Faith & Hebrews 11

[Edward]

Hebrews 11:1-3 (NKJV)

By Faith We Understand​

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.../

Somehow I got the idea that many people do not really understand what faith is and how it works. Scripture talks about faith like it is an item. Something measured out to us. But we can not see it. We can say, faith means trust. And that is true, but is also so much more than that.

Verse 1 says that faith is the substance. But what does that mean? I know that I have faith but I can not tell you what color it is, or it's shape. It does not have a substance to me in this natural world in the natural sense. So the substance of faith must be a spiritual substance that is used in Heaven by the Lord for our benefit, but we must undertand that we are the source of the faith. The faith substance which the Lord uses for our benefit is created by us and (not ever seen by us) but is put into use by the Lord. That's one of those things that He kept hammering into us all through scripture: have faith, walk in faith. If we don't walk in the faith, then there's no faith substance created.

Doubt me? Peter walked in faith and created it by doing so. He got out of the boat. He put his foot down while trusting that the Lord would allow him to walk on the water. He had trusted before it he was "safe". So He walked on water. Peter provided the faith by his words and actions. The evidence of Peters unseen faith was in overdrive when he had his eyes upon Jesus, and that is what the Lord responds to!

Verse 2, if you do these things, and walk in this faith like this, you will get a great Testimony out of it!

Verse 3, By faith we know that the world and the universe were all framed by the word of God. That is, His spoken word. The tongue carries the power of life and death, and faith, lol! We were created in His image & likeness and everything that Jesus did, we will do and more. Ok? And so it is us that creates the substance of faith that the Lord uses for (material?) to answer your prayers.

So I guess that our faith is our product or fruit that our being produces (or not) in Heaven.

This is my understanding pretty much. What do you think?

 

[for_his_glory]

The faith of Christ in what He believed in the Father is the same faith we have even though we have not seen Christ or the Father, but they are our substance in things hope for and the evidence of things not seen here on earth.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The faith of Christ is understood as we study these scriptures to name a few in the KJV, John 12:44-50; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9). The newer translations has changed where it says faith of Christ to faith in Christ. There is a difference between faith of Christ and faith in Christ as you can read in those scriptures out of the KJV. The faith of Christ is what He believed in the Father as He never said or did anything above that which God gave Him to speak or to do while He was on earth, John 12:49, 50. Our faith in Christ is the same faith of Christ He had in the Father as we can never go above that of what He taught us and the works He left for us to follow in.

The Son of God is that free gift of God's grace given to all who will believe by faith in Christ and confess Him as Lord and Savior so they will see the kingdom of God, Ephesians 2:8-10; John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10. There is no working towards something that is free as all we have to do is accept the gift. Believe is a verb that means something we consider to be true as we have heard the Gospel and not only heard it, but also believe what is written for our well being.

Faith works come after we are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit that empowers us to go out into the world and continue in the good works of the Lord, Acts 2:37, 38; James 2:14-20. The good works are taking His Gospel message to the world as we too are His disciples and to love and help those in need as what we do we do unto the glory of the Lord Christ Jesus, Matthew 25:31-40

 

[stovebolts]

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Verse 1 says that faith is the substance. But what does that mean? I know that I have faith but I can not tell you what color it is, or it's shape. It does not have a substance to me in this natural world in the natural sense. So the substance of faith must be a spiritual substance that is used in Heaven by the Lord

I think you skipped right over the second part of the passage.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. If you could see something, it would no longer be hoped for because once it is seen, it has been realized.

Chapter 11 of Hebrews is, as you know the hallmark of the great people before us that all hoped, and believed enough that one day, those things hoped for would be realized. As a result, their faith prompted them to action.

In Jewish culture, a disciple believed that he could be like his Rabbi. As a result, we see Peter with this faith. He hoped to be like Jesus, and believed he could do what Jesus did. So, when he saw Jesus walking on the water, he didn’t hesitate to get out of the boat. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. Peter stepped out of the boat in faith and that action was evidence of things unseen.

 

[Edward]

I think you skipped right over the second part of the passage.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. If you could see something, it would no longer be hoped for because once it is seen, it has been realized.

Chapter 11 of Hebrews is, as you know the hallmark of the great people before us that all hoped, and believed enough that one day, those things hoped for would be realized. As a result, their faith prompted them to action.

In Jewish culture, a disciple believed that he could be like his Rabbi. As a result, we see Peter with this faith. He hoped to be like Jesus, and believed he could do what Jesus did. So, when he saw Jesus walking on the water, he didn’t hesitate to get out of the boat. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. Peter stepped out of the boat in faith and that action was evidence of things unseen.

I don't know where we crossed wires, but that's pretty mmuch what I was explaining. You just said it differently.

I called attention to the term substance, because that is what God called it, a substance. Wouldn't that be a tangible item? (In the spiritual realm)

 

[Edward]

The faith of Christ in what He believed in the Father is the same faith we have even though we have not seen Christ or the Father, but they are our substance in things hope for and the evidence of things not seen here on earth.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The faith of Christ is understood as we study these scriptures to name a few in the KJV, John 12:44-50; Galatians 2:16; Philippians 3:9). The newer translations has changed where it says faith of Christ to faith in Christ. There is a difference between faith of Christ and faith in Christ as you can read in those scriptures out of the KJV. The faith of Christ is what He believed in the Father as He never said or did anything above that which God gave Him to speak or to do while He was on earth, John 12:49, 50. Our faith in Christ is the same faith of Christ He had in the Father as we can never go above that of what He taught us and the works He left for us to follow in.

The Son of God is that free gift of God's grace given to all who will believe by faith in Christ and confess Him as Lord and Savior so they will see the kingdom of God, Ephesians 2:8-10; John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10. There is no working towards something that is free as all we have to do is accept the gift. Believe is a verb that means something we consider to be true as we have heard the Gospel and not only heard it, but also believe what is written for our well being.

Faith works come after we are Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit that empowers us to go out into the world and continue in the good works of the Lord, Acts 2:37, 38; James 2:14-20. The good works are taking His Gospel message to the world as we too are His disciples and to love and help those in need as what we do we do unto the glory of the Lord Christ Jesus, Matthew 25:31-40

I'm'a still chewing on your post.

 

[stovebolts]

I don't know where we crossed wires, but that's pretty mmuch what I was explaining. You just said it differently.

I went back and reread what you wrote and I now understand a little better what you were trying to relate.

I called attention to the term substance, because that is what God called it, a substance. Wouldn't that be a tangible item? (In the spiritual realm)

Yeah, and that’s what threw me lol!
You’ve heard me repeat this over the years and this is a great example. You can’t separate the physical from the spiritual.

In verse three, it reminds me of if the creation account. I believe the Greek word is Hyly or something like that. Hyly is the substance which all matter is created from. Essentially, it’s meaning is to create something from nothing.

Within this thought we might consider Gods origin in terms that God has always been. And so God takes nothing, and creates something. That something is called Hyly (sp). That something was something hoped for, yet at the time unseen. In this same way then, is it possible that those in the hall of faith (Hebrews 11) hoped for what we now see, yet we hope for a day when every tear is wiped away and all is restored in our glorified bodies.

Spiritually, do you think that our faith is similar.

 

[T. E. Smith]

That word "substance" does not have a clear meaning. Of the possible meanings:

• Certainty
• Substance/reality
• Evidence
• Manifestation

Perhaps he intends all meanings. Faith is the outward working of one's certainty in something, perhaps.

 

[Randy]

When they lowered their companion through an opening they made in a roof so that he would be before the Lord for healing that action was evidence of saving faith. As by faith they lowered the paralyzed man before the Lord.
Jesus saw that genuine/sincere faith and that man obtained more than a bodily healing as his sins were forgiven and it is salvation by the forgiveness of sins.

A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2 They gathered in such large numbers that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3 Some men came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. 4 Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

 

[Edward]

That word "substance" does not have a clear meaning. Of the possible meanings:

• Certainty
• Substance/reality
• Evidence
• Manifestation

Perhaps he intends all meanings. Faith is the outward working of one's certainty in something, perhaps.

...

 

[Edward]

I went back and reread what you wrote and I now understand a little better what you were trying to relate.

Yeah, and that’s what threw me lol!
You’ve heard me repeat this over the years and this is a great example. You can’t separate the physical from the spiritual.

In verse three, it reminds me of if the creation account. I believe the Greek word is Hyly or something like that. Hyly is the substance which all matter is created from. Essentially, it’s meaning is to create something from nothing.

Within this thought we might consider Gods origin in terms that God has always been. And so God takes nothing, and creates something. That something is called Hyly (sp). That something was something hoped for, yet at the time unseen. In this same way then, is it possible that those in the hall of faith (Hebrews 11) hoped for what we now see, yet we hope for a day when every tear is wiped away and all is restored in our glorified bodies.

Spiritually, do you think that our faith is similar.

Yes I do think it is similar and I'm speculating if a substance is created in (both realms) when we act in faith. Only we don't get to see the substance in the natural realm, just the evidence!

 

[T. E. Smith]

...

What's the problem? You'll find all these translations in different Bible versions as well as in a Greek lexicon.

Wait, maybe your problem has to do with my religious preference? Hey, when the Bible tells me to have faith... I like to actually research what that faith is that I'm supposed to have. Make sense?

 

[Edward]

What's the problem? You'll find all these translations in different Bible versions as well as in a Greek lexicon.

Wait, maybe your problem has to do with my religious preference? Hey, when the Bible tells me to have faith... I like to actually research what that faith is that I'm supposed to have. Make sense?

...