Imagine someone who grew up and never was exposed to religion or thoughts of the universe (sort of a blank slate). Now imagine that a line of people approaching this person to try to get them to believe their theory of the universe.
This might be a cliche, but... Helen Keller. I'm pretty sure that the understanding of a God is there once children begin to reach an age at which they open their mind and lift their eyes from the pasture to the horizon.
I think I know where you're coming from, Quath. Perhaps it's hard for you to join a certain religion partly because there are so many out there and it's akin to crying wolf. But in that case, I would say use the process of elimination to determine which would be the most logical religion that you would align yourself with should you ever wish to join one.
It would be a long process, but hardly anything worthwhile comes easily, right?
So in a sense science stands out as not needing faith and just following where the observations and evidence leads.
For average John Doe's like myself, though, we have to have faith in those presenting their science to us if we should ever wish to believe in anything. We use faith every day and invest a great deal of it in our fellow man unless we are well versed in the particular field of study which scientists are presenting.
If a god messed with the material world, then there should be evidence left behind.
How do you know that the evidence is not staring you in the face each and every day, though? It goes back to my question of, given the unknown when it comes to the creation of the universe, why does the atheist choose to believe in natural causes or simply nothing rather than God or a higher intelligence if both may be equally plausible? Now I'm not saying that I believe that both are equally plausible. I'm just wondering which you believe is more logical in that scenario and why?
For example, if God answers prayers, then that is a scientific statement. I should be able to observe this.
Well, I believe that I have observed it. Of course you can call it coincidence if you feel like it or use opposing explanations to explain it without involving God.
My older bro and I were sleeping in bunk beds one night in Hawaii. He was on the bottom and I was on the top bunk. We still hadn't fallen asleep yet. Anyway, my bro calls out for my dad because something upset him. It turns out that he told my dad that he saw a hand reach up from under his bed and pull the covers back. I think he described it as a 'green' hand. My dad asked him if he had prayed that night and he said that he hadn't. After that, my dad went back to his room. Was it the power of mental suggestion? Had we watched a horror movie that night?
I, personally, can't remember. But
pulling the covers back, where there's physical action, is more than imagination. Was he dreaming? Did he half dream it while he was awake and sleepy? When I came back to that house after a few years of being away, I was alone in the backyard. Coconuts always used to fall off the trees into our yard. One time they smashed my dad's plants that he was trying to grow. Lol. Anyway, one of the neighbor kids came up to me out of the blue and asked me if the house was haunted. I didn't know him. I didn't know where he could have gotten the idea that it was. Anyway, I told him that it wasn't, but I hadn't remembered this incident at the time.
Another time, my grandmother was in a witch's house just doing business with her. She was buying milk, selling it or some other oddity that she's done throughout her life and that we've often done together. ;) Anyway, she steps into the house and while the witch (I use 'witch' because I don't know if she was a wiccan or a member of another religion) is off getting something. She notices a low-hanging black smoke that moves in the corner of one room. Suddenly she gets the urge to get out of the room. She doesn't stay long in the house. Could the smoke have been caused by a heavy low-hanging incense that the witch burns? Was the smoke just there by itself?
Yet another time, my mom was living in a trailor during the first part of her somewhat dissolute life away from home. Some things to consider - she may have been taking drugs. I think she may have been drinking. Maybe she smoked too. At any rate, she had been reading a horror novel. When she decided to hit the sack finally, something appeared to her. It was a smoky form that confronted her. She somehow ended up asking it who had invited it, and it pointed to the book that she had been reading. Was she under the influence at this time? Was she hallucinating? I consider this to be one of the less substantial stories that I've been told first hand.
A friend of mine, who I know across the internet as a former priest, was performing some sort of ritual - maybe a cleansing of demons, etc. - on a house one time. He remarked to me - not to me specifically, but I later contacted him about it - that he had nearly been thrown through a wall by supposedly nothing that was there. I don't know him in real life, so I don't know if he's lying or not.
Now, all these stories I haven't experienced first-hand. I've just heard them from others. I haven't seen any demons, angels, etc. etc. However, I did pray one time for my younger bro (half brother) that his father would come home to him. His father hadn't seen him since he was like four years old or around that age. He was about 13 at the time I prayed I think. This was about a year or so ago. Several months after my prayer, his dad showed up at our house. It turns out that he had walked through some states and ridden a bike for a while as well in order to reach us where we lived. When he got to where we lived, he found out that we had moved. So he went from house to house, knocking on the doors and asking others where we had moved to. In fact, we had moved three times since last he had shown up. At any rate, he finally found us. Could this have been a coincidence? Or did God really answer my prayer immediately when I prayed and it just took a little while for the results to come through? Did his dad just decide it was about time for another visit? I do remember that beforehand he had visited us a few years prior, but my younger brother wasn't there so he didn't get to see him before he disappeared again.
