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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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[__ Science __ ] Evolution Is a Scientific Law?
- Thread starter AIG.com
- Start date
Evolution belief leads to E.T. thinking.
Some evolution believers at NASA are wasting taxpayer money in futile pursuit of aliens. If only they believed Genesis....
I seriously hope you are right.
If that's true, this doesn't change the fact that their evolution-based origins tales still are.
Barbarian
Member
Atheism can't be taught in public schools
There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species
And if it turns out that there are other beings on other worlds, would it destroy your faith in God? I can't imagine why.
The same First Amendment that protects kids from being indoctrinated by theists, protects them from being indoctrinated by atheists (or agnostics, I suppose).
Actually, Darwin was a theist, who attributed the origin of life to God.
There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species
And if it turns out that there are other beings on other worlds, would it destroy your faith in God? I can't imagine why.
Barbarian
Member
He was a theist, at least when He wrote On the Origin of Species. He ends it by saying that God created the first living things.
And in The Voyage of the Beagle, he mentions that the officers of the ship kidded him about his very orthodox Anglican ideas. Do you think Anglicans are Christians?
Inerrancy is a modern error. I don't think Christians of his time had heard of it. As late as the 1940s, most creationists were OE.
Well, transcribers can. And do.
Few Christians are confused by His word. Some might not be ready to accept it as it is, but that's not God's fault.
I'll let this speak for itself.
You should probably know that there is very good evidence that a great regional flood drowned a huge area in the Middle East about the right time to be Noah's flood. But even if it was an allegory, Peter repeating it, would not convert it into an actual event.
The 1st amendment refers to government, right?
This doesn't address what you quoted.
There are almost certainly no sentient biological extraterrstrial beings.
And no.
But did he believe in Jesus' Resurrection and Divinity? The Trinity doctrine?
SDA's are thiests, too.
Why?
One jot or one tittle remind you?
Yes, and the Bible says that mens hearts will grow cold.
Before 1800's, OE beliefs were not so widespread.
Back then, more people allowed for God. The Biblical God. The further time moves on, it seems, men chase after sin more and more.
It's no surprise that they would also be easier to be led into false ideas like OE more and more, too.
I know the YEC's aren't confused by Genesis.
Mabye your side solves the problem by just not giving it much thought.
Ever considered that if Genesis is allegory, NOTHING contradicts it? How can things not stated as facts contradict anything?
The flood was global. Obviously that area was included.
Just because your favorite plot of land to post about, got flooded along with the rest of Earth, doesn't make the flood non-global.
Barbarian
Member
It refers to freedoms. I suppose you could go at it backwards and say that it puts limits on government.
Actually, Darwin was a theist, who attributed the origin of life to God.
There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species
Sure seems like it.
"Almost certainly?"
And they invented YE creationism. But I don't see the point. Darwin did admit (in The Voyage of the Beagle) that the officers of the ship kidded him about his orthodox Anglican beliefs.
Inerrancy is a modern error.
More specifically, the doctrine that anything mentioned in scripture must be true, regardless of it's application to the point of the text, is in error. The
For example, Jesus says that a mustard seed is the smallest seed. It's not even close to being the smallest seed.
AIG tries to dodge this issue by saying "maybe it was different back then." They are focusing on everything but what Jesus was telling us.
A more realistic view of inerrancy is:
The books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings for the sake of salvation.
The size of seeds and how much land was flooded in the time of Noah is not for the sake of salvation.
God invented the YEC position by inspiring the Bible. Not "they", unless you're promoting polythiesm.
Also, see other thread.
Not the smallest seed ever. But the smallest seed an average farmer had.
/edit**This quote, not your whollle post.
Barbarian
Member
Evolution is not merely a scientific law. Even a reasonably bright middle school student will tell you that Darwin's theory is not a law.
A law predicts what will happen under given circumstances, without explaining why.
A theory predicts and explains what will happen under given circumstances.
Hence Newton's laws of motion, but Newton's theory of gravitation. Newton doesn't explain why motion is as it is, but he does explain why gravitation works as it does.
Since Darwin's theory predicts and explains evolution, it is a scientific theory, not merely a law.
Another important element of a theory is that it must make predictions that have been tested and verified. So Darwin's four predictions have been repeatedly verified, as have Newton's predictions of the way gravitation works.
But theories are never absolutely the truth. Turns out, Newton's theory wasn't the whole story. Even though it remains true that we can use Newton's theory to navigate the solar system, there are some truths about gravity that are not in his theory. Likewise, while Darwin's theory of evolution remains true and it can be used to make useful predictions about how populations change, there are some things that are true about evolution that are not in his theory.
Both evolutionary theory and gravitational theory have been revised and improved since they were first proposed.
Laymen often fail to understand what "law" and "theory" actually mean. Often with amusing results as occured this time.
A law predicts what will happen under given circumstances, without explaining why.
A theory predicts and explains what will happen under given circumstances.
Hence Newton's laws of motion, but Newton's theory of gravitation. Newton doesn't explain why motion is as it is, but he does explain why gravitation works as it does.
Since Darwin's theory predicts and explains evolution, it is a scientific theory, not merely a law.
Another important element of a theory is that it must make predictions that have been tested and verified. So Darwin's four predictions have been repeatedly verified, as have Newton's predictions of the way gravitation works.
But theories are never absolutely the truth. Turns out, Newton's theory wasn't the whole story. Even though it remains true that we can use Newton's theory to navigate the solar system, there are some truths about gravity that are not in his theory. Likewise, while Darwin's theory of evolution remains true and it can be used to make useful predictions about how populations change, there are some things that are true about evolution that are not in his theory.
Both evolutionary theory and gravitational theory have been revised and improved since they were first proposed.
Laymen often fail to understand what "law" and "theory" actually mean. Often with amusing results as occured this time.
Do you think evolution involves the origin of life?
Could you introduce facts to support your
" futile" statement?
And some facts to encourage belief in a literal
reading of genesis re origin of life?
Slight disagreement. A theory may very well
be true in every detail.
I think you may mean proven to be true.
As to the confusion about law/ theory, it would
be a terrific help all around if say 5 or,10 minutes
were spent on google.
Barbarian
Member
In principle. But historically, they pretty much all had to be modified as evidence accumulated.
Yep.
"
The Australian Aboriginal people (like other cultures around the world) had legends passed down from their ancestors. And many of these legends sound like one is reading Genesis 1–11. They have legends about a global flood, three sons on a raft, a rainbow at the end of the flood, and many other elements similar to the Genesis flood account. They also have legends about a forbidden tree and that the first woman tasted some honey from the tree and death came into the world. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?There are flood legends in cultures all over the world. We have an exhibit on such flood legends on the third deck of the Ark at the
@AiG
Ark Encounter attraction
@arkencounter
.When I went to university, I had a professor who said that the Jews had stories about a flood like the Babylonians. He claimed that it’s obvious the Jews borrowed their stories from the Babylonians. Many seminary professors sadly also teach this secular view of history.But this doesn’t make logical sense, and it certainly doesn’t make biblical sense!If one reads the Babylonian stories, they sound fanciful and not real. But when one reads the Genesis account, it reads as real history with a ship with dimensions that make sense! I would say the Babylonian account is a perversion of the original account which is preserved in Scripture.As people increased on the earth after the flood, they went through an event called the tower of Babel. God judged by giving different languages because of their rebellion, so people then dispersed over the earth. They took the account of the flood and other events about creation and the fall and, over the years, changed them to become the fanciful legends that abound in people groups over the earth. But God has preserved the true record of the Flood and creation account in His Word in Genesis.
"
x.com/aigkenham/status/1836712850217140643?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
The Australian Aboriginal people (like other cultures around the world) had legends passed down from their ancestors. And many of these legends sound like one is reading Genesis 1–11. They have legends about a global flood, three sons on a raft, a rainbow at the end of the flood, and many other elements similar to the Genesis flood account. They also have legends about a forbidden tree and that the first woman tasted some honey from the tree and death came into the world. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?There are flood legends in cultures all over the world. We have an exhibit on such flood legends on the third deck of the Ark at the
@AiG
Ark Encounter attraction
@arkencounter
.When I went to university, I had a professor who said that the Jews had stories about a flood like the Babylonians. He claimed that it’s obvious the Jews borrowed their stories from the Babylonians. Many seminary professors sadly also teach this secular view of history.But this doesn’t make logical sense, and it certainly doesn’t make biblical sense!If one reads the Babylonian stories, they sound fanciful and not real. But when one reads the Genesis account, it reads as real history with a ship with dimensions that make sense! I would say the Babylonian account is a perversion of the original account which is preserved in Scripture.As people increased on the earth after the flood, they went through an event called the tower of Babel. God judged by giving different languages because of their rebellion, so people then dispersed over the earth. They took the account of the flood and other events about creation and the fall and, over the years, changed them to become the fanciful legends that abound in people groups over the earth. But God has preserved the true record of the Flood and creation account in His Word in Genesis.
"
x.com/aigkenham/status/1836712850217140643?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Science - and things labelled as it - change all the time. Evolutionary stories, most of which are cooked up by nonBelievers, change a lot and get replaced with different stories. God is not the Author of chaos. K2KE is very chaotic so why would God author a chaotic process?
K2KE involves much more than alleles. If i change around the parts of a house will it one day turn into a plane??
God does not change and the Biblical Ark truth and 6-day creation truth will not change. The Biblical text will always say what it has said, it will not change like K2KE and deep time theories which must be revised.
Barbarian
Member
Newton's theory of gravitation, for example. NASA still uses it to navigate the solar system. But it's not exactly right; relativity refined the theory and made it more accurate. That's how science works. It refines theories, making them more accurate.
This probably seems like cheating to YE creationists, who are locked into their doctrines, even when they turn out to be wrong.
Actually, Darwin thought God was the Creator, and said so in his book. Your belief is one of the stranger YE superstitions.
Actually, there is order in chaos.
Finding Order in Chaos - Math! Science! History!
As we enter into the month of April, we approach the birthday of one of the greatest mathematicians to contribute to this concept of chaos. read more
mathsciencehistory.com
Having an interest in animal populations, I spent some time investigating chaos theory. It's not what you think it is. Since science has discovered that evolutionary processes can solve problems too complicated for design,it's just another case of God being wiser than humans.
If so, it has nothing to do with evolution or evolutionary theory. Evolution is merely the change in allele frequencies in a population.
Everything else is a consquence of that.
Could be. It would be possible, using the stuff in most houses, to build an airplane. But repurposing human artifacts to different uses, has nothing to do with biological evolution.
But people often change His word to something more acceptable to them. Which is the basis of YE creationism.
Barbarian
Member
Lots of flood legends. Either there was one great flood, or there have been a lot of big floods in different parts of the world over human history.
One of those.
Large regional floods were a common problem in Mesoptamia. Early man encountered a massive regional flood that produced the Black Sea. So it's not surprising that people would incorporate that into their cultural ideas.
The takeaway for a Christian is that to focus on the details of the flood story is to miss the lesson God is giving us.
It's about man's evil and God's cleansing.
It's about His mercy and protection.
It's about renewal after the cleansing.
Get that, and you've got what He wanted to tell you.
How much gravity has changed is nothing compared to how much even one component of the Athiest Triad has. Deeptime, Evo of the K2K variety, and BigBangism.
Do facts change? Do you think believing that Jesus resurrected is being 'locked in'? It is, as God is our Rock, not our sand dune. K2KE is built on a Sand Dune. YEC is on the strong Rock.
K2KE never claims to be from the Bible. But Genesis emnates YEC truth. We call it YEC to emphasize WHAT specific Bible truth it is.
Ever since you showed me Darwin may have been an Anglican, I'm referring to other people when i say 'athiests'. Can you keep up?
DAWKins -
Dawkins proves that K2KE is a cornerstone belief for athiests. Not YEC, as you may think.
So why does the Bible say that God is not the Author of confusion?Actually, there is order in chaos.
Finding Order in Chaos - Math! Science! History!
As we enter into the month of April, we approach the birthday of one of the greatest mathematicians to contribute to this concept of chaos. read more
This does not prove that K2KE is anywhat orderly.
God is Omniscient. He never has problems with Design. He has no need to do the planning part, or any of the previous parts of 'design', He goes straight to creating. He says it, and it is.
So God has no need for trial and error. He knows the best solution. He is not so weak/non-knowledgable that He needs algorithms to know what to make. The best animals God made were the ones made on creation week.
God rested on the 7th day. Animals are now made by the processes God put in place.
100% of animals after the fall are inferior to their ancestors pre-fall.
Elephants in Adam n eve time would annihilate today's elephants in any and every competition. It's what we would expect, yes?
Then you admit that families can't change just because certain areas on PRE EXISTING genes do.
The basis of allegorism.
The general text screams "HISTORY". But i notice you had to nitpick at random details to "prove" allegory.
Now who is changing.
Barbarian
Member
Seriously?
Radical new theory finally unites gravity, spacetime, and the quantum realm
Physicists have presented a radical theory that unifies the realms of gravity and quantum mechanics while preserving Einstein's spacetime.
You probably didn't know that each of these was proposed by a theist. Two of them by men who had trained for Christian ministry, one of whom actually was a Christian clergyman.
An even deeper irony is that the Big Bang was most ferociously attacked by an atheist (Fred Hoyle) who was upset because it implied a Creation.
The theory of gravitation, BTW, was proposed by a man who denied that Jesus is God.
In 325 the Council of Nicea condemned as heretical the views of Arius. Thus, as viewed by Newton, Athanasius triumphed over Arius in imposing the false doctrine of the trinity on Christianity.
Newton further asserted that, in order to support trinitarianism, the Church deliberately corrupted the Bible by modifying crucial texts. For example, Newton claimed that the well-known words of I John 5:7 (”there are three that bear record in heaven, the father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one”) were not in the original, pre-4th century Bible (Newton, it seems, was not a King James only man). Newton writes that “the Fathers…preferred to desert the Scriptures than not to condemn Arius”. Soon thereafter a universal corruption of Christianity followed the central corruption of doctrine: in the 4th century trinitarianism fouled every element of Christianity.
Newton's anti-trinitarianism is evident also in his interpretation of Revelation. According to Newton, the seventh seal began in the year 380, when trinitarianism was officially ratified at the Council of Constantinople. The great apostasy was not Romanism, but trinitarianism, “the false infernal religion”, to quote Newton's own words.
What was Isaac Newton's view of the Trinity?
The Trinity is a complex topic and I know Isaac Newton studied deep into it, and that his views were somewhat contrary to mainstream doctrines taught today. So I was curious what his view is, and w...
christianity.stackexchange.com
You really got those backwards.
Our understanding of them changes.
No, he merely expressed an opinion. Physics is a cornerstone belief for atheists, too. But evolution and physics are real phenomena.
Actually, there is order in chaos.
Because order is the opposite of confusion.
Finding Order in Chaos - Math! Science! History!
As we enter into the month of April, we approach the birthday of one of the greatest mathematicians to contribute to this concept of chaos. read more
mathsciencehistory.com
Don't insist that God is limited to things humans can understand.
Having an interest in animal populations, I spent some time investigating chaos theory. It's not what you think it is. Since science has discovered that evolutionary processes can solve problems too complicated for design,it's just another case of God being wiser than humans.
Never uses it. Never needs to. Omniscience means that one never has to figure things out. Which is what "design" is. God can even use contingency to His purposes, being omniscient.
It just works more efficiently than design. Which is why engineers are now copying His processes. God could have done things in other ways, if He chose. He seems to like elegance in His creation.
Since the text itself says the days aren't literal ones, there's no reason to think so.
No evidence for that. Just someone's addition to the Bible to make it more acceptable to them.
Evolution is merely the change in allele frequencies in a population. That and natural selection are all that is required for common descent.
What genes do you think can't change, and what is your evidence for this? As you know, the DNA of living organisms nicely sorts out to the same family tree as we get by looking at anatomy and physiology.
And we see new genes arising by gene duplication or by mutation of non-coding DNA.
But people often change His word to something more acceptable to them. Which is the basis of YE creationism.
A lot of it is allegory, poetry, philosophy, etc.
A lot of it is history. But no one thinks it all is.
If I want to show that some of it is figurative, I'll be required to show a figurative passage.
That's how it works.
The people who want it to be all history.
Because order is the opposite of confusion.
Finding Order in Chaos - Math! Science! History!
As we enter into the month of April, we approach the birthday of one of the greatest mathematicians to contribute to this concept of chaos. read more
Then the YEC view is true. You may not understand how God packed enough info for every animal into the original ancestors to diversify, and even be extrapolated into the radical K2KE-type evolution. "Genes change so therefore the animal's genes could ultimately change by themselves into something totally different over a span of time!" Well for that you'll need LOTS of DNA and probably also RNA insertions and subsitutions to do such. And you need ALL or ALMOST ALL THE RIGHT ONES. Unlucky ones could kill and/or mangle the lifeform.
How many of these types would you think are needed for a dino populous to give rise to some birds? 100K's of base pairs? Millions of base pairs? Billions?
And you can't understand why calculating from the Biblical records gives ~6K years of physical realm's existence. You think the man made assumption-ridden dating methods and their "backup" like isochron dating or whatever, which operate from most of the same assumptions, so its a form of circular reasoning) are correct.
"Death and disease are present today so therefore they always existed" is something people think they understand is true. But the Bible debunks that limited understanding.
How much?
If you want to get someone to believe you are right on absolutely all your statements of fact, you don't introduce yourself by trying to woo someone with a story with a message. Especially if there is no message, and people can attach any message they wish onto it. Oh no; you begin by telling of things that actually happened.
This is not relevant since I didn't say/imply that all of the Bible was literal. All means all .