[_ Old Earth _] Evolutıon????

[Solo]

A variation on the theme of evolution is theistic evolution. It states that God initiated life on earth and allowed evolutionary principles to bring man to where he is--maybe with a little help from God here and there. At least this theory includes God. But this theory was developed in part by Bible believing people who thought that evolution had some merit. In addition, it is an attempt to answer the many problems existing not only in the fossil record but also with how life could somehow randomly form out of nothing. Because of problems like this, some believe they can be explained by simply adding God to the picture: God directed evolution.
For those who hold to the Bible as the word of God, theistic evolution should not be a viable option. The Bible says, "Know that the LORD is God. It is he who made us..." (Psalm 100:3). The Scriptures state that God created. God said, "Let there be..." and there was. The Scriptures speak of the creative word of God. When God speaks; it occurs. He said "Let there be" and it was so. It does not say, "Let there be a slow development through an evolutionary process."
God said in Genesis 1:26, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." The Hebrew word for "make" in this verse and in verse 25 where God makes the beasts, is "asah." It means to do, work, make, produce. This is not simply the limited Hebrew understanding of evolutionary principles.
The land animals were made differently than man. The animals were made from the ground but man was made directly by God: "the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being" (Gen. 2:7). Evolution states that man evolved from life forms that developed in the ocean. Here, God made man from the dust of the ground--not the water of the ocean.
If evolution is true and the Bible is true then how is the formation of Eve explained? She was created out of one of Adam's ribs (Gen. 2:22). There is no way to explain this if theistic evolution is true; that is, unless you want to say that Eve wasn't made from Adam's side. Then, if you do that, you are doubting the very word of God.
Also, Jesus said in Mark 10:6 "But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.'" The beginning was not evolutionary slime; in the beginning of creation there was Adam and Eve.
Though this information is brief and far from complete, it should be obvious that theistic evolution and the Scriptures cannot be harmonized.

Retrieved from http://www.carm.org/evolution/evtheistic.htm

 

[Solo]

Theodore N. Tahmisian, a nuclear physicist with the Atomic Energy Commission, has said:


“Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con men, and the story they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever. In explaining evolution we do not have one iota of fact ... It is a tangled mishmash of guessing games and figure jaggling ... If evolution occurred at all, it was probably in a very different manner than the way it is now taught†(Fresno Bee, Aug. 20, 1959).

 

[Solo]

A former Evolutionist, Dr. Wilder-Smith debated various leading scientists on the subject throughout the world. In his opinion, the Evolution model did not fit as well with the established facts of science as did the Creation model of intelligent design.

"The Evolutionary model says that it is not necessary to assume the existence of anything, besides matter and energy, to produce life. That proposition is unscientific. We know perfectly well that if you leave matter to itself, it does not organize itself - in spite of all the efforts in recent years to prove that it does."

Arthur E. Wilder-Smith in Willem J.J. Glashouwer and Paul S. Taylor, The Origin of the Universe (PO Box 200, Gilbert AZ 85299 USA: Eden Communications and Standard Media, 1983).

Retrieved from http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/ ... sts.html#5

 

[cubedbee]

For those who hold to the Bible as the word of God, theistic evolution should not be a viable option. The Bible says, "Know that the LORD is God. It is he who made us..." (Psalm 100:3). The Scriptures state that God created.

Theistic evolution(TE) certainly believes that God created everything.

God said, "Let there be..." and there was.

Yes, he did say this, when he created light, the firmament, and lights in the firmament.

The Scriptures speak of the creative word of God. When God speaks; it occurs.

Correct. And it occurs how he says it, not how you might prefer it happened.

He said "Let there be" and it was so. It does not say, "Let there be a slow development through an evolutionary process."

Well, let's see what he really says, and pick which statement is closest.

With regard to plants and animals, he said "Let the earth bring forth." and "Let the waters bring forth" So, unlike you claim, God didn't create life out of nothing, he brought it forth from the Earth, from the nonliving organic material that he created on a previous day. Absolutely consistent with TE.

God said in Genesis 1:26, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." The Hebrew word for "make" in this verse and in verse 25 where God makes the beasts, is "asah." It means to do, work, make, produce. This is not simply the limited Hebrew understanding of evolutionary principles.

First, God could certainly do, make, or produce man through the process of evolution. This verb does not mean that God simply willed something into existence.

Second, many theistic evolutions, like myself, believe that God did in fact specially create Adam. He physically created him just like he created the rest of nature--through evolution. However, man is physically nothing more than a primate. The making in Gen 1:26 refers to God forming a soul and putting in a primate, creating humans, with the ability to discern right and wrong, with the ability to love and be loved, and this is what causes us to be in God's image.

The land animals were made differently than man. The animals were made from the ground but man was made directly by God: "the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being" (Gen. 2:7).

Both the animals and man was formed out of the dust of the ground through the process of evolution. As I just alluded to, it was the creation of man's soul, the breath of life, which caused us to become spiritually alive. Unfortunately, Adam caused our spiritual death a short time later and we need Christ to get that life back.

Evolution states that man evolved from life forms that developed in the ocean. Here, God made man from the dust of the ground--not the water of the ocean.

It's correct that life developed in the ocean. But life isn't made out of the water--it is made out of "dust" the organic molecules that form the dirt of the ground. God created that first cell out of the dust, and it then developed in the water.

If evolution is true and the Bible is true then how is the formation of Eve explained? She was created out of one of Adam's ribs (Gen. 2:22). There is no way to explain this if theistic evolution is true; that is, unless you want to say that Eve wasn't made from Adam's side. Then, if you do that, you are doubting the very word of God.

If young earth creationism is true, and therefore both Adam and Eve were created in a single 24 hour day, how is it possible that Adam had time to have every single land animal and bird come before him and think of a name to give them? And how is it possible that animals were created both before Adam and after Adam, as the first two chapter tell?

God's word is truth and I would never doubt it--but I would also never attempt to take as factually accurate a story which is obviously meant to be symbolic in nature. You instead get to twist around both textual contradictions in the Bible and factual contradictions in this world to keep believing that every part of God's word contains historical detail.

Also, Jesus said in Mark 10:6 "But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.'" The beginning was not evolutionary slime; in the beginning of creation there was Adam and Eve.

No, at the begining of creation there was light and dark. At the end of creation there was Adam and Eve. The very end--remember chapter 2? First god only made him male---it wasn't until the very last act of creation that there was male and female. Was Jesus lying? Or was he perhaps speaking of from the beginning of man's creation?

Though this information is brief and far from complete, it should be obvious that theistic evolution and the Scriptures cannot be harmonized.

Well, from the fact that literally millions of people have harmonized the two, it is completely obvious, and verifiably true, that the two can be harmonized. I've shown you one way to do it.

 

[cubedbee]

Theodore N. Tahmisian, a nuclear physicist with the Atomic Energy Commission, has said:


“Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con men, and the story they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever. In explaining evolution we do not have one iota of fact ... It is a tangled mishmash of guessing games and figure jaggling ... If evolution occurred at all, it was probably in a very different manner than the way it is now taught†(Fresno Bee, Aug. 20, 1959).

Wow, a nuclear phsyisist speaking making proclamations about the evolutionary biology that was taught 45 years ago! Wow---I'm convinced, this guy was an expert to speak. And oh boy, obviously there wasn't an iota of fact to the theory, nor has any been found since. Amazing how all those millions of people are still being duped 45 years later and how virtually all scientists believe it.

 

[cubedbee]

"The Evolutionary model says that it is not necessary to assume the existence of anything, besides matter and energy, to produce life. That proposition is unscientific. We know perfectly well that if you leave matter to itself, it does not organize itself - in spite of all the efforts in recent years to prove that it does."

Wow, I'm gonna win the Nobel prize! Just a couple weeks ago I put some matter in a cup and just let it set by itself. Checked today, and I have these very organized crystals. Nobody's ever been able to prove this before---I musta just lucked out. Amazing though--I'll have to contact the Dr. so he can update his opinion based on my latest proof.

 

[Solo]

People who claim to be Christians and believe in evolution and an old earth have denied the truth that death came by Adam. They also deny original sin of Adam which brought forth death. Death did not exist prior to the sin of Adam 6000 years ago, therefore, the lies of the evolutionists continue to grow, one lie at a time.

Theistic evolutionists should know better, but it is obvious that they don't. Who would have thought?!

 

[cubedbee]

People who claim to be Christians and believe in evolution and an old earth have denied the truth that death came by Adam. They also deny original sin of Adam which brought forth death

No, they've denied the lie that physical death came through Adam. They freely affirm that spiritual death came through Adam. It's not that hard to see this--God said that Adam would die the day he ate the fruit--we know he spiritually died that day, and we know he physically died hundreds of years later. Hence, since God is not a liar, the death in question was not physical. And, as I have already said, it is because of Adam's sin that we are spiritually dead. Lack reading comprehension, or like making false claims?

Death did not exist prior to the sin of Adam 6000 years ago, therefore, the lies of the evolutionists continue to grow, one lie at a time.

Spiritual death didn't exist before Adam. Physical death is essential to all life and has existed since God first created life, several billion years ago.

 

[Solo]

So theist evolutionists adhere to the old belief of gnosticism, huh?

Did Jesus die physically and spiritually?
Did Jesus resurrect physically?
Did Jesus ascend spiritually or physically?

 

[Barbarian]

So theist evolutionists adhere to the old belief of gnosticism, huh?

Perhaps you don't know what "gnosticism" means.

If you're denying that Adam lived for many years after God told Him he would die the day he ate from the tree, I'd say you were way out of orthodoxy. We know that God meant a spiritual death, not a physical one, because if God had meant a physical death, Adam would have died that day, physically.

But he didn't. So we know God meant a spiritual death. If physical death came to the world by Adam, then God does not tell the truth.

Not much of a choice, is it?

 

[cubedbee]

So theist evolutionists adhere to the old belief of gnosticism, huh?

Did Jesus die physically and spiritually?
Did Jesus resurrect physically?
Did Jesus ascend spiritually or physically?

Just as Genesis 2 clearly says that Adam's death was spiritual, all of the gospels and several letters clearly say that Christ's death resurrection, and ascension were physical.

You're pretty good at falsely representing the beliefs of those who don't agree with you. Did you have to practice very much to get good at such dishonesty?

 

[Solo]

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1 Corinthians 15:20-26

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2 Timothy 1:9-10


For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 1 Peter 3:18

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6

 

[MrVersatile48]

Cue for a song..

a creation psalm inspired by Psalm 19, Job 38-41 & a lovely long drive thru spectacular summer scenery:-

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18462

Appropriate place to recommend the helpful menu @ http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp

As promised, I've brought in their "Revised & Expanded Answers Book" by Drs Ken Ham, Jonathan Sarfati, Carl Wieland, Werner Gitt, John Baumgardner, Russell Humphreys, Len Morris, David Catchpoole & others

On the way here, I read their chapters on Carbon/Radiometric Dating & How We Can See Distant Stars In A Young Universe - (pages 75 & 95)

Here's an amazing menu of online evidence for a young Earth & universe:-:-
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/young.asp



Do hit their website - & the comprehensive 1 @ http://www.creationism.org

& a 2nd menu of articles there - http://www.creationism.org/articles/index.htm

& the ID one @ http://www.discovery.org/csc

Here's their "Top Questions" link:-
http://www.discovery.org/csc/topQuestions.php

i]This 1 may be especially helpful:-[/i]
http://www.discovery.org/csc/topQuestio ... nEvolution


Back after break

God bless!

Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

Prominent evo-loopy biologist Richard Lewontin admitted flagrant bias:-

"We take the side of (evo-loopy) science IN SPITE OF THE PATENT ABSURDITY of some of its constructs, IN SPITE OF ITS FAILURES TO FULFIL MANY OF ITS EXTRAVAGANT PROMISES, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just so stories, because we have an a priori commitment to materialism

"It is not that...science somehow compels us to accept a material explanation...BUT, ON THE CONTRARY, that it was forced on us by our
adherence to material causes to create an apparatus ... that produce material explanations...

"Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, FOR WE CANNOT ALLOW A DIVINE FOOT IN THE DOOR"

See The Revised & Expanded Answers Book - pages 53/54 - for the full quote, as someone earlier on here falsely denied he said any such thing


The 16-page mag - Design Revolution from New Life Publishing, Notts, UK - also has that full quote, & some even more startling admissions by chief evo-loopy Richard (Dorky) Dawkins - who famously wrote to his 10-yr-old daughter to reject anything inadequately supported by evidence

His rampant atheistic philosophy only masquerades as science - as Dr Jonathan Sarfati's Refuting Evolution 2 - thoroughly replying to & correcting the deliberate deceits of US TV's PBS series, "Evolution" - also well demonstrates

Conan & all evo-loopies need to face that "how things actually happened" is that all species were Designer made by the Most Brilliant Brain in the Universe

No 2 snowflakes are identical

No 2 grains of sand are identical

No 2 sets of fingerprints are identical

No 2 leaves are identical

God is ABUNDANTLY creative - see Psalms 19 & 24, Job 38-41, etc

No wonder Romans 1:20 says that, from the clear evidence of creation alone, "men are without excuse"


See The Revised & Expanded Answers Book - pages 53/54 - for the full quote, as someone early on falsely denied he said any such thing

 

[MrVersatile48]

Flagged up by popular demand 8-)

 

[DD_8630]

I’m asking for a brief answer; can you build a building without ground floor? you cannot.

Use scaffolding.

how can you build a theory without explaining the origin of first living organism? Give me a logical answer.

Simple: posit that, ~3.5 billion years ago, simple self-replicating molecules exist. From there, the theory of evolution explains how modern biological diversity could arise.

The evidence tells us that this is indeed what happened. Oh, look at that, I didn't explain the origin of life (in this case, where those simple self-replicating molecules came from). That I'm going to leave to the Abiogenesists.

 

[Guest]

Re:

Prominent evo-loopy biologist Richard Lewontin admitted flagrant bias

The Pope stated that creation and evolution can work together without any conflict, as long as it is maintained that only God can create the human soul. Science makes on claims on the human soul, moreover God did not make people in his one PHYSICAL image, but in his SPIRITUAL image. There is often a misconception about that, people think that God looks like an old, chubby, white man with white beard and white hair (not talking about Santa here). That is quite contradicting with everything that is shown in the Bible: flesh = sin, flesh is a vessel on earth, God is a spirit so anything in his image would be a spirit.