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[_ Old Earth _] Evolution as a Religion

Justice

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Evolution as a Religion

http://www.therealitycheck.org/GuestCol ... 122104.htm

Recently I saw some news segments that featured debate on whether the teaching of Intelligent Design, should be curriculum taught along side of evolution in public school science classes. The individual taking the side of evolution was cornered at one point, regarding the origin of matter itself. He repeated the often heard mantra that the universe and corresponding matter composing it simply have always existed. What a classic example of "blind religious faith", I thought, particularly for someone who persists in characterizing the issue as science versus faith.

The first time that I heard the concept of evolution presented as a religion or philosophy, I snickered at the audacity of such a proposition. But the more I have taken notice of how the arguments are made, the more I see the religious aspects of the evolutionary position.

Let’s draw an imperfect, but illustrative analogy to the position of the atheist above. Suppose I come home from work one day noticing that my neighbor’s long grass has been cut. I say to my wife that my neighbor must have cut the grass with his lawnmower. My wife demurs, saying that the grass cut itself. Are these equivalently sufficient explanations as to how the lawn was cut? In one case we have a purposeful and intelligent agent, using a specific means to accomplish a goal. In the other case, you have an inanimate object acted upon itself without purpose. And notice that the explanation of the neighbor cutting the grass with his lawnmower is meaningful, without any discussion of where the neighbor, lawnmower or the grass came from. In like manner, saying that matter has always existed, is not an equivalent argument to saying that the universe was created by God.

Another canard employed in this debate, is that evolution is "scientific", whereas ID is religious mythology. But does evolution itself qualify as a scientific theory, or like Creationism, is it a metaphysical theory? Anyone who has taken an introductory class in the Philosophy of Science, knows a few basic tenets regarding scientific inquiry. First of all, only observational or naturalistic evidence is accepted. If the inquirer asks a how or why question, then develops a hypothesis, it must be testable, and thus subject to falsification before it can move beyond that point. In which respects can any evolutionary theory meet this test? The evolutionist who says that the "fact"of evolution proves the non-existence of God, must derive such information outside the parameters of empirical scientific methods-- a realm that he claims contains no meaningful truth. Thus, such a claim is that of religious dogmatism. Any masonry regardless of its ornate design or quality composition cannot be stacked four feet in mid air without a solid foundation. Those who claim evolutionary theories can do away with the need for God are attempting to do just that philosophically speaking.

There is also a question of evidence. No evidence is neutral in the sense that it requires no interpretations. Interpretations themselves depend on the assumptions of the interpreter. This, at least in part, accounts for discrepancies of opinion in those who say there are no transitional forms in the fossil record, and those who claim there are many. It seems curious though, that some evolutionists and non-theists, such as Stephen J. Gould and Francis Crick, were not comfortable with the classical Darwinian paradigm of gradual changes via natural selection. Both came up with theories of origin, which made the need for intermediate types a non factor. Why would that be expedient if it were not essential?

But there are logical dilemmas that must be accounted for in any cogent philosophical analysis of theory formation. In Gould’s model of "punctuated equilibrium", we see evolution happening in fits and starts, rather than more gradually. But if adaptations of the species by natural selection (survival of the fittest), to environmental changes, are the catalyst of classic Darwinian theory, what mechanism propels change in Gould’s paradigm? Imagine a group of engineers with the task of making motor vehicles more fuel efficient. They agree that by removing the engine, they will make the vehicle lighter and more aerodynamic, thus accomplishing the objective. But do you suppose that by closing the hood, they can hide the fact, or convince anyone, that the vehicle can be propelled with the energy source removed?

In Crick’s theory, we see the formation of intelligence on earth as a function of a more progression race from outer space (directed panspermia). But this assertion results in an infinite regress that does nothing to eliminate the need for God as the initial uncaused cause. How can Crick’s hypothesis be seen as anything more than a non-theistic version of blind religious faith? Here we see brilliant men willing to run a fool’s errand on a treadmill suspended over a quicksand pit. And for what reason–to rationalize away the existence of God?

Of course I will get many angry replies to what I have said so far. I will be told that I misrepresented these ideas; that I am an idiot; or that my ignorance is neglecting the details and the technical nomenclature of these propositions. And that is generally the way the argument is debated. Either you believe in evolution by default, or else there is no place for you at the table of credibility. There is no objective forum to convey honest skepticism without banishment.

We must also denounce the farce of objectivity. Science is supposed to take you where the evidence leads, and must have a patina of skepticism about it. Yet how many evolutionists are rooting for the universe to be a specific way, namely without an ultimate purpose or meaning. I have noted in previous editorials, statements by either Gould, professor Nagel, and Aldous Huxley, that are steeped in this sort of bias. That is religion and not science.

I don’t believe ID is necessarily science, in the way science has been defined in this piece. ID simply asks the question of whether the data can be best understood according to the presumption that the universe was generated through spontaneous creation. We ought to conduct an investigation to find out. Both evolution and ID are metaphysical theories. If academic freedom is paramount, where one treads, the other should be allowed to follow.
 
If evolution really was an atheistic theory that positively exluded the presense of God, then your argument would be valid. But it's not. Evolution makes no claims about the existence or nonexistence of God---recent surveys posted here show that most believers in evolution are believers in God. Evolution is a scientific theory about how, not why, the universe came about. ID answers the philosophical question of why by positing the presence of God---and it makes no scientific claims and shouldn't be taught alongside evolution.
 
I agree with B3 in that I see no reason to assume that evolution is an "atheistic theory" at least partly designed to exclude the reality of God. My personal opinion is that most people see evolution as entirely compatible with the existence of the Christian God since most people (my opinion - cannt prove this) do not really think the first chapters of Genesis are to be taken literally.

Nevertheless, I do agree that the notion that scientists are truly objective is somewhat naive. Consider the following material that appeared in "First Things" magazine about Richard Dawkins (who believes in the correctness of evolutionary theory):

"Polite concealment of contempt is not a rhetorical mode that one associates with Dawkins. He is much given to invective, not all of it against religion. Here is how he characterizes the thoughts and attitudes of some of his other targets: “caterwauling shrieks,†“low-grade intellectual poodling of pseudo-philosophical poseurs,†“footling debates,†“boorish tenured confidence,†“yahooish complacency,†and “driveling ephemera of juvenile pamphleteers and the old preaching of spiteful hard-liners.†The man, as they say nowadays, has issues."

One thing that I think is important for all to realize is that the same set of facts can be consistent with different theories about how the World works. I believe this is the case with quantum mechanics, for example. I can easily see how "philosophical" inclinations can tilt the balance one way or the other. Perhaps this dynamic is at play in the evolution / creation debate - driving people to one theory or the other while remaining true to the facts (I have my doubts about this however - based on knowing something about cosmology, I am inclined to think that a belief in a young Universe is actually incompatible with the facts, but that's another debate).

In any event, I do think that intelligent design is a legitimate candidate theory for giving an account of the way our world is. I believe it cannot claim to be empirical science, yet it can be reasoned about in a rational way - it is not a "religious" theory in my view. Why not allow the case for Intelligent Design to be presented to students in the classroom?
 
Drew said:
In any event, I do think that intelligent design is a legitimate candidate theory for giving an account of the way our world is. I believe it cannot claim to be empirical science, yet it can be reasoned about in a rational way - it is not a "religious" theory in my view. Why not allow the case for Intelligent Design to be presented to students in the classroom?

How can you test that theory, Drew?
 
Hello Asimov:

Well as I stated, the Intelligent Design theory is not a scientific theory so it could not be directly tested. It's character would be analogous to a theory about who committed a crime - you have a bunch of historical facts and you construct a "theory" to explain those facts. I think the Big Bang theory falls into this category - one cannot "experiment" but one can construct a story that explains the facts.

You may agree with me that multiple theories can explain the same set of facts - I come home to see my house ransacked and two theories come to mind: 1. burglars were there; or 2. My dog went nuts and tore the place apart. Similarly, I can imagine that an Intelligent Design (ID) theory and a completely naturalistic theory could be candidates to explain why we are here. The credibility of the ID theory would be evaluated using conventional rational arguments based on principles of logic and facts we already know about the world. This might be very challenging, but it does not seem impossible.

I have run out of time, but intend to say more later. One thing I will say - one needs to bear in mind that although 2 different theories can explain and be consistent with the same set of facts, but they may not be equally plausible. Let's say Mrs. X is found murdered. Her husband's prints are on the gun, he has a motive, her blood is found on his clothes, he has no alibi, he has threatened her in the past, etc. One theory: He did it. Another theory: he has been framed by someone else. The first theory seems better.
 
Drew said:
Hello Asimov:

Well as I stated, the Intelligent Design theory is not a scientific theory so it could not be directly tested.

Full-stop.

If it is not a scientific theory, then it shouldn't be taught as science.
 
Similarly, I can imagine that an Intelligent Design (ID) theory and a completely naturalistic theory could be candidates to explain why we are here.

I agree...it is a candidate....however

"Why" we are here is a topic beyond the realm of a science.

"How" we are here is indeed a topic for grade school education, as it explains the fundamental mechanisms we can still see today.

ID is a "why" argument, and doesn't belong.
 
Greeting Asimov and ThinkerMan:

I believe that I have never represented ID as a scientific theory. On my understanding, in order to qualify as a scientific theory, testable experiments with the possibility of falsification need to be run. On such a view, cosmology (e.g. the Big Bang) is not strictly a scientific theory either - even though there is a lot of observable evidence for it, it is an event that lies in the past and cannot be reproduced.

Perhaps you will argue that my definition of "science" is too restrictve - maybe you will say something like "The Big Bang theory predicts that such and such observation is expected (for example a background radiation of a certain level)" and that if the expected result is found, then we are doing science even though we are looking at "historical" information".

I sense that both of you may think that ID is a concept that cannot be "tested" (in any sense of the word- not just by doing experiments), cannot be evaluated in terms of its consistency with other things that we know etc. My intuition is otherwise - ID is a legitimate theory about "how" we got here. And I do not use the word "how" loosely. I do not think ID is purely a "why" theory.

ID is just like a theory that a man found dead at the bottom of a cliff was murdered, and did not fall by accident. In one sense the "how" is the same for both theories - his body hit the ground at high speed and he died. In another sense the "how" is different. I think I know some of the objections you may have to this, but I will wait for you to actually make them.

If time permits, I hope to think out my intuitions and post a "defence" for them.
 
Evolution as a Religion

I disagree with this. I think, however, that it may be used or manipulated by certain "religious" movements, such as atheism or secular humanism. What I mean is that "Godless religions" can use evolutionary theories and ideas to 'remove God' even though that is not the purpose of evolutionary theory itself....
 
Darck Marck said:
Evolution as a Religion

I disagree with this. I think, however, that it may be used or manipulated by certain "religious" movements, such as atheism or secular humanism. What I mean is that "Godless religions" can use evolutionary theories and ideas to 'remove God' even though that is not the purpose of evolutionary theory itself....

Atheism isn't a religion, it has no doctrine, or spiritual leaders.
 
Atheism isn't a religion, it has no doctrine, or spiritual leaders.

My observation is that many atheists narrowly avoid "doctrine" by not "coming out" and saying that they absolutely beleive that God does not exist. Rather, the typical atheist takes on "weak atheism"(if I recall right), a beleif similar to agnostic idea.

And by the way, it is kind of difficult for a religion to have spiritual leaders, if the religion does not embrace spiritual matters to begin with....


Marck
 
Darck Marck said:
Atheism isn't a religion, it has no doctrine, or spiritual leaders.

My observation is that many atheists narrowly avoid "doctrine" by not "coming out" and saying that they absolutely beleive that God does not exist. Rather, the typical atheist takes on "weak atheism"(if I recall right), a beleif similar to agnostic idea.

And by the way, it is kind of difficult for a religion to have spiritual leaders, if the religion does not embrace spiritual matters to begin with....


Marck

Personally, I think weak atheism is a much more tenable position than strong.

You may find it weak for me not to "come out" and say "there is no god", but I have no proof of that. All I have is a lack of proof, or reason, to believe in god.

Similar to me saying I do not believe Chuck Swanson from Buffalo is a great pool player. I have no proof that he exists, can play pool or, or goes by Charles. No one has shown me evidence of any of that, so it is a valid statement.

It would be illogical, however, for me to say definately that Chuck Swanson from Buffalo is NOT a great pool player, since I have no proof to support that statement.
 
No one claims that they have proof of God existing either, but atheists are the ones who demand proof of God from theists. Theists asking atheists for proof is "wrong" even though neither side claims they can prove their position.


Marck
 
As stated elsewhere, I believe that the Intelligent Design theory is a very difficult topic fraught with subtleties. Consequently, please consider this to be a “starter post†on the subject. My intuition tells me that ID is a strong theory, but I may change my mind as I think on the fly (as I will be doing in what follows).

What do we mean when we say that the Universe was “designedâ€Â? Well, the stock answer is that an intelligent being (such as the Christian God) created the universe and that the universe bears the imprint of this intelligence. Seems simple enough of an idea. But what is it about a “thing†in our universe (whether it is a human eye, a galaxy, the somewhat intangible entity known as spacetime, or even a law of nature) that would reasonably cause us to conclude it was designed? How would the “intelligence†of the creative agent be made manifest? Is there any property or feature of a thing that indicates design? I am initially inclined to think that the answer to this is “noâ€Â, at least not directly – there is nothing inherent in a thing, no measurable property that can allow us to conclude it was designed, without bringing other considerations to bear. God simply has not written “made by God†on anything in this Universe.

Let’s say my garage is full of car parts – all the parts necessary to build a car. I come home from a 2 week business trip to find a fully assembled car in my garage. I quite naturally conclude that someone entered my garage and through the application of directed actions, has constructed a car.

It is of course theoretically possible that a series of violent earthquakes (remember I am out of town on a business trip) have caused the car parts to “jump†into the correct spatial relationships to one another and form a car. But I discount this possibility as being remote beyond consideration. Why? Because there are so many countless ways they could have oriented themselves and only 1 that produces a car. Beside, how many earthquakes can there have been in 2 weeks?

It is this directedness, the fact that each car has wound up in just the right place at just the right time (when there are so many ways that it could have been otherwise, especially under the 2 week time constraint) that leads me to consider intelligent design in respect to explaining the presence of the car. Of course, there is a still a lot of work to do to support such a case. After all, the directedness could ultimately have turned out to be logically necessary – perhaps the universe had “no choice†but to cause just the right series of earthquakes. No design would then be needed. The possibility of such logical necessity may seem silly in the car analogy, but it is less so (I think) when we look at the Universe.

There are problems with this analogy. After all, I know that other human beings capable of building cars do exist and could have entered my garage. Things are not as simple with the issue of a creative “god†and the universe – positing his existence is not without the cost of needing to give some account of his existence.

I think any conclusion favourable to intelligent design will be tied to what I will call “degrees of freedom to be otherwiseâ€Â. The more degrees of freedom there are for the universe to be otherwise than it actually is (with special importance ascribed to the constraints of time - the universe has only been here for about 15 billion years), the more plausible intelligen design becomes (assuming that the alternative is a universe ruled by randomness and / or laws that were not themselves “created†by an intelligent being).
 
I would like to address one of the issues associated with a discussion about Intelligent Design (ID): that of the “selective observer effectâ€Â. As we look at our universe and see structures of great organizational complexity and rich functionality, it would be quite natural to suppose that they were in some sense “designedâ€Â. However, any kind of reasonably sophisticated approach to the ID question must deal with the question as to what are the necessary conditions for the mere existence of intelligent observers in some universe, and whether these conditions might provide a more “naturalistic†type explanation for the appearance of design.

The essence of the “selective observer effect†is that the only kind of universe an intelligent observer will ever get to see is one that has the built-in potential for the evolution of complex structures. Dull, boring universes will simply never be observed since intelligent life, which would seem to require complex organization to even exist in the first place, would never evolve in such a universe.

So what is the point? Well I am not sure (yet anyway). This is just a point that should be kept in mind when dealing with the ID question. For the present, I will speculate as follows. Suppose that zillions of universe pop into existence all the time, each with its “initial conditions†set randomly. Given what we do know about our one Universe, how things had to be “just so†for us to have evolved (defending this claim is a whole other discussion), we have to be aware of the possibility that zillions of other universe might exist (or have existed or will exist) with no intelligent life in them at all (due to their initial conditions not allowing for the evolution of intelligent life).

Out of all the universes, ours might be the only one with intelligent life – life that will naturally marvel at the complexity of this one “special†universe. And yet one could argue that the observers in our universe (i.e. us) are no more warranted invoking design as an explanation for observed complexity than a lottery winner is justified in claiming his win must be a miracle. After all, somebody has to win a lottery. In the same way, perhaps our universe just “got lucky†with its initial conditions. In the universes that did not get lucky, no observers arise to lament this fact.

There is a lot more that can be said…..
 
Drew:

Your explanation tends to be what I believe, essentially the anthropic princple.

In a universe where gravity is inversely proportional to the CUBE of the distance between two objects, life is impossible.

In a solar system where planets have not water, life is likely impossible.

On a planet that has no moon, intellegent life is much more unlikely.

Our universe does seem "find-tuned" to life, as does our planet. But we can only make that observation from THIS planet in THIS universe.

It's similar to asking why human didn't emerge at the north pole. Why did human beings evolve from near the equator? Were they placed there by God because that's where all the food is and better suited to the human's ability to live there? If the equatorial region is so "fine tuned" to the emergence of intellegent humans, than can only God have created the such a "perfect" climate to other areas of earth?

Not at all. Simple physics and science and meteorology says you will have varying climates along different latitudes, and such variation can be quite easily explaned and observed on various other planets, without any supernatural assistance.

Humans emerged there because the properties of that climate were the only place (generally) that humans could have emerged. All the intellegent life that TRIED to emerge at the north and south poles never could have made it.

Just as we are a product of a climatic region that was conducive to intelligent life arising, so too are we a product of a planet conducive to life, and a universe conducive to complex structures.
 
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