Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

  • Looking to grow in the word of God more?

    See our Bible Studies and Devotionals sections in Christian Growth

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

  • How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?

    Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject

    https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042

Bible Study Faith & Works....A Balanced Team

J

Jay T

Guest
"Without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6).

There are many in the Christian world who claim that all that is necessary to salvation is to have faith; works are nothing, faith is the only essential.

But God's Word tells us that faith without works is dead, being alone.
Many refuse to obey God's commandments, yet they make a great deal of faith. But faith must have a foundation.

God's promises are all made upon conditions.

If we do His will, if we walk in truth, then we may ask what we will, and it shall be done unto us. While we earnestly endeavor to be obedient, God will hear our petitions; but He will not bless us in disobedience. If we choose to disobey His commandments, we may cry, "Faith, faith, only have faith," and the response will come back from the sure Word of God, "Faith without works is dead" (James 2:20).

Such faith will only be as sounding brass and as a tinkling cymbal.
In order to have the benefits of God's grace we must do our part; we must faithfully work and bring forth fruits meet for repentance.

We are workers together with God. You are not to sit in indolence, waiting for some great occasion, in order to do a great work for the Master. You are not to neglect the duty that lies directly in your pathway, but you are to improve the little opportunities that open around you. . . .


To Wrestle, Labor, and Strive

We are to do all that we can do on our part to fight the good fight of faith. We are to wrestle, to labor, to strive, to agonize to enter in at the strait gate.
We are to set the Lord ever before us. With clean hands, with pure hearts, we are to seek to honor God in all our ways.

Help has been provided for us in Him who is mighty to save.
The spirit of truth and light will quicken and renew us by its mysterious workings; for all our spiritual improvement comes from God, not from ourselves. T
he true worker will have divine power to aid him, but the idler will not be sustained by the Spirit of God.


In one way we are thrown upon our own energies; we are to strive earnestly to be zealous and to repent, to cleanse our hands and purify our hearts from every defilement; we are to reach the highest standard, believing that God will help us in our efforts.

We must seek if we would find, and seek in faith; we must knock, that the door may be opened unto us.
The Bible teaches that everything regarding our salvation depends upon our own course of action. If we perish, the responsibility will rest wholly upon ourselves.

If provision has been made, and if we accept God's terms, we may lay hold on eternal life. We must come to Christ in faith, we must be diligent to make our calling and election sure.

The forgiveness of sin is promised to him who repents and believes; the crown of life will be the reward of him who is faithful to the end.
We may grow in grace by improving through the grace we already have.

We are to keep ourselves unspotted from the world if we would be found blameless in the day of God. Faith and works go hand in hand; they act harmoniously in the work of overcoming.

Works without faith are dead, and faith without works is dead.
Works will never save us; it is the merit of Christ that will avail in our behalf.

Through faith in Him, Christ will make all our imperfect efforts acceptable to God. The faith we are required to have is not a do-nothing faith; saving faith is that which works by love and purifies the soul.

He who will lift up holy hands to God without wrath and doubting will walk intelligently in the way of God's commandments.

If we are to have pardon for our sins, we must first have a realization of what sin is, that we may repent and bring forth fruits meet for repentance. We must have a solid foundation for our faith; it must be founded on the Word of God, and its results will be seen in obedience to God's expressed will. Says the apostle, "Without . . . [holiness] no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

Faith and works will keep us evenly balanced and make us successful in the work of perfecting Christian character. Jesus says, "Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter in the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).

Speaking of temporal food, the apostle said, "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat" (2 Thessalonians 3:10).
The same rule applies to our spiritual nourishment; if any would have the bread of eternal life, let him make efforts to obtain it.

We are living in an important and interesting period of this earth's history. We need more faith than we have yet had; we need a firmer hold from above. Satan is working with all power to obtain the victory over us, for he knows that he has but a short time in which to work.

Paul had fear and trembling in working out his salvation; and should not we fear lest a promise being left us, we should any of us seem to come short of it, and prove ourselves unworthy of eternal life?

We should watch unto prayer, strive with agonizing effort to enter in at the strait gate.
 
Again, Christianity takes about as much work as thanking someone from rescuing us from a burning fire. :) The true believer performs good works with his left hand without his right hand knowing what the left hand is doing. The true Christian doesn't take credit for his works, he gives the credit to God and God alone. :)
 
Jay, what happens when the scale tips one way too far, do you lose your reward?

Since the balancing act is something you do, Grace is no longer Grace.
 
JM said:
Jay, what happens when the scale tips one way too far, do you lose your reward?

Since the balancing act is something you do, Grace is no longer Grace.


I am reminded of a story of a man, on top of his house, during a flood [think Katrina]....The water is climbing up the house, and the man is definately in danger of drowning if left alone...

Some guys in a boat come by, and tell the man to get into the boat. The man refuses, saying "I have faith in God. I won't drown." The guys in the boat reluctanty leave....

The water is now lapping on the roof top, the man on top of his chimney, the wind is picking up, and a another boat [Coast Guard] comes by...."Get in" ordered the man. "I have faith in God. I won't drown." replys the man and waves them off. The Coast Guard reluctantly leaves, but orders a helicopter for later.

The water climbs up the chimney, and the man is wrapped around his TV antana, when the helicopter comes by with a rope ladder swinging from the side. "I have faith in God. I won't drown" yells the man, and waves them off.

Well, the man drowns and is at the throne room of God. "Why did I drown, God? I had faith in you, and it looks like You let me down.". God replys, "What do you mean, I let you down? I sent 2 boats and a helicopter. What more did you want?"

Faith and works go hand in hand....

Paul says that if works alone will not get you into heaven... James says that belief alone will not get you into heaven....

A worker works....A swimer swims...a builder builds....a teacher teach..... A therapist works therapy...A doctor heals....

But what is a person called if he has faith?
 
Nice story, really, but it falls apart. I agree that faith and works go hand in hand but Jay always suggests that man must work to hold onto the gift. The man in your story would have to be in the boat to start with, jump out and die, then ask God why didn't you save me. If we are in Christ we're already in the boat. We are saved. Now, lets get the work done that God commands of us to do. :D
 
The bride of Christ will come out of those who not only see the kingdom
(John 3:3) but those who enter the kingdom (John 3:5). Briefly, entering
the kingdom literally means to enter into the King’s dominion and refers
to reigning and ruling with Jesus Christ. Seeing the kingdom means to
enter heaven and applies to all Christians. All Christians will see the
kingdom, but not all Christians will enter the kingdom. Seeing the kingdom
is of grace only. Entering the kingdom is contingent upon works which can
be summarized by one word, obedience.

Rev 21:7-8 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God,
and he shall be my son.8 But the fearful, and unbelieving (i.e., unfaithful),
and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and
idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire
and brimstone: which is the second death. Verses 1-5 of chapter 21 are
referring to the end of the millennium. Verse 6 depicts salvation as a free gift
(i.e., salvation by grace) while verse 7 pertains to overcoming believers who
will have an inheritance in the kingdom of heaven (rewards according to works).
Verse 8 pertains to believers who have lost their inheritance in the kingdom
because of unconfessed sin and disobedience. These carnal Christians who
have not submitted to progressive sanctification will be forcefully sanctified
by fire. They will suffer loss (1 Cor 3:15).
 
And I quote:

one is by faith, the other by fancy
one is by Grace, the other by merit
one is by faith, the other is by works
one is Christianity, the other is religion.

I see the work of Christ on the Cross as DONE, or finished.
 
And I too see the work of Christ's death and resurrection completed upon the cross. His work is NOT done however. There's still much left for Him to do.

So, that which has been plainly offered above is ignored for what purpose. Scripture has been quoted and it's not the sort that takes a whole lot of discernment to understand. Most is quite plain. The reward is offered to those that 'deserve it'. NO, not by simply asking Christ into ones heart. But, by following that which God has seen fit to offer us of His will.

We even have an example of those that will have done much in His name, but for the wrong reason. When they step to Christ boasting of all the wonderful things that they have done in His name. What is His answer to them? He states that He 'doesn't even know them'. Not only has their work been done in vain, but Christ NEVER even knew them.

With this in mind, can we really ignore that which we've been commanded and still expect to receive anything other than our 'just rewards'? Can we really 'just live our lives' like the world is our comforter and expect anything other than what the rest of the world will receive?

We were told to pick up Christ's cross and follow Him. We were told that for His names sake we would suffer. We were told to separate ourselves from the world. We were told to offer ALL that we have for others.

I contend that anyone that has 'true' faith understands what is expected of them. That our job is not to spend our time trying to please ourselves. Not to worry only about that which brings our own happiness. But to seek out those in need and offer what we can to make their lives easier to bare. We are to do away with our idols and love God above all else. And there is absolutely NO WAY that one can say that they love someone that they are unwilling to do for. God gave us a list of what we are to do 'if we love Him'. Is there any way to actually love Him without following His will? And wouldn't following His will be 'works' of sorts? So, as stated above, wouldn't it take a measure of both faith and works in order to receive that which has been promised IF we follow the will of God? And what right would one that refuses this have to ask for ANYTHING other than what they are due?

There are those that believe that they can command that which God has offered. How foolish of ANY man to believe or teach others that we are able to demand ANYTHING of God. God does as He sees fit and rarely does this concern anything other than His will. He blesses those that follow the Word. Those that love Him above all else and their neighbors as themselves. Any apparent blessings received by those that do NOT offer what has been commanded, receive those 'seeming' blessings from some place or someone or something other than God.

Yes, without doubt, faith without works is dead. For the fruit will follow them that 'truly' believe.
 
Grace is never given to those who do not admit their sin,
grace is given to those who admit they are sinners and
believe what God has said about their condition

and I quote:

No longer will the Truth be delayed or hidden
But disclosed and open for all to hear and see
Many will gnash and many will fall to their knees
Forced to acknowledge the King of Kings
 
And I too see the work of Christ's death and resurrection completed upon the cross. His work is NOT done however. There's still much left for Him to do.

This is your presupposition and your mistake.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Christ had made the offering, and is now seated.

How can you keep a "balance" when we have a "law" that is always present when you do good? Explain it.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
 
JM said:
And I too see the work of Christ's death and resurrection completed upon the cross. His work is NOT done however. There's still much left for Him to do.

[quote:71725]This is your presupposition and your mistake.
[/quote:71725]The Old Testament Sanctuary on earth, made by Moses was but a 'copy' of the GREAT original in heaven.
Jesus Christ is in the heavenly Sanctuary now, as High Priest, doing the final work in man's salvation...as found in the books of Hebrews and Revelation.
 
I know I said this before, but I will repeat it: If a person is a true Christian, then that person will want to do works for God. He is not doing them because he HAS to, but because he WANTS to.
 
ChristineES said:
I know I said this before, but I will repeat it: If a person is a true Christian, then that person will want to do works for God. He is not doing them because he HAS to, but because he WANTS to.

Yep. But what would make a person WANT to?
 
mutzrein said:
ChristineES said:
I know I said this before, but I will repeat it: If a person is a true Christian, then that person will want to do works for God. He is not doing them because he HAS to, but because he WANTS to.

Yep. But what would make a person WANT to?

If you love someone, then you will want to please that person. If a person really loves God, that person will want to please God, by worshipping him and doing His will. What they actually do is between that person and God.
 
ChristineES said:
mutzrein said:
ChristineES said:
I know I said this before, but I will repeat it: If a person is a true Christian, then that person will want to do works for God. He is not doing them because he HAS to, but because he WANTS to.

Yep. But what would make a person WANT to?

If you love someone, then you will want to please that person. If a person really loves God, that person will want to please God, by worshipping him and doing His will. What they actually do is between that person and God.
That is the reason I keep the 4th commandment (7th day Sabbath), because of what Jesus Christ said: "IF..you love me, keep my commandments", (John 14:15).
Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a [sign] between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.
 
ChristineES said:
mutzrein said:
ChristineES said:
I know I said this before, but I will repeat it: If a person is a true Christian, then that person will want to do works for God. He is not doing them because he HAS to, but because he WANTS to.

Yep. But what would make a person WANT to?

If you love someone, then you will want to please that person. If a person really loves God, that person will want to please God, by worshipping him and doing His will. What they actually do is between that person and God.

Yes of course you are right Christine. Another step then. How is it that a person would love God?
 
mutzrein said:
ChristineES said:
mutzrein said:
ChristineES said:
I know I said this before, but I will repeat it: If a person is a true Christian, then that person will want to do works for God. He is not doing them because he HAS to, but because he WANTS to.

Yep. But what would make a person WANT to?

If you love someone, then you will want to please that person. If a person really loves God, that person will want to please God, by worshipping him and doing His will. What they actually do is between that person and God.

Yes of course you are right Christine. Another step then. How is it that a person would love God?

People love God because He is God. Jesus died for us, he suffered death and tremedous pain for us. I don't see how I can not love Him, or anyone else who becomes a Christian either. But that is not the only reason to love God. All I have to do is look around and see God. Look at every tree and every mountain and every newborn baby to see God's work. And on top of that, He loves us!! Unconditionally! God is Love as the scripture says, any love comes from God. If anyone loves, it comes from The Lord. And because God loves me, and I love God, then I want to do what is right, and I would think that anyone would!! All true Christians I have known have that kind of love, it is in their being, because God (through Jesus) gave it to them!! I know that My Lord will never leave me, He never has. I feel His presence is whatever I do!! That faith I have in Him, brings me boundless joy!! That is why I want to do what is right.
 
Jay T said:
JM said:
And I too see the work of Christ's death and resurrection completed upon the cross. His work is NOT done however. There's still much left for Him to do.

[quote:97ef2]This is your presupposition and your mistake.
The Old Testament Sanctuary on earth, made by Moses was but a 'copy' of the GREAT original in heaven.
Jesus Christ is in the heavenly Sanctuary now, as High Priest, doing the final work in man's salvation...as found in the books of Hebrews and Revelation.
[/quote:97ef2]

Nope. Christ is done with the offering. I deny the SAD teaching, “…[O]ur High Priest enters the holy of holies [in 1844]…to perform the work of investigative judgement and to make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits… Every man’s work passes in review before God and is registered for faithfulness or unfaithfulness…"

"...now once in the end of the world hath (past) he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" v.26.

"cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

"he had by himself purged our sins." Hebrews 1:3

"yet now hath he reconciled..." Colossians 1:21

"having forgiven you all trespasses." Colossians 2:13

It's been done, trust and abide.
 
gingercat said:
Solo said:
gingercat said:
Solo,

If you can not see God in my family's life you are pretty blind. I feel sorry for you.

His servant, hitomi
Quit attacking believers that are having fruitful lives in Churches across this world, and start praying for them instead of attacking them.

My wife's family come from poor means. My family comes from poor means. My father's income was less than $8000 per year when he had five children to raise. I started digging ditches and climbing poles for a living, and worked my way up to a position of managment in a company that I was the first of my family to participate in. God has blessed me in my finances throughout my life and will continue. If I make $10 a week, the Bible teaches that I should be content with that $10.

Your main objective on this forum so far seems to be one of attacking those that attend church, those that have money, and those that know the Bible. What gives with that?

Solo, do you know that not everyone who calls Him Lord will go into His kingdom? Do you know that many needy believers are abondoned by wealthy christians? Do you know that the Bible tells us to expose the evil deeds of darkness? Do you know that most churches are trying to hide the evil deeds instead of exposing them? Do you know that you dont like me because I am telling the reality of many churches? Do you know that you are fighting against all other denominations and supporting your own denomination?

So, dont let the corrupt of humans bury the truth of God. It's no point to use the corrupt of humans as an attack to His Body and Christianity.

Because the corrupt of people in churches wont justify the saying that "the churches are wrong", similarly the justifying does not exist to say that because the wrong deeds of some Christians (wealthy or not) that Christianity is wrong.

Correct me if I take your implication wrong.
 
Solo said:
I do not fight against denominations. I stand for the truth and alert others to steer clear of the false teachings that have crept in. Your position is one of division and shows no love of Jesus Christ. I do not know you enough to not like you. I do not like your attacks on Christians and churches. Your attacks on these show little guidence from the holy Spirit.

Whenever they lost a single arguement, they have to resort themselves to a "you rebuke me, you judge me" circular arguement, instead of a re-think of the original arguement itself. No matter what tactics they are going to apply, a truth will finally stand a truth.

God bless you, solo.
 
Back
Top