Examining Jehovah's Witnesses

[Beetow]

.
FAQ: How is it that conventional Christians interpret Luke 23:43 to mean that Jesus
would be in paradise the very day of his death when three days later he informed
Mary Magdalena that he had not yet ascended to his Father? (John 20:17)

REPLY: Well, of one thing we can be very certain: when Jesus died, he didn't go up--
quite the opposite --he went down. (Matt 12:40, Ps 16:9-10, and Acts 2:25-31)

FAQ: Paradise is located in the netherworld?

REPLY: It's translated from a Greek word pertaining to parks, e.g. New York City's
central park, et al.

However; paradise isn't just one park, rather, a system of parks. There's one in the
netherworld (Matt 12:40, Luke 16:19-31) another in a celestial region that Paul
labeled the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4) and yet another located with God. (Rev 2:7)
_

 

[tigger II]

.
FAQ: How is it that conventional Christians interpret Luke 23:43 to mean that Jesus
would be in paradise the very day of his death when three days later he informed
Mary Magdalena that he had not yet ascended to his Father? (John 20:17)

REPLY: Well, of one thing we can be very certain: when Jesus died, he didn't go up--
quite the opposite --he went down. (Matt 12:40, Ps 16:9-10, and Acts 2:25-31)

FAQ: Paradise is located in the netherworld?

REPLY: It's translated from a Greek word pertaining to parks, e.g. New York City's
central park, et al.

However; paradise isn't just one park, rather, a system of parks. There's one in the
netherworld (Matt 12:40, Luke 16:19-31) another in a celestial region that Paul
labeled the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4) and yet another located with God. (Rev 2:7)
_

............................................
A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by E.W.Bullinger, DD., page 811 says:

"'And Jesus said to him, Verily, to thee I say this day, with Me shalt thou be in the Paradise.' The words today being made solemn and emphatic. Thus, instead of a remembrance, when He shall come in... His kingdom, He promises a presence in association (meta, 'with') Himself. And this promise he makes on that very day when he was dying.... Thus we are saved (1) the trouble of explaining why Jesus did not answer the question on its own terms; and (2) the inconvenience of endorsing the punctuation of the [KJV] as inspired; and we also place this passage in harmony with numberless passages in the O.T., such as 'Verily I say unto you this day,' etc.; 'I testify unto you this day.' etc. Deut.vi.6; vii.1; x.13; xi.8;,13,23; xii.13; xix.9; xxvii.4; xxxi.2, etc., where the Septuagint corresponds to Luke xxii.43."

Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, “I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”

 

[Beetow]

Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, “I tell you today, You will be
with me in Paradise.”

To my knowledge, none of the ancient Greek manuscripts are punctuated, which
means that the manner in which English translations are punctuated is entirely
arbitrary.

With that in mind, here's Luke 23:43 verbatim from the Watchtower Bible and Tract
Society's Kingdom Interlinear translation of the Greek Scriptures, ©1969

And he said to him Amen to you I am saying today with me you will be in the
Paradise.

Now watch as I take the liberty to arbitrarily insert some punctuation.

And he said to him "Amen, to you I am saying; today with me you will be in the
Paradise."

So the question is: whose arbitrary punctuation is correct? mine or the Society's?
We'll just have to wait and see, won't we? Caveat Lector.
_

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Beetow,

Yes, there is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, “I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”

And he said to him "Amen, to you I am saying; today with me you will be in the
Paradise."

So the question is: whose arbitrary punctuation is correct? mine or the Society's?
We'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

I am happy to endorse Bullinger's rendition, and this makes sense in response to the actual request by the thief:
Luke 23:39–43 (KJV adjusted): 39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
Refer also the marginal notes of the Companion Bible. Your view is based on immortal souls that go to heaven (not the paradise here) at death, and we will not need to wait to reject and refute this erroneous doctrine. Jesus taught the resurrection of the faithful when he returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth, Paradise restored.

Kind regards
Trevor