[_ Old Earth _] Faith Healing and Medical Science

[Featherbop]

If I could provide evidence that it was a miracle from God, you would probably explain it in scientific terms..

If it is possible, then of course explaining by natural causes is best. But I think that with something like natural regeneration of a limb, that opens up the possibility of something extra-natural. Not that this really shows there is a supernatural, it just gives a possibility.

The point is to ascertain if miracles happen.

Good luck with that!

Thanks. If you happen to find what I'm looking for though, let me know...

 

[Quath]

People have said there is scientific evidence to prove the 10 plaques in Egypt also. If I could provide evidence that it was a miracle from God, you would probably explain it in scientific terms.. What's the point here?

Heh, interesting you mention that. My wife had seen a documentary in which the 10 plagues had been explained by the natural occurance of volcanic activity. For example, blood river is just iron in the water (rusty looking) which depletes the oxygen and kills the fish. Darkness was due to the soot. The firs born deaths of the Egyptians was explained in an interesting way. The first borns were given the place of honor on the lower level. If carbon dioxide drifted across the land, people on the bottom floors would suffocate. I am not sure how much of this I think really happened, but it was pretty interesting.

 

[Atonement]

Thanks. If you happen to find what I'm looking for though, let me know...

Oh I won't be searching. I'm telling you up front.

As I said "Good luck with that"


Keith

 

[Featherbop]

Oh I won't be searching. I'm telling you up front.

As I said "Good luck with that"


Keith

I just meant you could tell me if you happened upon anything, I knew you weren't going to search.

 

[dancing queen]

There's no point in any of us looking for something.

I read a book (can't remember which, am desperately trying to) which contained the story where a little boy in Africa was raised from the dead. It has a copy of his death certificate etc. in book. But even if you can't explain him coming back to life, you could decide it was an unreliable source and ignore it.

The book 90 minutes in Heaven is the story of a guy pronounced dead after a car crash, and then 90 minutes later (after prayer from a passing Christian) came back to life.

I know a girl who was deaf in one ear. Some friends laid their hands on her one evening and prayed she would be healed and she was. But I guess this isn't good enough either.

A christian friend of my fiance met a girl who had always had back troubles because one leg was shorter than the other. He asked her if she would like the long leg shorter or the short leg longer, she choose, it happened. But why should you trust my stories.

You are never going to be convinced by evidence like this so why ask for it. I suspect that even if a miracle happened in front of you, you would explain it away or have an excuse.

 

[Featherbop]

You are never going to be convinced by evidence like this so why ask for it.

I am never going to be convinced on hearsay, and I did NOT ask for anecdotes with no evidence. I asked for evidence.

I suspect that even if a miracle happened in front of you, you would explain it away or have an excuse.

And I suspect that despite there being no reliable evidence for miracles that you will continue to believe in them.

 

[dancing queen]

I suppose it depends on what you regard as reliable evidence? Whether you are a christian or not will effect this. When a Christian prays that the holy spirit will come and heal someone and it happens, thats quite good evidence for me.

Also, I believed miracles happened just through faith and not experience so that obviously changes things a little.

 

[Featherbop]

I suppose it depends on what you regard as reliable evidence?

There are differeing degrees of evidence and reliability, but in cases such as medical miracles, the more one perceives, the better.

For example, if someone claimed that an amputee was healed and left it at that, that would not be evidence of anything. It is easily fabricated.

If I am shown a story documented in the media of the same case, that would be better. But the media could have been deceived, and with only a news story, I cannot take much from it.

It I were shown before and after photos of an amputee, that would be even better, but could still be fabriacated. I could find an expert on photo altering and try to determine the validity of the pictures.

However, if I saw the natural regeneration of a human limb with my own eyes in person, that would be very convincing. Very difficult to fake, and I would accept that something normally physically impossible happened.

Whether you are a christian or not will effect this.

Agreed. When I was a christian for instance, I would only accept that which was agreeable to my worldview, as I disregarded any evidence not in favor of it.

When a Christian prays that the holy spirit will come and heal someone and it happens, thats quite good evidence for me.

And it would be good evidence for me too! There is a very simple test we can do: I bring a christian an amputee in order for the christian to pray to god to heal him or her. According to the bible, any believer who asks anything in jesus/gods name will receive fulfillment of the prayer. The christian prays that god heals the amputee and that this will show that god does miracles. If the prayer is answered and the amputee is healed, then that would be huge evidence that miracles do happen by some supernatural force.

 

[dancing queen]

The Bible also says do not test God. Plus there is nothing in the bible that says ask and it shall be given to you right there and then. The healing may not occur in this world as you would like.

I understand your searching for evidence, and would never encourage someone to except a miracle as God without considering the possibilities (especially as we are told the devil can also do these things) but I worry that you may miss God in your desire to have such definate evidence.

 

[Quath]

The Bible also says do not test God. Plus there is nothing in the bible that says ask and it shall be given to you right there and then. The healing may not occur in this world as you would like.

I think you need some kind of test. Say a Hindu comes to talk to someone who never heard of any religions. If they said "Believe in Khrisna, but ask me for no evidence." Should they convert to this belief system?

Without any proof, all religions are equal.

 

[Featherbop]

The Bible also says do not test God.

Does god desire humans to believe he exists? If so, then it is counter-productive to require faith. If it cannot be tested, I cannot have any confidence god exists.

Plus there is nothing in the bible that says ask and it shall be given to you right there and then.

But it does say as I have pointed out earlier that a believer can ask and WILL receive anything they ask of jesus/god. There are many preayers that believers pray that do not come true.

The healing may not occur in this world as you would like.

But the bible says that you will receive anything you ask for. Just pray for a healing in this world, and the bible says it will be granted.

I worry that you may miss God in your desire to have such definate evidence.

It is the other way around. If god exists, is omniscient, omnipotent, and desires I believe in him, then god knows what to do.

 

[Atonement]

Where is this thread going? You are asking us to prove God correct? The Bible I read tells us not to test Him, you are asking just that. I see this thread going nowhere. You are asking something that most of us don't really care to search. Maybe you need that clarification for "your" faith, but I'm not like doubting Thomas, I take God on His Word and His Word alone..

You are being argumentative
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