Examining Jehovah's Witnesses

[Beetow]

My first encounter with a Watchtower Society missionary (a.k.a. Jehovah's Witness)
occurred in 1969. At the time I wasn't all that competent with the Bible, and thus
unaware JWs are very unconventional.

When I spoke of my encounter with an older Christian at work; he became
alarmed; and urged me to read a little book titled "30 Years A Watchtower Slave"
by William J. Schnell; whom the Society at one time demonized as an agent of
Satan. I would not be surprised if it still does.

After getting my eyes opened by Mr. Schnell's book, I was afterwards steered
towards another book titled "Kingdom Of The Cults" by Walter Martin. No doubt the
Society demonizes Mr. Martin too.

Around late 1980, my wife and I attended a series of lectures sponsored by a local
church titled "How To Witness To Jehovah's Witnesses". The speaker (call him Pete)
was a former JW who had been in the Watchtower Society system for near three
decades before terminating his involvement; so he knew the twists and turns of its
doctrines pretty good.

Pete didn't train us to hammer the Society's missionaries in a debate because even
if I was to best them scripture for scripture, they will not give up on the Society.
Their mind's unflinching premise is that the Society is right even when it appears to
be totally wrong. They are thoroughly convinced that the Society is the voice of
God, while my voice is regarded as no more valid than that of a squeaky little
gerbil.

Later on, I read a book titled "Why I Left The Jehovah's Witnesses" by Ted Dencher.
I also read the Society's little brown handbook titled "Reasoning From The Scriptures".

( This was all before the internet and the ready volume of information available
online, e.g. YouTube. )

From all that vetting, study, and training I discovered that although the Watchtower
Society uses many of conventional Christianity's terms and phrases, those terms
and phrases mean something entirely different in the JW mind than what I
expected because the Watchtower Society has re-defined them.

All in all; coping with Jehovah's Witnesses has been an Herculean task because
their beliefs are such a tangle of semantics coupled with a bizarre assortment of
twisted scriptures, double speak, rationalizing, humanistic reasoning, and clever
sophistry.
_

 

[Hidden In Him]

All in all; coping with Jehovah's Witnesses has been an Herculean task because
their beliefs are such a tangle of semantics coupled with a bizarre assortment of
twisted scriptures, double speak, rationalizing, humanistic reasoning, and clever
sophistry.

Yes it is. And the other difficult thing in debating the witnesses is that they will not honor anything other than the earliest texts, which for the average Christian can take them out of the debate before it has even begun.

It's not an easy debate.

So let me ask, after finding out what did not work, were you able to discover what would?

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

 

[Beetow]

So let me ask, after finding our what did not work, were you able to discover what would?

No.
_

 

[Hidden In Him]

No.
_

Oh well. All things are possible with God : )

Just curious.

 

[Beetow]

.
Were John Que and/or Jane Doe Watchtower Society missionary to be questioned if
they believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, I can assure you they would
answer in the affirmative. However, they and the interviewer wouldn't be speaking
the same language as the conversation would be talking about two very dissimilar
processes that go by the same name. In other words: the interviewer would soon
find themselves thrown off by semantic double speak.

In Watchtower Society theology, an angel named Michael volunteered to come to
the earth to die for humanity's sins. But in order to do so; he had to relinquish his
angel existence to become a human existence seeing as how in Society theology it
is impossible to exist as a spirit being and a material being simultaneously.
However, when Michael expired, he didn't go completely out of existence. Instead,
his so-called "life force" remained intact and was transferred to a human form.

"The transfer of the life of his firstborn Son from the spirit realm to earth. Only in
this way could the child eventually born have retained identity as the same person
who had resided in heaven as the Word." (Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, p.920)

Also:

"He had to become a perfect man and yet not lose his continuity of life. His life
force was not to be extinguished but would be transferred to the ovum of the virgin
girl, Mary." (Watchtower Magazine, Feb 02, 1982, p7)

But Michael's existence as a material being was only temporary. When his human
form passed away on the cross, the Society claims that God transferred Michael's
life force back into his angel corpse thus restoring him to his former spirit
existence; leaving the corpse of his human existence in a permanent state of
decease.

In other words: The Watchtower Society's Jesus is still dead, and his remains are
squirreled away on Earth somewhere in a condition and a location known only to
God.

FAQ: How does the Society explain Jesus' post resurrection appearances?

REPLY: Those were an artificial Jesus. The Society claims the angel Michael
disguised himself in a materialized body, i.e. an avatar. I say "disguised" because
never once did their Michael give himself away, rather, their Michael led Jesus'
friends to sincerely believe his crucified dead body was back from the grave.

* It could be argued that Jesus lives on in the body of an angel; but that wouldn't
be true seeing as how Jesus' life force would've been Michael's to begin with.

The Society has to accept the obvious fact that their doctrine implies that Jesus
Christ was never really fully human, rather, he was an amalgam of angel and
human seeing as how it was the life force of an angel that kept Jesus alive. In other
words: the Society's Jesus wasn't an organic human in the normal sense, rather; he
was an organic angel.

FYI: The Society maintains that Michael's crucified dead human form had to stay
dead so he could be an angel again. But that's not the only reason the Society gives
for keeping Michael's human remains perpetually deceased. There's more:

"If Jesus were to take his body of flesh, blood, and bones to heaven and enjoy
them there, what would this mean? It would mean that there would be no
resurrection of the dead for anybody. Why not? Because Jesus would be taking his
sacrifice off God's altar."(The Watchtower Magazine, April 15, 1963, p.237)

However; no biblical precedents exist for leaving sacrifices on the Altar. In point of
fact: certain portions were utilized as food for the priests; and other parts were
taken "outside the camp" to be incinerated. (Lev 4:12, Lev 4:21, Lev 16:27, Heb 13:11)
_

 

[Beetow]

.
JW POSIT: The Bible does not say what happened to Jesus' body.

REPLY: I believe there is sufficient textual material to easily figure out what
happened to Jesus' crucified dead body.

A useful passage is Jesus' prediction per John 2:18-22 wherein he said:

"Break down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

His opponents thought he meant the actual temple they had been discussing, but
John tells us what Jesus really meant in verse 21.

"But he was talking about the temple of his body."

It seems clear enough to me that "this temple" in verse 18 and "the temple of his
body" in verse 21 are speaking of Jesus' human body rather than Michael the arch
angel's spirit body.

Another useful passage is located at Luke 24:1-7 where the women found Jesus'
crucified dead body missing from the tomb. Two very unusual men confronted the
women with this question in the fifth and sixth verses:

"Why are you looking for the living one among the dead? He is not here, but has
been raised up."

Well; the 3rd verse says the women had been looking for the Lord Jesus' dead
body; which the two men assured them was no longer deceased.
_

 

[Hidden In Him]

But Michael's existence as a material being was only temporary. When his human
form passed away on the cross, the Society claims that God transferred Michael's
life force back into his angel corpse thus restoring him to his former spirit
existence; leaving the corpse of his human existence in a permanent state of
decease.

In other words: The Watchtower Society's Jesus is still dead, and his remains are
squirreled away on Earth somewhere in a condition and a location known only to
God.

Wow. You know, their theology is so unorthodox that I never stopped to think about questions like this, and how did they manage to make "sense" of such incongruent theological stands...

That's pretty informative, at least for me anyway. I've not looked looked into the JW answers for questions like this.

 

[jasonc]

I don't miss that place.

 

[Beetow]

.
● Acts 1:1-3 . .The first account, O Theophilus, I composed about all the things
Jesus started both to do and to teach, until the day that he was taken up, after he
had given commandment through holy spirit to the apostles whom he chose. To
these also by many positive proofs he showed himself alive after he had suffered.

The Watchtower Society's version of those "positive proofs" is interesting.

In order to show his friends that their leader was back from death, the arch angel
Michael is alleged to have materialized a variety of bodies that were in all respects
exact replicas of the human personage with whom his friends were familiar.

The replicas were necessary because in Watchtower theology Michael's existence in
human form wasn't restored to life. To this day his crucified body-- a.k.a. Jesus --is
still deceased and its remains are squirreled somewhere on earth in a condition,
and a location, known only to God.

* Be advised that not every JW knows this about the Watchtower Society's Jesus.
In point of fact, when I tried to discuss his perpetual state of death with a particular
Witness several years ago they became angry and called me a bald-face liar.

However: the predicted new world order-- the future theocratic kingdom --is on
track to be governed not by angels, rather, by humans (Heb 2:5-8) A materialized
human body-- viz: an avatar --isn't really human; it's artificial.

Now the way I see it: if Michael is to govern the new world order, then he will have
to undergo death all over again so that his life force can re-transferred back to
Jesus' remains, thus restoring his real human body to life. That way Michael could
be a man again instead of an angel in disguise.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
The verse below is deliberately misquoted in order to emphasize a point. Watch for
the revision.

"It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spirit body. If there is a natural body, there
is also a spirit body." (1Cor 15:44)

There are of course spirit bodies, e.g. angels and demons. However, the actual
word in the verse above is supposed to be spiritual rather than spirit, and in some
places describes spiritual things that bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to
the bodily characteristics of a ghost. For example:

Spiritual gifts (Rom 1:11)
Spiritual law (Rom 7:14)
Spiritual things (Rom 15:27)
Spiritual people (1Cor 2:15)
Spiritual nourishment (1Cor 10:3)
Spiritual water (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual rock (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual counselors (Gal 6:1)
Spiritual blessings (Eph 1:3)
Spiritual music (Eph 5:19)
Spiritual understanding (Col 1:9)
Spiritual housing (1Pet 2:5)
Spiritual sacrifices (1Pet 2:5)

So then, although a spiritual body is indestructible; its properties aren't necessarily
those of a specter.

The thing to note is that no matter what the chemistry is of a spiritual body, it will
be capable of dining upon ordinary foods and beverages in the future theocratic
kingdom.

● Matt 26:29 . . I tell you: I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until
that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.

● Luke 22:15-16 . . I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I
suffer. For I tell you: I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of
God.

● Luke 22:28-30 . .You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I
make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a
kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom.

FAQ: But doesn't 1Cor 15:50 say flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of
God?

REPLY: In context: bodies of flesh and blood pertain to the characteristics of
Adam's construction, i.e. within the 15th of 1Corinthians, flesh and blood speaks of
bodies made with natural elements, to wit: the earth's soil. (Gen 2:7)

Sometime in the future, the chemical composition of the bodies of the folks unified
with Christ will undergo a miraculous transformation. Their bodies will go from
human to superhuman. (1Cor 15:51-53 & 1Thess 4:13-17) Apparently God has in
store an unnatural periodic table of elements about which is known virtually
nothing.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
● 1Tim 2:5 . . There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man,
Christ Jesus.

There are two Greek words in use to translate "men" and "man" in that verse. The
word for "men" is anthroópoon whereas the word for "man" is ánthroopos. Both are
common words for humans in the new testament.

Now it's extremely important to note that Christ Jesus is a human's name rather
than an angel's name, viz: in Watchtower theology Michael the arch angel was
identifying himself as Mary's son Jesus while on Earth, but the thing is: Michael
could no longer identify himself as Mary's son Jesus after the crucifixion because
when her son expired, Michael's life force was transferred back to Heaven so he
could return to his prior existence as an angel; which of course eo ipso disqualified
him from getting installed in the mediator's position per 1Tim 2:5.

FAQ: Supposing Michael were to don a materialized human body. Couldn't he then
occupy the position of mediator between God and man?

REPLY: A materialized body isn't really human; it's an avatar. In Michael's case, it
would be an angel in disguise which I seriously doubt God would accept for the
position of the mediator per 1Tim 2:5. And besides, the position is patterned after
Melchizedek-- a human being rather than a spirit being. (Gen 14:18-20, Ps 110:1-4,
Heb 5:1, Heb 5:6-10, Heb 6:20)

NOTE: Heb 5:1-10 requires mediators to have human sensibilities. When the
Society's Michael relinquished his human nature and took back his angel nature, I
believe it is reasonable to assume he lost the human sensibilities he had while
Jesus; thus rendering him no longer capable of relating to us as a fellow man.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
A mediator is defined as one who interposes between two parties at variance to
reconcile them, viz: an intercessor.

Here's a question that someone wrote in to the questions from readers section of
the April 01, 1976 issue of Watchtower magazine, asking:

"Is Jesus the mediator only for anointed Christians? (a.k.a. the 144,000)"

The answer given in the magazine is YES.

The magazine's answer is corroborated on page 1130 of the Society's publication
titled "Aid To Bible Understanding" where it says that the 144,000 are the only ones
who have the mediator; a.k.a. Jesus Christ. (1John 2:1)

Intercession for non anointed Witnesses is accomplished on the coattails of the
144,000; viz: Jesus Christ is an indirect, second party mediator for common JWs
via their affiliation with the Watchtower Society.

It's sort of like buying insurance from Allstate. The company doesn't sell direct; its
business is conducted through brokers. In essence, that's what the Society
presumes itself, i.e. Jesus Christ's mediation brokerage.

So then; when a JW either apostatizes or is disfellowshipped, their pipeline to the
mediator is broken, and they right quick lose all contact with Christ; thus leaving
them with no way to reconcile with God, and placing themselves in grave danger of
the calamities depicted in the book of Revelation.

Bottom line: According to the Jehovah's Witnesses; it is impossible for the world's
2.52 billion conventional Christians to be on peaceful terms with God apart from
affiliation with the Watchtower Society-- ergo: if you are not one of them, you
are not one of His.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
I've had JWs tell me that the Watchtower magazine isn't their authority in matters
of faith and practice. But the periodical speaks for itself:

"Those who are convinced that The Watchtower is publishing the opinion or
expression of a man should not waste time in looking at it at all. Those who believe
that God uses the Watchtower as a means of communicating to his people, or of
calling attention to his prophecies, should study The Watchtower."
(The Watchtower, Jan 1, 1942, pg 5)

In other words: the haulers of water and the hewers of wood-- John Que and Jane
Doe rank and file, a.k.a. the great crowd --are not only expected to know what's in
the Watchtower magazine, but they're also required to accept it as God's
providence.

The JWs with whom I spoke were probably neophytes because I've been told the
Watchtower Society grooms newbies gradually so they don't get shocked too soon
and go away shaking their heads in awe and disgust.

Scientology does that too because if their people were told about Thetans too soon,
and/or about L. Ron Hubbard's thoughts pertaining to intelligent life in outer space,
they might question his sanity and get out early before they throw away thousands
of dollars obtaining Scientology's "clear" certification.

* You know; with all the information available online these days about JWs, Mormons,
Scientology, Mary Baker Eddy's Church of Christ Scientist, and Ellen G. White's Seventh
Day Adventists; it just amazes me there are people out there still falling for that stuff.
_

 

[JLB]

Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”
So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”
And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
John 20:24-28


His physical body still had the nail prints.

His physical body still had the wound on His side.

 

[Beetow]

.
● John 20:24-28 . . He said to Thomas: Put your finger here, and see my hands,
and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop being unbelieving but
become believing. In answer Thomas said to him: My Lord and my God!

FAQ: Why does the Watchtower Society's Bible capitalize "God" in John 20:28 when
that spelling contradicts their opposition to Jesus' divinity?

REPLY: It is a Watchtower Society rule of thumb that capitalization is required
when the Greek word theós is modified by the article ho.

However, I don't recommend making an issue of capitalization in this particular
incident because skilled JWs can easily dodge that bullet. They can easily dodge the
injuries too.

Instead, focus the attention upon Thomas' possessive pronoun because he not only
addressed Jesus as a deity; but also addressed him as "my" deity. In point of fact,
the Society's Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures ©1969
renders Thomas' statement like this:

"The Lord of me and the God of me."

Now if Thomas was a Jew; then his association with Jehovah was governed by the
covenant that Moses' people entered into with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers,
and Deuteronomy. The very first of the covenant's commandments forbids Jews to
have more than one deity; and by saying nothing to Thomas about addressing
someone other than Jehovah as his deity, Jesus would've been in violation right
along with Thomas because the Jews' covenant required Jesus to protest.

● Lev 19:17 . .You should by all means reprove your associate, that you may not
bear sin along with him.

Now, the million-dollar question is: If Jesus was Thomas' deity, and if Jesus
permitted himself to be addressed as Thomas' deity; then why isn't Jesus the
Watchtower Society's deity?

NOTE: I've heard it suggested that Thomas' reaction "My lord and my God" was an
expletive somewhat similar to the modern expression OMG. Well, if so then I think
there was grounds for Jesus to scold Thomas for profanity because the covenant's
commandments forbid Jews to speak of God in an offhanded manner. But Jesus
said nothing about it.
_

 

[Beetow]

.
● Col 1:15 . . He is the firstborn of all creation

The Greek word translated "firstborn" in that verse is prototokos, which never
means created first; no, it always means born first. The correct Greek word for
created first is protoktistos.

John Que and Jan Doe Witness probably don't know the difference between
prototokos and protoktistos; and no doubt would care little about it anyway. In
some minds; born first and created first are pretty much synonymous.

The thing to note is that "firstborn" doesn't always refer to birth order. The term
also refers to seniority, and as such is transferable, viz: it's possible to circumvent
the eldest and give his advantages to a junior, e.g. Ishmael to Isaac (Gen 20:11-12)
Esau to Jacob (Gen 25:23) Reuben to Joseph (Gen 49:3-4, 1Chr 5:1) and Manasseh
to Ephraim. (Gen 48:13-14)

In addition: the rank of firstborn isn't limited to family circles. For example the people
of Israel are God's firstborn among the world's nations (Ex 4:22) and David is/was
God's firstborn among the world's heads of State. (Ps 89:20-27)

* In time, Jesus superseded David-- highly irregular seeing as how David and Jesus are
paternally related as father and son instead of siblings. (Ps 110:1, Matt 22:42-45)
_