Examining Jehovah's Witnesses

[Beetow]

.
FAQ: How is it that conventional Christians interpret Luke 23:43 to mean that Jesus
would be in paradise the very day of his death when three days later he informed
Mary Magdalena that he had not yet ascended to his Father? (John 20:17)

REPLY: Well, of one thing we can be very certain: when Jesus died, he didn't go up--
quite the opposite --he went down. (Matt 12:40, Ps 16:9-10, and Acts 2:25-31)

FAQ: Paradise is located in the netherworld?

REPLY: It's translated from a Greek word pertaining to parks, e.g. New York City's
central park, et al.

However; paradise isn't just one park, rather, a system of parks. There's one in the
netherworld (Matt 12:40, Luke 16:19-31) another in a celestial region that Paul
labeled the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4) and yet another located with God. (Rev 2:7)
_

 

[tigger II]

.
FAQ: How is it that conventional Christians interpret Luke 23:43 to mean that Jesus
would be in paradise the very day of his death when three days later he informed
Mary Magdalena that he had not yet ascended to his Father? (John 20:17)

REPLY: Well, of one thing we can be very certain: when Jesus died, he didn't go up--
quite the opposite --he went down. (Matt 12:40, Ps 16:9-10, and Acts 2:25-31)

FAQ: Paradise is located in the netherworld?

REPLY: It's translated from a Greek word pertaining to parks, e.g. New York City's
central park, et al.

However; paradise isn't just one park, rather, a system of parks. There's one in the
netherworld (Matt 12:40, Luke 16:19-31) another in a celestial region that Paul
labeled the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4) and yet another located with God. (Rev 2:7)
_

............................................
A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by E.W.Bullinger, DD., page 811 says:

"'And Jesus said to him, Verily, to thee I say this day, with Me shalt thou be in the Paradise.' The words today being made solemn and emphatic. Thus, instead of a remembrance, when He shall come in... His kingdom, He promises a presence in association (meta, 'with') Himself. And this promise he makes on that very day when he was dying.... Thus we are saved (1) the trouble of explaining why Jesus did not answer the question on its own terms; and (2) the inconvenience of endorsing the punctuation of the [KJV] as inspired; and we also place this passage in harmony with numberless passages in the O.T., such as 'Verily I say unto you this day,' etc.; 'I testify unto you this day.' etc. Deut.vi.6; vii.1; x.13; xi.8;,13,23; xii.13; xix.9; xxvii.4; xxxi.2, etc., where the Septuagint corresponds to Luke xxii.43."

Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, “I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”

 

[Beetow]

Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, “I tell you today, You will be
with me in Paradise.”

To my knowledge, none of the ancient Greek manuscripts are punctuated, which
means that the manner in which English translations are punctuated is entirely
arbitrary.

With that in mind, here's Luke 23:43 verbatim from the Watchtower Bible and Tract
Society's Kingdom Interlinear translation of the Greek Scriptures, ©1969

And he said to him Amen to you I am saying today with me you will be in the
Paradise.

Now watch as I take the liberty to arbitrarily insert some punctuation.

And he said to him "Amen, to you I am saying; today with me you will be in the
Paradise."

So the question is: whose arbitrary punctuation is correct? mine or the Society's?
We'll just have to wait and see, won't we? Caveat Lector.
_

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Beetow,

Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, “I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”

And he said to him "Amen, to you I am saying; today with me you will be in the
Paradise."

So the question is: whose arbitrary punctuation is correct? mine or the Society's?
We'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

I am happy to endorse Bullinger's rendition, and this makes sense in response to the actual request by the thief:
Luke 23:39–43 (KJV adjusted): 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
Refer also the marginal notes of the Companion Bible. Your view is based on immortal souls that go to heaven (not the paradise here) at death, and we will not need to wait to reject and refute this erroneous doctrine. Jesus taught the resurrection of the faithful when he returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth, Paradise restored.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Beetow]

.
According to 2Tim 3:16, Solomon was inspired to write Ecclesiastes, but the catch
is: his comments essentially represent a thinking man's world view rather than a
book of either history, revelation, or prophecy.

In other words: Solomon's observations are restricted to the scope of reason, logic,
empirical evidence, and human experience, i.e. a perception of reality moderated
by what we can see for ourselves going on around us in the natural rather than the
supernatural-- which is at least one of the reasons why Ecclesiastes appeals to
cultists, atheists, and agnostics, et al.

Solomon's world view is punctuated with pessimism; which is basically a mindset
inclined to dwell on the negative in life rather than the positive. For example:

You only go around once, so do it with all the gusto you can get!

That was a Schlitz beer slogan some years ago. It's worldly wisdom thru and thru
rather than heavenly wisdom. Compare it with a couple of Solomon's remarks:

● Ecc 9:5 . . The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they
are conscious of nothing at all.

● Ecc 9:10 . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is
no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you
are going.

That wisdom is compatible with Schlitz beer wisdom, viz: it's earthly wisdom rather
than the wisdom that comes from above.

Solomon was a very wise man, in point of fact: the brightest intellectual of his day.
But Solomon didn't know everything there is to know, nor had he seen everything
there is to see, nor been everywhere there is to go. Solomon's knowledge was
incomplete, whereas Christ's knowledge is unlimited.

● Col 2:3 . . Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of
knowledge.

So then, it's to be expected that Christ would have more to tell about the afterlife
than Ecclesiastes.

A good rule of thumb to apply when Solomon's wisdom and Jesus' wisdom
contradict each other, is to keep in mind that Jesus is Solomon's superior, viz:
Jesus' thoughts trump Solomon's.

● Matt 12:42 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment with this
generation and will condemn it; because she came from the ends of the earth to
hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look! something more than Solomon is here.

● John 3:31 . . He that comes from above is over all others.

And Jesus comes highly recommended too.

● Matt 17:5 . . This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him.

So then, when encountering remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes that are out of step
with Jesus' teachings in the New Testament; my unsolicited spiritual counseling is
to marginalize Solomon's earthly views of the afterlife and go with the heavenly
views of "my Son" because his is the final word.

● John 8:12 . . I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no means
walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.

● Heb 1:1-2 . . God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to
our forefathers by means of the prophets, has at the end of these days spoken to
us by means of a Son.
_

 

[Free]

............................................
A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by E.W.Bullinger, DD., page 811 says:

"'And Jesus said to him, Verily, to thee I say this day, with Me shalt thou be in the Paradise.' The words today being made solemn and emphatic. Thus, instead of a remembrance, when He shall come in... His kingdom, He promises a presence in association (meta, 'with') Himself. And this promise he makes on that very day when he was dying.... Thus we are saved (1) the trouble of explaining why Jesus did not answer the question on its own terms; and (2) the inconvenience of endorsing the punctuation of the [KJV] as inspired; and we also place this passage in harmony with numberless passages in the O.T., such as 'Verily I say unto you this day,' etc.; 'I testify unto you this day.' etc. Deut.vi.6; vii.1; x.13; xi.8;,13,23; xii.13; xix.9; xxvii.4; xxxi.2, etc., where the Septuagint corresponds to Luke xxii.43."

Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, “I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”

I am happy to endorse Bullinger's rendition, and this makes sense in response to the actual request by the thief:
Luke 23:39–43 (KJV adjusted): 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
Refer also the marginal notes of the Companion Bible. Your view is based on immortal souls that go to heaven (not the paradise here) at death, and we will not need to wait to reject and refute this erroneous doctrine. Jesus taught the resurrection of the faithful when he returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth, Paradise restored.

And, yet, there is as much reason, if not more, for the rendering "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise." The simple reason is context--they were both about to die that day. More than that, while something similar may have been stated in the OT, Jesus himself only uses it that one time--where he says "I say to you" along with "today"--and that is the more immediate and relevant context. It is the only time in the gospels, out of 87. Those are not all unique instances, but Matthew alone has 36 and does not include the instance on the cross.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Free,

And, yet, there is as much reason, if not more, for the rendering "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise." The simple reason is context--they were both about to die that day.

I endorse Bullinger's rendition for two main reasons, context and doctrinal. Yes, I agree that they were both about to die, but this does not give much weight to determine which of the two views is relevant or correct.

Looking again at what the thief actually says:
Luke 23:40–42 (KJV): 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
v41: this man hath done nothing amiss The thief recognises the unique spotless character of Jesus, and in so saying he is acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah, and that through him there would be reconciliation and forgiveness of sins.
v42: Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom The thief acknowledged Jesus as Lord, a title for the Messiah. The thief not only recognised the sacrifice of Christ, but he believed that Jesus would be raised from the dead and in the future return to the earth and establish his kingdom upon the earth. He believed that at that time Jesus would raise the dead and reward the faithful with everlasting life. The thief knew that he would die, and his only hope was to be among those faithful when Jesus returns. His question then is to be remembered by Jesus in the day of Jesus' return.

Jesus' answer is in direct response to the thief, and consistent with the beliefs of the thief:
Luke 23:43 (KJV adjusted): And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
Jesus does not introduce a new concept, a new doctrine, but directly answers the thief's question. Yes, he will have part in the future Kingdom, he will be in Paradise. But the thief would not die having this as a possibility. He did not have to wait for a final decision at the return of Jesus. Jesus gave the decision, then and there, "To day". The thief would die having this extreme comforting thought, that he will be welcomed into the Kingdom, Paradise.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Beetow]

.
The passage below from the Watchtower Society's New World Translation ©1961 is
deliberately misquoted. Watch for the revision.

● Ps 146:3-4 . . Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to
whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that
day he loses awareness.

The actual passage says "his thoughts do perish" which is quite a bit different than
losing awareness.

The Hebrew word for "thoughts" in that passage basically pertains to thinking.
Unfortunately, Ps 146:4 is the only place in the entire old testament where that
Hebrew word appears so we can't compare its uses in other contexts.

According to Webster's the word "thinking" is ambiguous with quite a variety of
meanings to choose from; including, but not limited to: concerns, anticipations,
conceptions, opinions, imaginations, visualizations, ideas, epiphanies, plans,
schemes, fantasies, arguments, aspirations, deliberations, and the like.

For the rich man in Jesus' parable at Luke 12:16-20; I would choose ideas, plans,
and schemes.

" I will say to my soul: Soul, you have many good things laid up for many years;
take your ease, eat, drink, enjoy yourself. But God said to him: Unreasonable one,
this night they are demanding your soul from you. Who, then, is to have the things
you stored up? "

For a contemporary example: consider all those people who perished in the World
Trade Center, and in the Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake.
It's likely that of those folks started their day planning on it being their last on
earth. No, on the contrary; they had people to see, places to go, and things to do:
but before those days ended; whatever was on their itinerary lost its importance--
their priorities went right out the window and became no more significant than
green cheese on the moon.

Anyway; we shouldn't be quick to assume folks lose awareness when they die; not
when Ps 146:3-4 could easily mean to say that whatever was on people's minds
before they passed away is now null and void.

For example; while working on a new world tour, Pop singer Michael Jackson died in
his sleep. As a result; his tour wrapped on the spot.

When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison, he quit drinking, and began
going to college with the goal towards becoming a counselor. For 2½ years all went
well. His parole officer was happy, and he was on track and getting good grades.
My nephew's future looked assured. And then on the morning of Sept 25, 2015, he
dropped dead to the floor of natural causes.

My nephew's passing was a terrible disappointment to everybody; but actually we
all kind of expected it. He was grossly overweight, had high blood pressure, high
cholesterol, rarely exercised, and used tobacco. But the point is; my nephew's
dream ended just as abruptly as flipping a light switch. And all of our hopes for his
success ended the same way, viz: our thoughts perished right along with his.

Death is the mortal enemy of human ambitions. It often casts its long shadow when
people set about planning their lives. The Scottish poet Robert Burns noticed that
life sometimes throws a curve ball that makes all your careful preparations strike
out instead of getting you on base.

He was working one day plowing in the field and uprooted a mouse's underground
nest who was all set for the oncoming winter. The mouse had picked a fallow field
as the site for its winter retreat no doubt assuming it would be safe and snug;
unmolested during the cold. But the mouse didn't (or maybe we should say it
couldn't) know the workings of powers higher than itself-- in this case, farmers and
their machinery.

Mousie, you are not alone in proving foresight may be vain.
The best laid schemes of mice and men go often askew,
And leave us naught but grief and pain for promised joy.
_

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Beetow, I don't debate the Jehovah's Witnesses. I just tell them that I believe in the Trinity and know that they don't. As a result, we have nothing to talk about. I spread that big seed of the truth that I pray will grow in them. Besides, I don't have time for discussions that go nowhere.

 

[walter45]

Beetow, I don't debate the Jehovah's Witnesses. I just tell them that I believe in the Trinity and know that they don't. As a result, we have nothing to talk about. I spread that big seed of the truth that I pray will grow in them. Besides, I don't have time for discussions that go nowhere.

Are you interested in a friendly conversation about a scripture or two?

 

[Beetow]

.
Unless conventional Christians have undergone specialized training, it's not a good
idea to engage in debate with Watchtower missionaries as I can just about
guarantee that their experienced workers are better at debating us than we are
them. However; should it be decided to go head to head with Jehovah's Witnesses,
here's some useful tips.

01) It's best to use their Bibles. So round up a copy of the Watchtower Society's
New World Translation of the Bible & their Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the
Greek Scriptures. Sometimes these are available in thrift stores like Good Will and
Salvation Army. Both are available online from amazon dot com.

For some useful insights into a variety of Watchtower Society teachings, the little
brown book titled "Reasoning From The Scriptures" is a must-have. It's available
online too. Be sure to get the Watchtower Society's version instead of another book
by the same name published by a different agency.

02) Do not let these people get personal with you. You must never ever assume
they are your friends because first and foremost their primary interest is in making
you a life-long slave to the Watchtower Society. You can be courteous and you can
be civil, but it's highly recommended that you not let them into your life.

03) Do not accept their literature. They will want to come back later and discuss it
with you; thus taking control of both your thinking and the meeting.

04) Don't let them get too far into their spiel, but at the first opportunity begin
introducing your own questions; thus denying them control of the conversation.

05) Do not quarrel. (cf. 2Tim 2:24-26)

06) Avoid trivial issues like birthdays, Easter, Christmas, Christmas trees, the
design and construction of the structure upon which Christ was crucified, saluting
the flag, service in the military, etc. etc. There are much bigger fish to fry than
those.

07) Make them listen and pay attention to what you say even if you have to repeat
yourself to do it, or clap your hands, snap your fingers, or raise your voice. Do not
let them digress, change the subject, go off on a tangent, nor get distracted and/or
turn their attention elsewhere while you're speaking. If they start digging through
their bags, shuffling papers, tinkering with their tablets, or looking up a reference;
call them on it because there is no use in speaking to them when their minds are
elsewhere engaged.

08) Do not permit them to interrupt you and/or talk out of turn. Politely, but firmly,
insist that they hold their peace until you've said your piece.

09) Do not permit them to evade and/or circumvent difficult questions. They
sometimes say that they will have to confer with someone more knowledgeable.
When they do that, the meeting is over. Thank them politely for their time and then
ask them to leave and come back when they have the information. Never let them
stay and start a new topic.

10) Do not react and/or respond to ad hominems, which can be defined as logical
fallacies in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive,
qualifications and/or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons
associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument
itself.

June 28, 2024, the US Supreme Court overturned a long held opinion so-called the
Chevron Deference Doctrine, which was basically an argument from authority, i.e. a
logical fallacy which supposes that someone's position, or their credential, makes
their views more important and/or more likely to be correct than the views of lesser
folks.

In a nutshell; just because someone is high up on the "expert" totem pole does not
eo ipso make them right. So don't let JWs get away with discrediting either you or
your sources as a means to refute your information. (cf. John 9:34)

11) These people undergo hour upon hour of training to refute conventional
Christianity, so it's very important to show them the Bible not only in ways they've
already seen, but also in ways they've never imagined.

12) Take advantage of the internet, especially YouTube's collection of lectures and
discussions relative to Watchtower Society beliefs and practices.
_

 

[walter45]

.
Unless conventional Christians have undergone specialized training, it's not a good
idea to engage in debate with Watchtower missionaries as I can just about
guarantee that their experienced workers are better at debating us than we are
them. However; should it be decided to go head to head with Jehovah's Witnesses,
here's some useful tips.

01) It's best to use their Bibles. So round up a copy of the Watchtower Society's
New World Translation of the Bible & their Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the
Greek Scriptures. Sometimes these are available in thrift stores like Good Will and
Salvation Army. Both are available online from amazon dot com.

For some useful insights into a variety of Watchtower Society teachings, the little
brown book titled "Reasoning From The Scriptures" is a must-have. It's available
online too. Be sure to get the Watchtower Society's version instead of another book
by the same name published by a different agency.

02) Do not let these people get personal with you. You must never ever assume
they are your friends because first and foremost their primary interest is in making
you a life-long slave to the Watchtower Society. You can be courteous and you can
be civil, but it's highly recommended that you not let them into your life.

03) Do not accept their literature. They will want to come back later and discuss it
with you; thus taking control of both your thinking and the meeting.

04) Don't let them get too far into their spiel, but at the first opportunity begin
introducing your own questions; thus denying them control of the conversation.

05) Do not quarrel. (cf. 2Tim 2:24-26)

06) Avoid trivial issues like birthdays, Easter, Christmas, Christmas trees, the
design and construction of the structure upon which Christ was crucified, saluting
the flag, service in the military, etc. etc. There are much bigger fish to fry than
those.

07) Make them listen and pay attention to what you say even if you have to repeat
yourself to do it, or clap your hands, snap your fingers, or raise your voice. Do not
let them digress, change the subject, go off on a tangent, nor get distracted and/or
turn their attention elsewhere while you're speaking. If they start digging through
their bags, shuffling papers, tinkering with their tablets, or looking up a reference;
call them on it because there is no use in speaking to them when their minds are
elsewhere engaged.

08) Do not permit them to interrupt you and/or talk out of turn. Politely, but firmly,
insist that they hold their peace until you've said your piece.

09) Do not permit them to evade and/or circumvent difficult questions. They
sometimes say that they will have to confer with someone more knowledgeable.
When they do that, the meeting is over. Thank them politely for their time and then
ask them to leave and come back when they have the information. Never let them
stay and start a new topic.

10) Do not react and/or respond to ad hominems, which can be defined as logical
fallacies in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive,
qualifications and/or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons
associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument
itself.

June 28, 2024, the US Supreme Court overturned a long held opinion so-called the
Chevron Deference Doctrine, which was basically an argument from authority, i.e. a
logical fallacy which supposes that someone's position, or their credential, makes
their views more important and/or more likely to be correct than the views of lesser
folks.

In a nutshell; just because someone is high up on the "expert" totem pole does not
eo ipso make them right. So don't let JWs get away with discrediting either you or
your sources as a means to refute your information. (cf. John 9:34)

11) These people undergo hour upon hour of training to refute conventional
Christianity, so it's very important to show them the Bible not only in ways they've
already seen, but also in ways they've never imagined.

12) Take advantage of the internet, especially YouTube's collection of lectures and
discussions relative to Watchtower Society beliefs and practices.
_

I myself am not a missionary, I just like talking about Jesus words and the apostles words that are in harmony.

 

[Beetow]

.
The Watchtower Society insists people cease to exist as persons when they pass
away as if human existence is no more resilient than that of an insect or a bird. The
prophet Jonah is a very useful rebuttal to the Society's position.

● Jonah 1:17 . . The Lord provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and he was inside
the fish three days and three nights

FAQ: Was Jonah alive in the fish?

REPLY: Yes. (Jonah 2:1)

FAQ: The whole time?

REPLY: No; at some point in his nautical adventure Jonah went to a place called
sheol (Jonah 2:2) which is located at the roots of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)

Well; the roots of the mountains aren't anchored in the tummies of fish, nor are
they anchored under the sea, rather: they're anchored underground deep in the
earth. So, the only way that Jonah could possibly be at the roots of the mountains
while simultaneously in the belly of a fish was for the man and his body to part
company and go their separate ways. This is not impossible because according to
Matt 10:28 people can, and do, exist as disembodied souls.

Also, the language of Jonah's prayer strongly suggests that his corpse was restored
to life, i.e. resurrected.

● Jonah 2:6 . . I descended to the roots of the mountains. The earth with its bars
was around me forever, But Thou hast brought up my life from the pit, O Lord my
God.

* The earth's bars aren't steel rods like those of a modern jail cell. Bars in Noah's
day were sturdy wooden beams employed to secure city gates. (cf. Judges 16:3)

The Hebrew word for "pit" basically pertains to holes in the ground, but sometimes
speaks of putrefaction too, e.g. Ps 16:8-10 & Acts 2:25-31. In other words: had
Jonah's body been left inside that fish's tummy for much longer, it would've been
digested to oblivion.

● Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge
fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Now when you think about it; Jesus' remains weren't laid to rest in the heart of the
earth; and in point of fact they weren't even covered with the earth's soil. They were
laid to rest up on the surface of the earth, above the soil, in a rock tomb. So the
only way that Jesus could be aboveground while simultaneously underground was
for he and his body to part company and go their separate ways the same as
Jonah's did.

Also: it was essential to get Jesus back up on his feet again before a fourth day to
prevent his body from being lost to rot. (John 11:39, Ps 16:8-10, Acts 2:25-31)

NOTE: Jonah 2:5-7 strongly suggests the prophet was already deceased via
drowning prior to the fish; which makes sense seeing as Jesus was deceased prior
to the tomb, viz: neither man was buried alive.
_

 

[walter45]

If people automatically when they died lived on, why did Jesus talk about the resurrection on the last day so many times?
John 6:40, John 6:39, John 11:23-28 and a resurrection of the dead John 5:28-29, Apostle wrote about a day Acts 17:30-31

 

[walter45]

Also John 6:44 and John 6:54 Jesus talks about a resurrection on the last day.

 

[Beetow]

Also John 6:44 and John 6:54 Jesus talks about a resurrection on the last day.

One of my very favorites is Daniel 12:2 which says:

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life
others to shame and everlasting contempt."
_

 

[walter45]

One of my very favorites is Daniel 12:2 which says:

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life
others to shame and everlasting contempt."
_

I agree with you Jesus says something similar at John 5:28-29

Multitudes will awake and others to everlasting contempt..

 

[LeviR]

One of my very favorites is Daniel 12:2 which says:

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life
others to shame and everlasting contempt."
_

Awaking in shame and in contempt is not a pleasant thought.
I’d rather stay asleep, thank you.
Hope the shame and contempt before being tossed into the lake of fire doesn’t last too long.

 

[Beetow]

.
FAQ: John 5:24 says that folks who listen to Jesus' message, and believe in his
God, have eternal life right now. Well; if so, then why do Christ's followers die just
like everybody else?

REPLY: Eternal life and Immortality are not synonymous. For example: Jesus had
eternal life when he was here (John 5:26 & 1John 1:1-2) but he didn't obtain
immortality till after his resurrection (Rom 6:9, Rev 1:18) And according to John
6:54, the apostles had eternal life too; but it didn't prevent their demise; they're all
gone.

In a nutshell; immortality pertains to a body that cannot die, whereas eternal life
pertains to a soul that cannot die; so folks with eternal life are no longer in danger
of Matt 10:28 which says:

"Do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear
Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell."

The possession of eternal life is very crucial because pew warmers lacking eternal
life are also lacking unity with God's son, i.e. they are quite literally christless
Christians.

● 1John 5:9-13 . .We accept human testimony, but God's testimony carries more
weight because it is the testimony of God, which He has given about His son. . . .
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son.
Whoever has the Son has the life; whoever who does not have the life, does not
have God's son.
_

 

[Beetow]

shame and everlasting contempt.

Down at the end of all with which we are familiar, the announcement below will be
made.

"Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do
right, and the holy still be holy." (Rev 22:11)

In other words: the people to whom those words pertain, will be stuck with who
and what they are with no chance of ever being any different. That's good news for
the righteous and/or holy, whereas really bad news for folks who end up on the
wrong side of things as they will be forever unfit for anyplace else.
_