Fight or not??

[Drew]

My point is that we should be vocal about our concerns, but not to the people who make the laws. We need to pray to God because He is the one who has the power.

In that case, we disagree, and I see no Biblical support for this position. Quite the contrary, there is are very strong Biblical reasons to suggest that one important role for the church is to challenge the powers that be - calling them to obedience to the their true king - Jesus. Will they listen? Probably not, at least in most cases.

But that does not discharge us of our responsibility.

Luke:21:25: And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luke:21:26: Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke:21:27: And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke:21:28: And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

I do not see how this text supports your position.

 

[ronniechoate34]

okay then....

 

[Drew]

From John 16:

Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Jesus is teaching that it is specifically through the gift of the Holy Spirit that the world will be convicted. Who is the Spirit given to? All people? No. The Spirit is given solely to the church. Who is "the world" that will be convicted by it? Is it just "other sinners as individuals"?

Not likely. Jesus must certainly include the very institutions and systems that men have constructed - that is, the institutions of governance. After all, Jesus has spent the better part of His ministry announcing the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">God</st1:PlaceName> is here. How odd would it be for Jesus to announce a kingdom whose authority did not include the very institutions that govern society. How is that a kingdom?

One of the roles of the church is to challenge the world, including its institutions, with the gospel. And the gospel, despite widespread misunderstanding, is not "you can be saved by faith in Jesus". It is a proclamation of a new King just as Paul says in Romans 1:3-4. Jesus is now enthroned over all - not just our "inner lives" but all.

The Holy Spirit is given to the church. And the church then is the vehicle by which the world is convicted. So while it is of course the job of the church to “win soulsâ€, it is no less the job of the church to call implement the kingdom – to advocate for the enshrinement of <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">God</st1:PlaceName> values in government.<O:p</O:p

 

[jasoncran]

From John 16:

Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Jesus is teaching that it is specifically through the gift of the Holy Spirit that the world will be convicted. Who is the Spirit given to? All people? No. The Spirit is given solely to the church. Who is "the world" that will be convicted by it? Is it just "other sinners as individuals"?

Not likely. Jesus must certainly include the very institutions and systems that men have constructed - that is, the institutions of governance. After all, Jesus has spent the better part of His ministry announcing the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

</st1:PlaceType>kingdom of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">God</st1:PlaceName> is here. How odd would it be for Jesus to announce a kingdom whose authority did not include the very institutions that govern society. How is that a kingdom?

One of the roles of the church is to challenge the world, including its institutions, with the gospel. And the gospel, despite widespread misunderstanding, is not "you can be saved by faith in Jesus". It is a proclamation of a new King just as Paul says in Romans 1:3-4. Jesus is now enthroned over all - not just our "inner lives" but all.

The Holy Spirit is given to the church. And the church then is the vehicle by which the world is convicted. So while it is of course the job of the church to “win soulsâ€, it is no less the job of the church to call implement the kingdom – to advocate for the enshrinement of <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">God</st1:PlaceName> values in government.<O:p</O:p

the only problem with the church as state aside from valid actual attemps that have failed and murder of the jew and the murder of other christians etc. is that well war will happened as its said that wars shall occur and one cant always be peaceful. sometimes the guy is going to wanna fight and throws the punch and you have no means but to fight back.

 

[RockyVanRen]

We are here to spread the Good News not sit back and hide. I prefer the quote that’s been attributed recently to Bill Cosby “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.†For Christians I feel we should stop short grabbing our AK’s and charging the capitol but we should speak up.

 

[RoadDebris]

I don't see the Church being called to fight against such things except in the spiritual sense.

Thankfully most Christians don't see it your way. Example? Look at the American Civil war. Slavery would not have been forcibly abolished had it not been for the political force of the Christian abolitionists.