution stake/crucifixion on a tree)..... ) .... .... ....
 
Hi Brother ugmug.

Was the law the fruit of the tree of good and evil? Kills.
Was Jesus the tree of life Jesus? Everlasting life.
2 Cor 3:6 . . not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones . .

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.
 
Yes, I don't have the Jewish Believer's website at hand, but they point out how silly it would be to listen to a snake, even a snake standing on two legs! They also make a better point that it is still (more) common to be deceived today by satan appearing as an angel of light than by an animal talking. (i.e. a person with nationwide acclaim holding 'great' revivals, with 'credentials' dressed to kill (unfortunately literally!) delivering a very pretty or powerful message to an audience that doesn't have any sense of right or wrong).

The 'definition' of the original text might or might not be verifiable - again the enemy has had 2000 years to make up and to change billions of documents so what is claimed to be 'authoritative' (by anyone) is still subject to testing and correction. (but how many people actually test out and seek the truth no matter what it costs them!? - it's so much easier to trust someone else, even though their very soul is (or MAY BE) at stake, or staurios?(execution stake/crucifixion on a tree)..... ) .... .... ....

Did God not use a burning bush or an ass to speak to his people, Exodus 3:1-15; Numbers 22:21-35 so why can't God use a snake (serpent) to speak to Eve. Many think the things of God are silly, but yet perish for their unbelief.
 
ugmug I wouldn't say that Satan tried to undo that of what God created, but wanted all of it for himself in his selfish pride and arrogance. This is why this world is so much indwelled with evil for the earth is that of Satan's kingdom.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
 
Oh, He could. But the definition isn't used (according to 'authoritative' hebrew word studies) anywhere else.
There's other very strong evidence ('circumstantial') that satan appeared as an angel and not a snake,
but the church that is responsible for many deceptions doesn't like to be exposed. (I'll try to find out if it's permitted here).

Sorry I need scripture and not some mans definition, If God called it a serpent then I believe in the whole word of God without mans translation of interpretations of it. You never seem to give scriptures unless you are forced to, but always say that Yhwh says so, but never give scripture so we can read and study it for ourselves. Strong evidence doesn't cut the mustard as it's only speculation as proof is in the word of God.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
 
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.......
Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

without seeing the previous context, Ephesians 2:1ff is so 'enlightening' !? (i.e. the WHOLE WORLD is in sin, everybody to start with!)(i.e. it is NOT a good place (society nor mankind nor man's accomplishments in the world/flesh)
Ephesians 2
J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)

We were all dead: God gave us life through Christ
2 1-3 To you, who were spiritually dead all the time that you drifted along on the stream of this world’s ideas of living, and obeyed its unseen ruler (who is still operating in those who do not respond to the truth of God), to you Christ has given life! We all lived like that in the past, and followed the impulses and imaginations of our evil nature, being in fact under the wrath of God by nature, like everyone else.
 
You shouldn't assume it is some man's definition - and directly contrasted as many have accepted many of man's definitions from seriously faulty sources some disclosed and some not ever (so far) disclosed.
A Berean when they heard anyone speak a lesson, went home later and searched the Tanakh to see if it lines up with ALL of Yhwh's Word, not just bits here and there. i.e. it takes more than a few minutes, and often more than several days to find out.


(looking for original ) (will be in future post probably)
(e.w.bullinger is very good resource for most biblical study - the companion bible is one of the most objective authoritative recognized and accepted by students of Yhwh and Scripture and followers of Yeshua)

(still, test everything in constant prayer)
 
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I do not need a link to show me why a lie was propagated by the church as if you read and study scripture it already tells you that Satan is the father of all lies, has his own ministry and works through his own disciples. I'm not saying every man is wrong in their definitions, but I say compare scripture with scripture as that is where you will find truth through the Holy Spirit revealing it to you. When I read Genesis 3:1 it simply says the serpent was more subtil (clever or crafty) than any beast of the field God created. The serpent was a created beast (animal) of the field that Satan used to speak through.

Just because you say God said something I am not going to believe you or anyone else unless it is found in scripture of what God has already spoke. This is why we have asked you to give scripture for what you claim God said so we can test that of what you or anyone else is speaking as we compare scripture with scripture and allow the Holy Spirit to confirm that of what another says is truth or error, 1John 4:1-6.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
 
THE SERPENT OF GENESIS 3
By Dr. Bullinger

In Genesis 3 we have neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of certain Figures of speech.

All the confusion of thought and exegesis have arisen from taking literally what is expressed by Figures, or from taking figuratively what is literal. A Figure of speech is never used except for the purpose of calling attention to, emphasizing, and intensifying, the reality of the literal sense, and the truth of the historical facts; so that, while the words employed may not be so strictly true to the letter, they are all the more true to the truth conveyed by them, and to the historical events connected with them.

But for the figurative language of verses 14 and 15 no one would have thought of referring the third chapter of Genesis to a snake: no more than he does when reading the third chapter of Revelation (ch. 20:2). Indeed, the explanation added there, that the "old serpent" is the Devil and Satan, would immediately lead one to connect the word "old" with the earlier and former mention of the serpent in Gen. 3: and the fact that it was Satan himself who tempted "the second man", "the last Adam", would force the conclusion that no other than the personal Satan could have been the tempter of "the first man, Adam".

The Hebrew word rendered "serpent" in Gen. 3.1 is Nachash (from the root Nachash, to shine), and means a shining one. Hence, in Chaldee it means brass or copper, because of its shining. Hence also, the word nehushtan, a piece of brass, in 2 Kings 18.4.

In the same way Saraph, in Isaiah 6.2,6, means a burning one, and, because the serpents mentioned in Numbers 21 were burning, in the poison of their bite, they were called Saraphim, or Seraphs.

But when the LORD said unto Moses, "Make thee a fiery serpent" (Numbers 21.8), He said, "Make thee a Saraph", and, in obeying this command, we read in verse 9, "Moses made a Nachash of brass". Nachash is thus used as being interchangeable with Saraph.

Now, if Saraph is used of a serpent because its bite was burning, and is also used of a celestial or spirit-being (a burning one), why should nachash be used of a serpent because its appearance was shining, and be also used of a celestial or spirit-being (a shining one)?

Indeed, a reference to the structure of Genesis 3 will show that the Cherubim (which are similar celestial or spirit-beings) of the last verse (Genesis 3.24) require a similar spirit-being to correspond with them in the first verse (for the structure of the whole chapter is a great Introversion). The Nachash, or serpent, who beguiled Eve (2 Corinthians 11.3) is spoken of as "an angel of light" in verse 14. Have we not, in this, a clear intimation that it was not a snake, but a glorious shining being, apparently an angel, to whom Eve paid such great deference, acknowledging him as one who seemed to possess superior knowledge, and who was evidently a being of a superior (not of an inferior) order? Moreover, in the description of Satan as "the king of Tyre" (1) it is distinctly implied that the latter being was of a super-natural order when he is called "a cherub" (Ezekiel 28.14,16, read from verses 11-19). His presence "in Eden, the garden of 'Elohim" (verse 13), is also clearly stated, as well as his being "perfect in beauty" (verse 12), his being "perfect in his ways from the day he was created till iniquity was found in him" (verse 15), and as being "lifted up because of his beauty" (verse 17).

These all compel the belief that Satan was the shining one (Nachash) in Genesis 3, and especially because the following words could be addressed to him: "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that may behold thee" (verse 17).

Even supposing that these things were spoken to, and of, an exalted human being in later days (in Ezekiel 28), still "the king of Tyre" is not compared to a being who was non-existent; and facts and circumstances which never happened are not introduced into the comparison.

There is more about "the king of Tyre" in Ezekiel 28. 11-19 than was literally true of "the prince of Tyre" (verses 1-10). The words can be understood only of the mightiest and most exalted supernatural being that God ever created; and thus for the purpose of showing how great would be his fall. The history must be true to make the prophecy of any weight.

Again, the word rendered "subtle" in Genesis 3.1 (see note) means wise, in a good sense as well as in a bad sense. In Ezekiel 28.12 we have the good sense, "Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom"; and the bad sense in verse 17, "thou hast corrupted thy wisdom" (referring of course, to his fall). So the word rendered "subtle" is rendered "prudent" in Proverbs 1.4; 8.12; 12.23; 14.8; and in a bad sense in Job 15.5. 1 Samuel 23.22. Psalms 83.3.

The word "beast" also, in Genesis 3.1, chay, denotes a living being, and it is wrong to translate zoa "beasts" in Revelation 4, as it is to translate chay "beast" in Genesis 3. Both mean living creature. Satan is thus spoken of as being "more wise than any other living creature which Jehovah Elohim has made". Even if the word "beast" be retained, it does not say that either a serpent or Satan was a "beast", but only that he was "more wise" than any other living being.

We cannot conceive Eve as holding converse with a snake, but we can understand her being fascinated (2) by one, apparently "an angel of light" (i.e. a glorious angel), possessing superior and supernatural knowledge.

When Satan is spoken of as a "serpent", it is the figure Hypocatastasis or Implication; it no more means a snake than it does when Dan is so called in Genesis 49.17; or an animal when Nero is called a "lion" (2 Timothy 4.17), or when Herod is called a "fox" (Luke 13.32); or when Judah is called " a lion's whelp". It is the same figure when "doctrine" is called "leaven" (Matthew 16.6). It shows that something much more real and truer to truth is intended. If a Figure of speech is thus employed, it is for the purpose of expressing the truth more impressively; and is intended to be a figure of something much more real than the letter of the word.

Other Figures of speech are used in verses 14, 15, but only for the same purpose of emphasizing the truth and reality of what is said.
(continued in post below)
 
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(continued from a previous post)

When it is said in verse 15, "thou shalt bruise His heel", it cannot mean His literal heel of flesh and blood, but suffering, more temporary in character. When it is said (verse 15), "He shall crush thy head", it means something more than a skull of bone, and brain, and hair. It means that all Satan's plans and plots, policy and purposes, will one day be finally crushed and ended, never more to mar or to hinder the purposes of God. This will be effected when Satan shall be bruised under our feet (Romans 16.20). This, again, will not be our literal feet, but something much more real.

The bruising of Christ's heel is the most eloquent and impressive way of foretelling the most solemn events; and to point out that the effort made by Satan to evade his doom, then threatened, would become the very means of insuring its accomplishment; for it was through the death of Christ that he who had the power of death would be destroyed; and all Satan's power and policy brought to an end, and all his works destroyed (Hebrews 2.14. 1 John 3.8. Revelation 20.1-3,10). What literal words could portray these literal facts so wonderfully as these Figures of speech?

It is the same with the other Figures used in verse 14, "On thy belly shalt thou go". This Figure means infinitely more than the literal belly of flesh and blood; just as the words "heel" and "head" do in verse 15. It paints for the eyes of our mind the picture of Satan's ultimate humiliation; for prostration was ever the most eloquent sign of subjection. When it is said "our belly cleaveth unto the ground" (Psalms 44.25), it denotes such a prolonged prostration and such a depth of submission as could never be conveyed or expressed in literal words.

So with the other prophecy, "Dust shalt thou eat". This is not true to the letter, or to fact, but it is all the more true to truth. It tells of constant, continuous disappointment, failure, and mortification; as when deceitful ways are spoken of as feeding on deceitful food, which is "sweet to a man, but afterward his mouth shall be filled with gravel" (Proverbs 20.17). This does not mean literal " gravel", but something far more disagreeable. It means disappointment so great that it would gladly be exchanged for literal "gravel". So when Christians are rebuked for "biting and devouring one another" (Galatians 3.14,15), something more heart-breaking is meant than literal words used in the Figure.

When "His enemies shall lick the dust" (Psalms 72.9) they will not do it on their knees with their literal tongues; but they will be so prostrated and so utterly defeated, that no words could literally depict their overthrow and subjugation.

If a serpent was afterward called a nachash, it was because it was more shining than any other creature; and if it became known as "wise", it was not because of its own innate positive knowledge, but of its wisdom in hiding away from all observation; and because of its association with one of the names of Satan (that old serpent) who "beguiled Eve" (2 Corinthians 11.3,13).

It is wonderful how a snake could ever be supposed to speak without the organs of speech, or that Satan should be supposed able to accomplish so great a miracle (3).

It only shows the power of tradition, which has, from the infancy of each one of us, put before our eyes and written on our minds the picture of a "snake" and an "apple": the former based on a wrong interpretation, and the latter being pure invention, about which there is not one word said in the Holy Scripture.

Never was Satan's wisdom so craftily used as when he secured universal acceptance of this traditional belief: for it has succeeded in fixing the attention of mankind on the letter and the means, and thus blinding the eyes to the solemn fact that the Fall of man had to do solely with the Word of God, and is centered in the sin of believing Satan's lie instead of Jehovah's truth.

The temptation of "the first man Adam" began with the question "Hath God said?" The temptation of "the second man, the Lord from heaven" began with the similar question "If Thou be the Son of God", when the voice of the Father had scarcely died away, which said "This IS My beloved Son".

All turned on the truth of what Jehovah had said.

The Word of God being questioned, led Eve, in her reply, (1) to omit the word "freely" (3.2, chapter 2.16); then (2) to add the words "neither shalt thou touch it" (3.3, chapter 2.17); and finally (3) to alter a certainty into a contingency by changing "thou SHALT SURELY die" (2.17) into "LEST ye die" (3.3).

It is not without significance that the first Ministerial words of "the second Man" were "It is written", three times repeated; and that His last Ministerial words contained a similar threefold reference to the written Word of God (John 17.8,14,17).

The former temptation succeeded because the Word of God was three times misrepresented; the latter temptation was successfully defeated because the same Word was faithfully repeated.

The history of Genesis 3 is intended to teach us the fact that Satan's sphere of activities is in the religious sphere, and not the spheres of crime or immorality; that his battlefield is not the sins arising from human depravity, but the unbelief of the human heart. We are not to look for Satan's activities today in the news, or the courts; but in the pulpit, and in professors' chairs. Wherever the Word of God is called into question, there we see the trail of "that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan". This why anything against the true interests of the Word of God (as being such) finds a ready admission into the newspapers of the world, and is treated as "general literature". This is why anything in favor of its inspiration and Divine origin and its spiritual truth is rigidly excluded as being "controversial".

This is why Satan is quite content that the letter of Scripture should be accepted in Genesis 3, as he himself accepted the letter of Psalms 91.11. He himself could say "It is written" (Matthew 4.6) so long as the letter of what is "written" could be put instead of the truth that is conveyed by it; and so long as it is misquoted or misapplied.

This is his object in perpetuating the traditions of the "snake" and the "apple", because it ministers to the acceptance of his lie, the hiding of God's truth, the support of tradition, the jeers of the infidel, the opposition of the critics, and the stumbling of the weak in faith.



1.Ezekiel 28.11-19, who is quite a different being from "the Prince of Tyre", in verses 1-10, who is purely human.2. It is remarkable that the verb nachash always means to enchant, fascinate, bewitch; or of one having and using occult knowledge. See Genesis 30.27; 44.5,15. Leviticus 19.26. Deuteronomy 18.10. 1 Kings 20.33. 2 Kings 17.17;21.6. 2 Chronicles 33.6. So also is the noun used in Numbers 23.22;24.1.3. Greater than that wrought by God Himself, who opened the mouth of Balaam's ass.
 
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A quick 'net search showed Patrick Heron (who died this January past) promoted serpent seed and also wrote the quoted article as posted above. He had other beliefs that were a bit 'out there'.
 
I didn't wait to find out ---- went back to the (more) original and authoritative e.w.bullinger. Haven't seen any dispute about him as to his accuracy.

there also was a long time ago a Hebrew National Israeli who showed clearly from the language / words/ and likewise the Scripture describing satan as an angel of light,
the complete coherence and simple untwisted correct translation like bullinger,
and perhaps more history as to why the 'snake and apple' story started and stuck for so long.

If I find that I may post it also.... (but bullinger is quite sufficient for the trained mind in Christ Jesus and the Word)
 
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Trained mind in Christ by whom, Arnold Murray promoted the Serpent Seed Doctrine and used the companion bible as well..

tob
 
We can go rounds and rounds on what or who the serpent/snake is/was, but missing the whole point that it was in fact Satan, whether in the form of an angel of light or that he entered into an actual snake like he did with Judas Iscariot in Luke 22:3. Satan's whole plan from the beginning was to posses all that was Gods and continues to destroy what is Gods through his deceit, deception and lies as he uses others in his plan of destruction. He knows his fate in the end from the very beginning of his fall and will use anything or anyone in whom he can work through.

1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
 
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