Examining Jehovah's Witnesses

[walter45]

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FAQ: John 5:24 says that folks who listen to Jesus' message, and believe in his
God, have eternal life right now. Well; if so, then why do Christ's followers die just
like everybody else?

REPLY: Eternal life and Immortality are not synonymous. For example: Jesus had
eternal life when he was here (John 5:26 & 1John 1:1-2) but he didn't obtain
immortality till after his resurrection (Rom 6:9, Rev 1:18) And according to John
6:54, the apostles had eternal life too; but it didn't prevent their demise; they're all
gone.

In a nutshell; immortality pertains to a body that cannot die, whereas eternal life
pertains to a soul that cannot die; so folks with eternal life are no longer in danger
of Matt 10:28 which says:

"Do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear
Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell."

The possession of eternal life is very crucial because pew warmers lacking eternal
life are also lacking unity with God's son, i.e. they are quite literally christless
Christians.

● 1John 5:9-13 . .We accept human testimony, but God's testimony carries more
weight because it is the testimony of God, which He has given about His son. . . .
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son.
Whoever has the Son has the life; whoever who does not have the life, does not
have God's son.
_

Each scripture has valuable information, one scripture does not cancel out the other does it?

Would we not get more understanding from reading more scriptures?

- Doesn't Jesus make it clear about life "only a few find it" (Matthew 7:13-14)
- Jesus also explains that both the soul and the body can die.. Matthew 10:28

 

[Beetow]

Jesus also explains that both the soul and the body can die.. Matthew 10:28

The human soul is sturdy, but not indestructible. Although it cannot be destroyed
by normal means, it can be destroyed by the hand of God, and apparently numbers
of souls are on track for exactly that.

● Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul;
but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell.

I think it safe to assume that the Hell capable of destroying souls is different than
the Hell in which is confined the rich man per Luke 16:19-31. The Greek word in
that scenario is haides whereas the Hell in Matt 10:28 is geena.

NOTE: Soul isn't unique to human life. Its first appearance is at Gen 1:20-21 in reference
to aqua creatures and winged creatures; again at Gen 1:24 as terra creatures; viz:
cattle, creepy crawlies, and wild beasts; and again in Gen 2:7 as the human
creature; and yet again at Gen 9:10 to classify every creature aboard Noah's ark.

God has a soul too. (Lev 26:11, Lev 26:30, Judg 10:16, Isa 42:1, Jer 32:41, Zech
11:8)

Soul is somewhat ambiguous but basically refers to consciousness, self awareness,
and individuality. It's sometimes a reference to one's heart, e.g. Gen 34:3, and to
the core of one's being, e.g. Gen 27:4. All in all, soul is just another way of
referring to that part of sentient life that we call "self" which can be roughly defined
as the element of our existence that makes us unique individuals.
_

 

[Beetow]

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The Watchtower Society believes in something called "life force" which is worth
examining.

They claim that the archangel Michael's life force was transferred to the womb of
Jesus' mom so he could exist as a human being without losing the essence of his
identity; and then when his human existence passed away on the cross, Michael's
life force was transferred back so he could pick up where he left off as a celestial
being.

Were I a Jehovah's Witness, the Society's thoughts about Michael would make me
very nervous because if God can move an angel's life force around like that, then
He just may be able to do the same with human life force.

I mean; think about it. Luke 16:19-31 tells of the rich man, Abraham, and Lazarus
as dead men; yet in the afterlife they are presented as sentient beings equipped
with human characteristics, to wit: Lazarus has a finger, Abraham has a bosom,
and the rich man has eyes and a tongue.

Now; the afterlife is a sphere about which I admit to knowing very little, but the
Bible gives me sufficient reason to believe folks over there are recognizable as the
people they were when they were over here.
_

 

[BPPLEE]

.
The Watchtower Society believes in something called "life force" which is worth
examining.

They claim that the archangel Michael's life force was transferred to the womb of
Jesus' mom so he could exist as a human being without losing the essence of his
identity; and then when his human existence passed away on the cross, Michael's
life force was transferred back so he could pick up where he left off as a celestial
being.

Were I a Jehovah's Witness, the Society's thoughts about Michael would make me
very nervous because if God can move an angel's life force around like that, then
He just may be able to do the same with human life force.

I mean; think about it. Luke 16:19-31 tells of the rich man, Abraham, and Lazarus
as dead men; yet in the afterlife they are presented as sentient beings equipped
with human characteristics, to wit: Lazarus has a finger, Abraham has a bosom,
and the rich man has eyes and a tongue.

Now; the afterlife is a sphere about which I admit to knowing very little, but the
Bible gives me sufficient reason to believe folks over there are recognizable as the
people they were when they were over here.
_

JWs believe that people who have died are dead, (asleep) and know nothing until the resurrection

 

[LeviR]

JWs believe that people who have died are dead, (asleep) and know nothing until the resurrection

Those who have followed along with the teaching of the RCC have been mocking those who see that “many who SLEEP in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt”.
What these mockers actually scoff at is scripture.
Awaking from the sleep of death is referred to as the resurrection of the dead.
It is when those who have died in Christ are raised from the dead to life eternal and the enjoyment of entering God’s kingdom.
While those who awake from their sleep of death in shame and contempt will face a second death in the lake of fire.
A fire that will be burning on the earth to consume all the wicked.

 

[Beetow]

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The Watchtower Society claims Luke 16:19-31 is a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable theory
has some fatal flaws.

For one: whenever Jesus told a parable, he eventually took his disciples aside and
explained its meaning. (Mark 4:34) I would've liked to been on hand when Jesus
expounded his defense for quoting Abraham saying things that the patriarch didn't
really say; which in my judicious estimation is especially despicable due to the fact
that Abraham is one of God's buddies. (Isa 41:8)

All I'm saying is: if we can't trust Jesus to tell the truth about his Father's friends,
then how are we supposed to trust him to tell the truth about one of us? This is a
serious question because Jesus is the one and only mediator between God and Man
(1Tim 2:5) Well; I would not be comfortable with someone unfaithful to me speaking
on my behalf.

One other point: nothing Jesus taught originated with him. He was, in fact, quite
micro managed. (John 8:26, John 8:28, John 12:49, John 14:24, John 3:34-35,
Heb 1:1-2) In other words: Jesus' teachings were God-given. Well; I cannot
imagine someone as famous for honesty as God directing His own son to tell us
things about people that aren't true; especially about His friends.

● John 17:3 . . You . . the only truthful God

● Heb 6:18 . . it is impossible for God to lie

If God's integrity is really as reliable as the Bible presents it; then I should think it
completely safe to assume that all of Jesus' parables, every one of them, from the
shortest to the longest, are 100% true stories taken from real life rather than yarns
spun from a fertile imagination.
_

 

[Beetow]

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The Watchtower Society alleges that the transfiguration event recorded in Matt
17:1-9, Mark 9:2-8, Luke 9:28-36, and 2Pet 1:16-18 displayed Jesus' true angelic
form.

However; according to the reports; the transfiguration event was a preview of the
future kingdom; which, according to Heb 2:5-8 will be ruled, managed, and
supervised by human beings rather than by celestial beings.

Also; during the event, a voice from heaven identified Jesus as "my beloved son".
According to the first chapter of the letter to Hebrews, God has never made an
angel His heir apparent nor His next of kin.

Plus; at no time during the event did Jesus undergo a name change; he was never
once addressed, or referred to, as Michael.

In addition; none of the accounts say that Jesus' physical body was changed into a
spirit body. In point of fact, the only alteration that Jesus actually underwent was
the shine that radiated from his face and clothing; and he himself remained
recognizable as Jesus rather than someone that the apostle Peter had never seen
before.

FAQ: How did Peter know the two men with Jesus were Moses and Elijah?

NOTE: The report says Jesus and the men were discussing his impending demise.
My guess is Peter overheard his master addressing them by name.
_

 

[BPPLEE]

Who are the Jehovah’s Witnesses and what are their beliefs? | GotQuestions.org

Who are the Jehovah’s Witnesses (Jehovahs / JW / JWs) and what are their beliefs? Why are the Jehovah’s Witnesses considered a cult?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Beetow]

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POSIT: It is impossible for Jesus Christ to be in heaven as a human being in the
presence of God because 1Tim 6:16 says that the king of all kings dwells in an
unapproachable light, whom "not one of men" has seen or can see.

REPLY: The Greek word translated "unapproachable" also means inaccessible;
which right there attests that humanity needs a mediator between itself and the
unapproachable light to make possible a meaningful rapport with a personage
whose thought processes are very much unlike our own.

Note that the passage below is misquoted. Watch for the revision.

"There is one God, and one mediator between God and men; an angel: Christ
Michael." (1Tim 2:5)

No, that passage doesn't actually say "an angel" nor does it actually say "Christ
Michael". Here it is for real.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men; a man: Christ
Jesus."

The Greek word for "men", as well as the word for "a man" is derived from
anthropos (anth'-ro-pos) --a common Greek word for human beings throughout
the new testament.

So it's readily seen from a cursory examination of the Greek that the mediator
spoken of in 1Tim 2:5 is a human rather than an angel.

Seeing as how Christ Jesus is allowed access to the inaccessible light as a human
being, then it's safe to conclude that there has to be something very unusual about
him.

Well; for one thing, his body is no longer that of mortal men. When he went up to
heaven, Christ Jesus' body underwent a miraculous transformation. It's still human,
that we know, but its chemistry is unlike any human body on Earth. (1Cor 15:50
53)

For another, Christ Jesus is not only human, but also divine (John 1:1, John 1:18,
and Col 2:9). That alone would surely be enough to grant him some special
privileges, and it does. For example: the angel Gabriel stands in the presence of
God (Luke 1:19) whereas the man Christ Jesus is seated. (Ps 110:1, Col 3:1)
_

 

[Beetow]

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The Watchtower Society's Bible ©1984 translates Heb 1:8 like this:

"But with reference to the Son: God is your throne forever and ever"

However, when we look up the Greek text of Heb 1:8 in the Kingdom Interlinear
Translation of the Greek Scriptures ©1969, we quickly discover that "God is your
throne" is incorrect because it literally says:

"The throne of you the God"

A Watchtower Society missionary explained to me that "God is your throne" is an
editorial arrangement to help folks understand that the Son's throne is established
with the power of God rather than the power of men (John 18:36). In other words:
"God is your throne" is an interpretation rather than a translation. Caveat Lector
_

 

[Beetow]

.
FAQ: How can a normal body be returned to life that's been obliterated by a bomb,
eaten and digested by beasts, incinerated, or rotted away due to lack of
embalming?

REPLY: It can be done: for example Lazarus' body was in a state of putrefaction
(John 11:39) i.e. it was no longer in its original condition when Jesus put Humpty
Dumpty back together again.

FAQ: Supposing some of the atoms that made my body go into making another
person's body after mine is dead and dissolved back to dust? How will God fully
restore both our bodies to life seeing as how He will have need of the atoms of each
of us to do so?

REPLY: The chemical constitution of the various natural atoms listed on the periodic
table are identical; it's not as if they're snowflakes; viz: should God need some
carbon atoms to reconstruct your body, He can utilize carbon atoms from a Sequoia
cactus and they would work just fine without the slightest need for adjustment
because every carbon atom on earth is a precise duplicate of every other carbon
atom on earth; viz: all carbon atoms are just one kind of carbon atom, i.e. the
carbon atoms in your body are not unique.

So it isn't necessary for God to locate all your original carbon atoms in order to
reconstruct your original body; He just needs carbon atoms; and they are very
plentiful in nature: same with other kinds of atoms, e.g. iron, calcium, phosphorus,
sodium, hydrogen, nitrogen, etc.

FAQ: But wasn't Jesus' resurrected body able to do things that his normal body
never did; like pass thru closed doors and to suddenly appear and disappear; thus
proving he came back as a spirit being?

REPLY: If Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego could walk thru fire in a normal body,
then I should think it not all that difficult for Jesus to pass thru walls in a normal
body.

And if Philip could be instantly transported in a normal body, then for sure Jesus
could too.

The properties of a normal body do not determine what God can do with it, or
cannot do, viz: when analyzing miracles, I suggest we avoid differentiating between
the possible and the impossible.
_

 

[BPPLEE]

.
FAQ: How can a normal body be returned to life that's been obliterated by a bomb,
eaten and digested by beasts, incinerated, or rotted away due to lack of
embalming?

REPLY: It can be done: for example Lazarus' body was in a state of putrefaction
(John 11:39) i.e. it was no longer in its original condition when Jesus put Humpty
Dumpty back together again.

FAQ: Supposing some of the atoms that made my body go into making another
person's body after mine is dead and dissolved back to dust? How will God fully
restore both our bodies to life seeing as how He will have need of the atoms of each
of us to do so?

REPLY: The chemical constitution of the various natural atoms listed on the periodic
table are identical; it's not as if they're snowflakes; viz: should God need some
carbon atoms to reconstruct your body, He can utilize carbon atoms from a Sequoia
cactus and they would work just fine without the slightest need for adjustment
because every carbon atom on earth is a precise duplicate of every other carbon
atom on earth; viz: all carbon atoms are just one kind of carbon atom, i.e. the
carbon atoms in your body are not unique.

So it isn't necessary for God to locate all your original carbon atoms in order to
reconstruct your original body; He just needs carbon atoms; and they are very
plentiful in nature: same with other kinds of atoms, e.g. iron, calcium, phosphorus,
sodium, hydrogen, nitrogen, etc.

FAQ: But wasn't Jesus' resurrected body able to do things that his normal body
never did; like pass thru closed doors and to suddenly appear and disappear; thus
proving he came back as a spirit being?

REPLY: If Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego could walk thru fire in a normal body,
then I should think it not all that difficult for Jesus to pass thru walls in a normal
body.

And if Philip could be instantly transported in a normal body, then for sure Jesus
could too.

The properties of a normal body do not determine what God can do with it, or
cannot do, viz: when analyzing miracles, I suggest we avoid differentiating between
the possible and the impossible.
_

All he needs is DNA. There will always be traces

 

[Beetow]

.
● 1Thess 4:16a . . For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud
command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God

The only archangel named in the New Testament is Michael (Jude 9) However,
according to Daniel 10:13 there's more than one, so I think it would be a mistake
to insist the archangel's voice in 1Thess 4:16 is Michael's.

* The trumpet call of God is possibly relative to Rev 1:10-18.

Anyway; various members of the Watchtower Society have made predictions
relative to Christ's return and been mistaken every time, e.g. 1878, 1871, 1914,
1918, 1925, and 1975. That's very serious because those errors indicate some of
the theologians in the Watchtower Society have been acting on their own rather
than in concert with God. Well; in my opinion: the haulers of water and the hewers
of wood (a.k.a. the great crowd) really ought to question just how deep their rabbit
hole goes.
_

 

[tigger II]

.
The Watchtower Society's Bible ©1984 translates Heb 1:8 like this:

"But with reference to the Son: God is your throne forever and ever"

However, when we look up the Greek text of Heb 1:8 in the Kingdom Interlinear
Translation of the Greek Scriptures ©1969, we quickly discover that "God is your
throne" is incorrect because it literally says:

"The throne of you the God"

A Watchtower Society missionary explained to me that "God is your throne" is an
editorial arrangement to help folks understand that the Son's throne is established
with the power of God rather than the power of men (John 18:36). In other words:
"God is your throne" is an interpretation rather than a translation. Caveat Lector
_

..................................................
Heb. 1:8 in the KJV reads 'thy throne, O God, is forever and ever’


Literally the NT Greek text reads for Heb. 1:8: “Toward but the son the throne of you the god into the age of the age.”

The American Standard Version (ASV), the Revised Standard Version (RSV), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), and The New English Bible (NEB) have provided alternate readings to the traditional trinitarian rendering of the KJV at Hebrews 1:8. These alternate readings (found in footnotes) agree with Dr. Moffatt’s, Dr. Barclay’s, Smith-Goodspeed’s, Byington’s, and the New World Translation’s renderings of this scripture (“God is your throne”).

Even Young’s Concise Bible Commentary (written by the famous trinitarian author of Young’s Analytical Concordance to the Bible) admits: “[Heb. 1:8] may be justly rendered ‘God is thy throne ...’ in either case it is applicable to the mediatorial throne only.”

Ps. 45 Quoted in Heb. 1:8
Psalm 45 is celebrating an Israelite king’s marriage, and the psalmist applies the words of Ps. 45:6, 7 literally to an ancient Israelite king. In fact, the trinitarian New American Standard Bible (NASB), Reference Edition, explains in a footnote for Ps. 45:1, “Probably refers to Solomon as a type of Christ.”

So, according to this trinitarian Bible, the words of Ps. 45:6, although figuratively referring to Jesus, were literally applied to an ancient Israelite king (probably King Solomon, it says).

So if Ps. 45:6 is properly translated, “your throne, O God ...” then that ancient Israelite King (Solomon?) was also literally called “O God” (or “O god”?). In fact, the highly trinitarian New American Bible, St. Joseph Edition, 1970, explains in a footnote for this verse:

“The Hebrew king was called ... ‘God,’ not in the polytheistic sense common among the ancient
pagans, but as meaning ‘godlike’ or ‘taking the place of God’.”

The RSV renders it as “Your Divine throne” and a footnote provides this alternate reading: “Or ‘your throne is a throne of God.’”

The NEB says: “Your throne is like God’s throne.”

The Holy Scriptures (JPS version) says: “Thy throne given of God.”

The Bible in Living English (Byington) says: “God is your throne.”

The Good News Bible (GNB), a very trinitarian paraphrase Bible, renders it: “The kingdom that God has given you will last forever and ever.”

The REB has: “God has enthroned you for all eternity.”

And the NJB gives us: “your throne is from God.”

We also see the following statement by respected trinitarian scholars in a footnote for this passage:

“45:6 O God. Possibly the king’s throne is called God’s throne because he is God’s appointed regent. But it is also possible that the king himself is addressed as ‘god.’” - Ps. 45:6 f.n. in the NIV Study Bible.

Obviously, then, the charge sometimes made that the NWT is “not being honest or scholarly” with its rendering of Heb. 1:8 is simply untrue, and it certainly may be honestly translated “God is your throne forever.”

Just the admission by so many trinitarian translators (above) that Heb. 1:8 may be honestly translated as it is in the NWT makes any insistence by other trinitarians that this scripture is acceptable evidence for a trinity doctrine completely invalid!

Even famed Southern Baptist New Testament Greek scholar and staunch trinitarian Dr. A. T. Robertson admits:

“It is not certain whether ho theos is here the vocative [‘your throne, O God’] ... or ho theos is nominative (subject or predicate) with estin (is) understood: ‘God is thy throne’ or ‘Thy throne is God.’ Either makes good sense.” - p. 339, Vol. 5, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Broadman Press, 1960.

So, if the NWT is 'falsifying' Heb. 1:8, it has a lot of respected Trinitarian company!!

 

[Beetow]

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● John 5:39 . . You are searching the Scriptures, because you think that by means
of them you will have everlasting life.

That's still going on to this day, viz: there are rabbis actually believing they obtain
everlasting life academically, i.e. from study. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that
way too; and they get that from John 17:3 which, in the ©1984 version of the
NWT, says:

"This means everlasting life: their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God,
and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

However: the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures ©1969
renders it slightly different; like this:

"This is but the everlasting life in order that they may be knowing you, the only
true God and Jesus Christ whom you sent forth"

The NWT defines everlasting life, whereas the Interlinear emphasizes the necessity
of everlasting life. I think we may safely assume the Interlinear trumps the NWT.

Now; the common understanding of life pertains to the nature of something's
existence. For example in the beginning God created two kinds of life: sentient life
and non sentient life, i.e. flora and fauna. Neither of those kinds life are
everlasting; which can be defined by Psalm 90:1-2 which says:

"O Jehovah, you yourself have proved to be a real dwelling for us during generation
after generation. Before the mountains themselves were born, or you proceeded to
bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land: even from time
indefinite to time indefinite you are God."

In other words: God always was, He always is, and He always shall be, viz: God is
not only an everlasting life, but He is the only everlasting life; which makes Him not
only unique, but also implies that we should expect that the workings of His mind
would be very different than ours.

Now; God could dumb Himself down to make Himself better understood, but it is
His pleasure to smarten us up instead.

In other words: Jesus endows his followers with everlasting life to enable them to
plumb God's thoughts the way God wants them plumbed because people's natural
ears are a barrier to effective communication between themselves and the supreme
being. (1Cor 2:11-16)
_