false prophets

[Alfred Persson]

The

Alfred Persson said:

I don't believe the distinction you make holds up. While it is correct all telepathic communication to the flesh brain is demonic. That is illustrated by the following text, the devil comes and can mimic a person's "inner voice" to disguise it is him arguing against God. He can also cause images and thoughts that contradict the gospel, "taking away" the word from their hearts (2 Cor. 2:11) :

11 "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 "Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Lk. 8:11-12 NKJ)

Tenchi said:
The passage from Luke above doesn't say anything about demonic "telepathic communication to the flesh brain." Rather than inserting something into a person's "flesh brain," Jesus's words from the Gospel of Luke above indicate the devil takes "the word" out of a person's heart. I don't understand, then, why you offered the Luke 8 verses in support of your claim about devilish "telepathic communication." Jesus is saying the opposite of what you're claiming he's saying...

Alfred Persson said:
Idiomatically it says precisely that. The gospel is preached, people hear with ears, think about it with their mind. The "mind" exists in the organ of the brain, not in a literal heart beating in a person's chest.

When Christ said “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks” (Mt. 12:34), the “heart” isn’t literally speaking. Its idiom.

People hear the gospel preached. Then they think about it with their minds, their brain. The devil cannot reach into literal hearts and yank stuff out of there. If he could, you would die.


Alfred Persson said:
Paul also speaks of this telepathic deception that affects the physical organ of the brain. "He who comes preaching another Jesus" can include "a different spirit":
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted-- you may well put up with it! (2 Cor. 11:3-4 NKJ)

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. (Gal. 1:8 NKJ)

Tenchi said:
Paul says in the 2 Corinthians 11 passage that the minds of his readers might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ by the believers at Corinth listening to the preaching of another Jesus whom Paul did not preach, or receiving a "different spirit, or a "different Gospel," from what they had received from Paul. But there is nothing about "telepathic deception" in Paul's remarks. Paul appears to be referring in verses 3-4, not to demonic agents working on a telepathic level, but to human ones speaking out loud, which he confirmed later in the chapter when he wrote:

Alfred Persson said:
Hate to break the news, but minds use the organ of the brain to think, reason. Therefore, a corruption of the mind begins first with the organ of the brain.


Tenchi said:
Paul didn't write anything about the "telepathic messaging" of Satan in this passage. He said only that the devil - the "god of this world" - had blinded the minds of Paul's contemporaries. How? Paul didn't say explicitly, but implied that this was done, at least in part, by way of the neglect of the preaching of the Gospel. It wasn't that the Gospel shone on the unbelieving and they rejected it, but that the light of the Gospel was kept from them lest, shining on them, it should save them.

Alfred Persson said:
That’s correct, not explicitly. But when he says demons blind minds, they do so by flooding the brain with disinformation. They do that telepathically. Spirits don’t have physical mouths, they are spirits. Words require breath, vocal cords, things a spirit is presumed not to have. So they communicate telepathically.

Alfred Persson said:
BUT the Holy Spirit speaks to our spirit, bypassing the fleshly organ of the brain, in a "non verbal" communication. But I wouldn't rule out He might use words on occasion (Acts. 13:2-4).

Acts 13:2
2 While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."

Tenchi said:
Where is it said in this verse that the Holy Spirit spoke to the "prophets and teachers" gathered at Antioch by "bypassing the fleshly organ of the brain, in a non-verbal communication"? Nowhere. This is entirely an assumption one must read into the passage, not draw out of it.

Alfred Persson said:
Who is talking about prophets? The Holy Spirit spoke verbally to the disciples during this event. You said He doesn’t do that, you are wrong.

Alfred Persson said:
Our spirits "know what God is saying" without words, just as we "know we are the children of God" without words:
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, (Rom. 8:16 NKJ)

Tenchi said:
Again, you've read into Scripture what isn't there. Romans 8:16 does not mean the Holy Spirit communicates with our own spirit "without words," "bypassing the fleshly organ of the brain." What it means is that the Holy Spirit acts upon the person within whom He dwells such that they know He is there and that they are, therefore, one of God's children. The Holy Spirit:

Alfred Persson said:
Christians “know” (in a non verbal way), God is their Father. That’s the point I made, nothing more. And you contradict yourself, using “they know” just as I did, and it doesn’t involve verbal speech.

The distinction you tried to make is absurd, the mind cannot be reasoned with, apart from the physical organ of the brain.

The absurd rejection of idioms in scripture that also exist in our culture and are used everyday, is indefensible.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The passage from Luke above doesn't say anything about demonic "telepathic communication to the flesh brain." Rather than inserting something into a person's "flesh brain," Jesus's words from the Gospel of Luke above indicate the devil takes "the word" out of a person's heart. I don't understand, then, why you offered the Luke 8 verses in support of your claim about devilish "telepathic communication." Jesus is saying the opposite of what you're claiming he's saying...

Idiomatically, taking things from the heart is removing them from a person's mind, which involves the organ of the brain. Likewise the heart speaking through the mouth, that is idiom for the brain speaking, moving the lips, tongue, vocal cords.

34 "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. (Matt. 12:34 NKJ)

Isaiah 1:18
18 "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.

In emulation of God, the apostle Paul also reasoned often with his Jewish brethren:

Acts 17:1-2
1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, (See also: Acts 18:19; 24:25)




The human conscience is "the law of God written on the heart" (Romans 2:15), possessed of all human beings with a properly-functioning mind/brain. The conscience isn't, then, the unique possession of the Christian through which the Spirit "speaks" to them. Just like the unsaved person, the Christian person can develop a seared conscience as they ignore the pangs of their conscience, hardening into sin just like the unbeliever does. The conscience, then, isn't by any means a certain avenue through which the Spirit directs the believer. And, too, the pangs of one's conscience aren't distinct words from the Holy Spirit spoken in the mind of a person.



I don't see how this passage from 1 Corinthians 2 bears out the assertion to which you've attached it. There is a Spirit-controlled and ordered mind and there is a natural, fleshly mind. The former is the possession of the born-again person, the latter the possession of the spiritually-unregenerate person. In both cases, though, it is the believer's MIND that is either spiritual or fleshly (natural). Paul emphasizes this at the end of the passage above, writing of the MIND of Christ that is the possession only of the born-again person.

It is entirely read into the passage that, when Paul wrote of the Spirit not speaking in "words which man's wisdom teaches," that he meant that the Spirit, therefore, "speaks" to believers by way of a subconscious "knowing that they should do something." At most, all that can be derived from Paul's words in verse 13 is that the Spirit will not speak to us the wisdom of Man, human wisdom, but supernatural wisdom, the "things of God." Paul does not imply that in not teaching human wisdom, the Holy Spirit circumvents the mind, speaking to the believer wordlessly. Such an idea must be forced into his words, not drawn out of them.



This is gnosticism. Beware.



This is nowhere indicated in God's word.



Again, this is very gnostic and, as such, a dangerous departure from God's Truth.

When you obey God, do you do so only in a spirit realm, separated from your physical form? Did Paul pursue God's will for him apart from his physical body? Or did Paul endure beatings, and starvation, and imprisonment for Christ in his physical body? Was it Paul's spirit that traveled to the various Gentile churches in Asia Minor? Or did Paul use his legs and feet to walk to these churches, and his mouth to speak to them God's truth, and his eyes to see them and witness their fellowship with one another in the Lord? Only out from under the control of the Spirit is my body "unclean," a source of sinful impulse. Constantly under the Spirit's control, my body, my flesh, acts in the way God intended it to, my hands serving Him by serving others, my mouth speaking His truth in love and boldness, my eyes filled with the Light of His eternal truth, and so on.

Your charges of Gnosticism are absurd. I cited Paul's words, is he a gnostic?

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; f (Rom. 7:18 NKJ)

Paul's words are clear to those led by the Spirit. They would be obscure only to those who aren't:

NKJ Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. (Rom. 8:1-9 NKJ)

Walking according to the flesh is to be carnally minded, which means it involves the organ of the brain. That is how "prince of the power of the air" rules the world, by telepathically influencing carnal minds to do evil and perversion:

NKJ Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
(Eph. 2:1-3 NKJ)

Everyone is "tempted" telepathically by the devil and his demons. When you enter a friends house and see a pile of money, telepathically a demon tempter will suggest "steal it." As you shake that horrible thought out of your mind, you might wonder "where did that come from?" It came from the Tempter, telepathically.

This doesn't deny it can come from an evil human heart. But I'm talking about believers, not unbelievers.

 

[Tenchi]

Tenchi said:
The passage from Luke above doesn't say anything about demonic "telepathic communication to the flesh brain." Rather than inserting something into a person's "flesh brain," Jesus's words from the Gospel of Luke above indicate the devil takes "the word" out of a person's heart. I don't understand, then, why you offered the Luke 8 verses in support of your claim about devilish "telepathic communication." Jesus is saying the opposite of what you're claiming he's saying...

Alfred Persson said:
Idiomatically it says precisely that. The gospel is preached, people hear with ears, think about it with their mind. The "mind" exists in the organ of the brain, not in a literal heart beating in a person's chest.

When Christ said “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks” (Mt. 12:34), the “heart” isn’t literally speaking. Its idiom.

People hear the gospel preached. Then they think about it with their minds, their brain. The devil cannot reach into literal hearts and yank stuff out of there. If he could, you would die.

You didn't understand my remarks. The passage in Luke 8 that you cited spoke of the devil snatching the
"seed" out of the minds of people, not putting things into their minds. How, then, does Luke 8:11-12 establish your idea that the devil communicates telepathically with the "flesh brain"? Why must taking something out of a person's mind require "telepathic communication"?

How do you know where a person's mind exists? It's immaterial: It can't be weighed, or boiled, or examined under a microscope so how, then, is it possible to say where, exactly, it is located? The mind is connected to the brain, yes, but this doesn't mean that the mind is the brain, or has a physical location in the tissues of the brain. Thousands of NDE's (near-death experiences) defy the notion that the mind (consciousness) and the brain are one-and-same thing, or that the mind exists only so long as the brain functions. What part of Lazarus and the Rich Man went on into eternity? Christ's parable clearly indicated that the consciousness (composed of mind and spirit) of both men endured beyond the death of their brains.

I've not indicated that the mind of a person is a literal, physical thing. Why, then, are you addressing my remarks here as though I had?

Tenchi said:
Paul says in the 2 Corinthians 11 passage that the minds of his readers might be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ by the believers at Corinth listening to the preaching of another Jesus whom Paul did not preach, or receiving a "different spirit, or a "different Gospel," from what they had received from Paul. But there is nothing about "telepathic deception" in Paul's remarks. Paul appears to be referring in verses 3-4, not to demonic agents working on a telepathic level, but to human ones speaking out loud, which he confirmed later in the chapter when he wrote:

Alfred Persson said:
Hate to break the news, but minds use the organ of the brain to think, reason. Therefore, a corruption of the mind begins first with the organ of the brain.

Your reply here is an obvious deflection of my point. Paul says not one word about "telepathic deception" by the demonic in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4.

Tenchi said:
Paul didn't write anything about the "telepathic messaging" of Satan in this passage. He said only that the devil - the "god of this world" - had blinded the minds of Paul's contemporaries. How? Paul didn't say explicitly, but implied that this was done, at least in part, by way of the neglect of the preaching of the Gospel. It wasn't that the Gospel shone on the unbelieving and they rejected it, but that the light of the Gospel was kept from them lest, shining on them, it should save them.

Alfred Persson said:
That’s correct, not explicitly. But when he says demons blind minds, they do so by flooding the brain with disinformation. They do that telepathically. Spirits don’t have physical mouths, they are spirits. Words require breath, vocal cords, things a spirit is presumed not to have. So they communicate telepathically.

If you're going to cite a Bible passage in support of a claim, then it ought clearly to support it. What you've offered here, though, in reply to my observation is entirely assumed without any concrete basis in Paul's words whatever. Rather than argue, then, as though Paul has said what you theorize is the case, simply admit that your ideas about demonic telepathy are your ideas and argue for them from another, better basis.

On what grounds do you assert that demons act in the ways you've described? The spirits of the deceased in Scripture have mouths, wear clothing, move about in distinct forms. Why can't demonic spirits, too? Didn't Satan come before God in the first chapter of Job and speak to God? Yes, he did. And then he went out from God and destroyed Job's family, and possessions, and made Job very ill. Pretty impressive for a being that you think is entirely spirit.

Tenchi said:
Where is it said in this verse that the Holy Spirit spoke to the "prophets and teachers" gathered at Antioch by "bypassing the fleshly organ of the brain, in a non-verbal communication"? Nowhere. This is entirely an assumption one must read into the passage, not draw out of it.

Alfred Persson said:
Who is talking about prophets? The Holy Spirit spoke verbally to the disciples during this event. You said He doesn’t do that, you are wrong.

Have you not read the verses you cited in their context? The passage in Acts says nothing about how, exactly, the Holy Spirit spoke to the prophets and teachers gathered at Antioch.

Will respond more later.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You didn't understand my remarks. The passage in Luke 8 that you cited spoke of the devil snatching the
"seed" out of the minds of people, not putting things into their minds. How, then, does Luke 8:11-12 establish your idea that the devil communicates telepathically with the "flesh brain"? Why must taking something out of a person's mind require "telepathic communication"?

Break your reply up, several smaller posts. No one reads the long ones. I don't want to answer a long one, its too exhausting.

Lets start with your first statement.

It is elementary some type of communication is being discussed.

How is he doing that? Does he have a "long handle devil's claw" that digs into hearts and snatches the Word of God out of it?

Does he beat a drum till truth is beaten out of the heart?

What do you propose the devil does? Is he dancing until the truth is snatched out?

HOW, precisely, does the devil "take away the word out of their hearts".

"Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Lk. 8:12 NKJ)

How does the devil do that, according to your best theory?

Does he massage feet until the truth is snatched out of the heart.

Tell me the likely body parts invovled for the Tempter to tempt people with evil?

Describe exactly how the devil snatches truth from hearts, what body parts are invovled, and how does he do that without using vocal cords, and breath, and a tongue?

Perhaps you claim he has a body, with a mouth. So all we need are good earplugs to stop his tempting us. Why didn't the apostles say so in Scripture?

 

[Tenchi]

Break you post up into several posts. No one reads the long ones. Lets start with your first. It is elementary some type of communication is being discussed. So we look at the "actors" involved. The Devil is snatching truth from the heart of those who heard the gospel preached.

How is he doing that? Does he have a "long handle devil's claw" that digs into hearts and pulls out its guts?

Does he beat a drum till truth is beaten out of the heart?

What do you propose the devil does? Is he dancing a jig? Put spells on people?

YOU'RE the one fixating on the "how" of the devil snatching the seeds of truth from peoples' minds. YOU defend your ideas. I'm not going to do your work for you.

Also, I read long posts. So, your "no one reads long posts" isn't true.

It's my practice to respond to one post entirely at one time (if possible). I see no good reason not to continue to do so.

If you want smaller posts in our exchange, make smaller replies to my posts.

If the Devil, who scripture says "speaks" to false prophets via dreams visions voices, is communicating. How is it transmitted? Snail mail? Does he put subliminal messages on TV?

Again, you're the one who is proposing to define his methods. YOU defend them.

How do you propose the devil deceives people with falsehood? Does he put it in peoples food?

Does he massage feet until the truth is snatched out of the heart.

Tell me the likely body parts invovled for the Tempter to tempt people with evil?

Do you find, when you're snide like this, that it helps your exchanges with people?

 

[Alfred Persson]

YOU'RE the one fixating on the "how" of the devil snatching the seeds of truth from peoples' minds. YOU defend your ideas. I'm not going to do your work for you.

Also, I read long posts. So, your "no one reads long posts" isn't true.

It's my practice to respond to one post entirely at one time (if possible). I see no good reason not to continue to do so.

If you want smaller posts in our exchange, make smaller replies to my posts.



Again, you're the one who is proposing to define his methods. YOU defend them.



Do you find, when you're snide like this, that it helps your exchanges with people?

Of course I dispense practical knowledge, revealed in scripture. Otherwise, why post.

False prophets are known by their contradicting scripture. God does not lie, therefore "versions of the truth" don't exist. There is God's truth, and the rest is falsehood.

False prophets can also be known by their claims God is speaking to them in audible voice, "voice thought projections" that actually drive those "hearing" them, away from scripture to their voices.

Some of these folks end up pushing shopping carts filled with bags containing who knows what, down the street, as they argue with a voice they hear in their head.

Which is where the brain is.

But if you were standing next to them, you won't hear the voice they hear. Evidently, its not audible to the ears. THAT means its telepathically communicated.

 

[Tenchi]

Your charges of Gnosticism are absurd. I cited Paul's words, is he a gnostic?

I take it you don't understand what Gnosticism is? You offered what looks to me to be a gnostic interpretation of Paul's words, not his words entirely unadorned with your ideas. If you find my view of your thinking "absurd," try adjusting your thinking, or, at least, try to be clearer in your meaning.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; f (Rom. 7:18 NKJ)

And the things I already observed? Do have an answer to them? Or just this deflective quotation of Paul, as though the verse you've offered here clearly communicates your Gnostic view of it?

Walking according to the flesh is to be carnally minded, which means it involves the organ of the brain.

ALL living of any sort this side of the grave requires the "organ of the brain." If you're brain-dead, you can be neither fleshly-minded, nor Spirit-minded in a way that involves the brain. Obviously.

Everyone is "tempted" telepathically by the devil and his demons. When you enter a friends house and see a pile of money, telepathically a demon tempter will suggest "steal it."

Or, alternatively, the selfish, fleshly, sin-prone "old man" (Romans 6:6) the ultimate source of all one's sin, could covet the money, prompting the self-talk you've described as demonic. How do you distinguish the one from the other? Can you?

So far, all you've offered are verses ill-connected to your personal assumptions and theories about how demons act upon people. Maybe you're right. But, to this point, you haven't established your case clearly from Scripture. And so, it would behoove you to be a sight more modest in your assertions and criticisms of others in regards to this subject.

 

[Alfred Persson]

YOU'RE the one fixating on the "how" of the devil snatching the seeds of truth from peoples' minds. YOU defend your ideas. I'm not going to do your work for you.
...

Do you find, when you're snide like this, that it helps your exchanges with people?

I can't take someone serious who argues spirits don't communicate telepathically, because the Bible doesn't say they do. It only shows them communicating with the "mind".

As though that can happen without the brain. As though that can happen without some form of telepathic messaging.


There is "elementary deduction" we all use every day, that makes it obvious a spirit (with no vocal cords) who "teaches doctrines of demons" must be "speaking lies" telepathically:

NKJ 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
(1 Tim. 4:1-2 NKJ)

It is absurd, given the reports of spiritualists, ufo cults, non-Christian and pagan religious experiences, all of whom report spirits speak to "their minds in words and pictures", for you think they don't.

Then to argue "its not explicitly stated demons use telepathy to communicate" is sure proof they don't.

AND you haven't explained HOW people can give heed to deceiving spirits, if it isn't being communicated telepathically.

 

[Tenchi]

I can't take someone serious who argues spirits don't communicate telepathically, because the Bible doesn't say they do. It only shows them communicating with the "mind".

It may be that they do. But you haven't proven this is so from Scripture. So, be modest in your assertions. Don't challenge folks with assumptions and theories, as though you have certain, scriptural proof.

As though that can happen without the brain. As though that can happen without some form of telepathic messaging.

"As though" is not an argument.

There is "elementary deduction" we all use every day, that makes it obvious a spirit (with no vocal cords) who "teaches doctrines of demons" must be "speaking lies" telepathically

I've already pointed out that Satan - a spirit - spoke to God in the Book of Job. The immaterial souls of long-dead Moses and Elijah, wearing clothes, bearing discernible features, talked with Christ briefly on the Mount of Transfiguration. The immaterial souls of martyred saints under the altar in heaven in John's Revelation are wearing robes, and cry out with audible voices. It doesn't seem to me that being an immaterial spirit precludes audible speech at all...

It is absurd, given the reports of spiritualists, ufo cults, non-Christian and pagan religious experiences, all of whom report spirits speak to "their minds in words and pictures", for you think they don't.

My problem isn't really with the idea of the demonic inserting thoughts and feelings into the minds of people; it's with your coming on so strong about it with me, as though you had certain proof of what I knew would be mostly assumptions on your part.

If you want better scriptural support for your idea about demonic insertion of ideas and impulses into people than you've given me, you might consider Judas:

Luke 22:3-4
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.

John 13:2
2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

This isn't a knock-down punch for your theory about demon "telepathy" because Judas was actually possessed by the devil when the devil put it in Judas' heart to betray Jesus. But John 13:2 does, at least, suggest something like what you're theorizing about. Anyway, back off on being dogmatic on issues where you're position is weak.

 

[Alfred Persson]

It may be that they do. But you haven't proven this is so from Scripture. So, be modest in your assertions. Don't challenge folks with assumptions and theories, as though you have certain, scriptural proof.



"As though" is not an argument.



I've already pointed out that Satan - a spirit - spoke to God in the Book of Job. The immaterial souls of long-dead Moses and Elijah, wearing clothes, bearing discernible features, talked with Christ briefly on the Mount of Transfiguration. The immaterial souls of martyred saints under the altar in heaven in John's Revelation are wearing robes, and cry out with audible voices. It doesn't seem to me that being an immaterial spirit precludes audible speech at all...



My problem isn't really with the idea of the demonic inserting thoughts and feelings into the minds of people; it's with your coming on so strong about it with me, as though you had certain proof of what I knew would be mostly assumptions on your part.

If you want better scriptural support for your idea about demonic insertion of ideas and impulses into people than you've given me, you might consider Judas:

Luke 22:3-4
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.

John 13:2
2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

This isn't a knock-down punch for your theory about demon "telepathy" because Judas was actually possessed by the devil when the devil put it in Judas' heart to betray Jesus. But John 13:2 does, at least, suggest something like what you're theorizing about. Anyway, back off on being dogmatic on issues where you're position is weak.

Moses was resurrected, the Devil couldn't keep his body, God evidently did rebuke the Devil answering Michael's prayer:

9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" (Jude 1:9 NKJ)

How do we know this? Peter wanted to build tents for Moses and Elijah, so they were NOT spirits:

33 Then it happened, as they were parting from Him, that Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah "-- not knowing what he said. (Lk. 9:33 NKJ)

Spirits don't need tents. Elijah never died, he was taken into heaven while still alive:

11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (2 Ki. 2:11 NKJ)

Both return to earth so they can die, and be resurrected in a body like Christ's supernatural resurrection body:

11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.
12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.
(Rev. 11:11-12 NKJ)

Your refusal to employ elementary deduction is what I find so absurd. Satan and demons can blind minds, they do that through the organ of the brain.

They don 't use "flash cards", they don't "dance the jig", they inwardly inspire falsehood telepathically, a "deluding influence:

NAU 2 Thessalonians 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, (2 Thess. 2:11 NAU)

Test The Spirits in Dreams Visions Abductions | End Time News

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ) I had an "out of body" experience where the illusion I had traveled to heaven was very real, but Scripture implies Demons can "download" a...

endtimenews.net

Otherwise intelligent people believe in Evolution, despite the overwhelming mass of irrefutable evidence everything is intelligently designed. Why do they believe this? The god of this world blinded their minds, via telepathic suggestion. Otherwise the elementary deduction a building was built by someone, common sense logic----would be applied to structures infinitely more intelligently built than a building. All living things for example, especially manifest by the DNA code that life obeys like a software program. We know software programs cannot evolve by random change.

 

[Alfred Persson]

It may be that they do. But you haven't proven this is so from Scripture. So, be modest in your assertions. Don't challenge folks with assumptions and theories, as though you have certain, scriptural proof.

Logical deduction from "Implication" is the interpretive key opening the door to a mass of revelation, including the Orthodox doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

In Jesus' day Rabbinic argument often pivoted upon implied premise: Jesus asked the Pharisees "if David calls Christ 'my Lord' how can he be David's son? (Mt 22:41-45). This proves the Messiah is more than human.

" I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob" proves Sadducees twice wrong, not only about the afterlife as they denied human's soul or spirit survives physical death, but also the resurrection of the body for daily God is reminded of His promise the patriarchs and their offspring would inhabit the land physically forever (Gen. 17:7-8; 26:3; 28:13).

James quotes Amos 9:11-12 to prove Gentiles were always participants in God's salvation (Acts. 15:15-18);

Paul argues "This, 'He ascended'-- what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?'" (Eph. 4:9).

I find your rejection of simple logical deduction from scripture fact, absurd.

Its like denying a burglar got into a house by breaking in through a window, door or wall, because no one saw him do it. Its absurd to be that unthinking.

We wrestle with spiritual forces. How if not resisting their "telepathic temptations to do evil?"

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Eph. 6:12 NKJ)

The only ones not wrestling against them, are those who do the evil they tempt people to do:


NKJ Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph. 2:1-9 NKJ)

 

[F345T]

A few years ago i was watching a interview with the head pastor of a mega church and he was asked a question and he replied he just scraches everyone in his church itchy ears.

Most do these days.

Interesting that he would admit that though.