Excluded rather than worthy

[PeterJens]

Hey Peter,,,,
I'm starting to have my doubts as to this idea of being born again and if it's even biblical in the way that it's used these days.

I can't remember reading too much about this in the early church.
They spoke about following Jesus and living good lives and doing good, etc.

Some like chapter 8 of Romans and seem to forget all the places where Paul spoke of what not to do.

I don't know.
What do YOU think about this term "born again"?
(not that I don't agree that it's necessary).

Being born again is a biblical position as Jesus mentioned it to Nicodemus.
There is a real sense Jesus is stating the obvious, we can only know Jesus because of a heavenly revelation.

And there is a real realisation of how Jesus being our saviour puts everything else into perspective.
Paul talked about the deposit of the Holy Spirit in our hearts that is a reality of our relationship with Jesus.

The difficulty which in some ways I find troubling is it is all subjective.
The apostles where keen to emphasis the Spirit talking to us and our being convicted of sin and the need to
walk in purity. So the outward fruit of an inward spiritual life is the fruit of the Spirit and a desire to follow.

To differentiate those who have a religion of Christianity and a heart felt change the term born again has been
used.

Psychology has though thrown a wrench into the discussion. Some live their lives in expectation of how others
would like them to appear, but actually do not actually know who they are.

I have met folk, pastors as well who know the words but not how it applies to them.
One I remember asked whether they needed to love others.
Another understood God blesses those who follow Him, but had missed the part they were a sinner who had
been forgiven, so they followed out of love not a desire for rewards. They had adopted a karma view of faith
do good and good will be done unto you. The power of love transforming their hearts had never been
preached or experienced.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Absent even a single verse of scripture to anchor all of this opinion to, I am not even sure exactly what point is being made here?

Could you at least define OSAS as you are using the term, because my bible still says:

• [John 3:16-18 NASB] 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
• [John 10:27-30 NASB] 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."
• [Ephesians 1:13-14 NASB] 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of [God's own] possession, to the praise of His glory.
• [Ephesians 2:4-8 NASB] 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God;
• [Romans 8:28-30 NASB] 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [His] purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to become] conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

All of which seem to give reason for us to believe that “He who began a good work in you will perfect it” [Philippians 1:6] ... or the Saints will indeed Persevere to the end.

What is the point of persevering till the end, of OSAS is true ?