Finally working, but it seems as though my wife doesn't want to do any housework

[felix]

I will respond to this one time and one time only. After this response I will no longer respond to anything regarding wife only submission vs. mutual submission.

It is my belief that Ephesians 5:21 was never meant to be excluded from Ephesians 5:22-33. It was always meant to be included. My wife is not excluded from submission from me just because she is my wife. We are called to submit one to another. Not one to another unless the other person is your wife.

Ephesians 5:21 lays the groundwork for 5:22-33. Ephesians 5:22-33 is how submission is to be carried out by both genders in the marriage covenant.

That is my one and only response regarding submission in marriage. This is definitely one area where I will not be changing my beliefs.

Ephesians 5:21 has nothing to do with marriage. It is the ending verse of a statement that started in verse 17. Then from verse 22, it clearly calls out who is it referring to (i.e, Wives) till verse 24. Then in verse 25 on, it is for husbands.

If you think you had to submit to your wife, then your interpretation of the scripture verses in Ephesians 5:24 i.e, church making Christ to submit is simply wrong and unbiblical.

Scripture does not contradict.

 

[felix]

Felix I'm not really sure exactly what your point is here. Husbands, are to love our wives, as Christ loves His church. Christ doesn't judge his bride. His bride needs to be prepared. What the husband's responsibilty in marriage is, is his alone. It is NOT dependant of what the wife does or doesn't do, and the reverse is true as well. Rebuking a wife who does not or will not recognize her responsibility in a marriage is like throwing pearls to swine.

True, but one of the important responsibility of husbands is to rule over his wife as in Genesis, just as Christ rules over us here in His Kingdom. Many don't do this or take what is said in Bible seriously and hence face several authority related issues. I haven't seen a single verse about Church and Christ taking decisions in partnership with mutual submission.

It is true that Christ does not judge His Bride in Judgement but the word judge which I referred to - is making sure whether she can do that work or not - not related to judging her actions to give a verdict or comment based on her actions.

Man's responsibility is to rule over his family with love i.e, wife and children. Woman's responsibility is to help man in doing this with submission.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

True, but one of the important responsibility of husbands is to rule over his wife as in Genesis, just as Christ rules over us here in His Kingdom. Many don't do this or take what is said in Bible seriously and hence face several authority related issues. I haven't seen a single verse about Church and Christ taking decisions in partnership with mutual submission.

It is true that Christ does not judge His Bride in Judgement but the word judge which I referred to - is making sure whether she can do that work or not - not related to judging her actions to give a verdict or comment based on her actions.

Man's responsibility is to rule over his family with love i.e, wife and children. Woman's responsibility is to help man in doing this with submission.

"rule over her"... that sounds so ridiculous, you have no idea. Good luck finding a woman who's dreaming of you "ruling over" her. It's attitudes like that which lead to evils like spousal abuse, infidelity, polygamy, and a general attitude of misogyny in society.

 

[felix]

"rule over her"... that sounds so ridiculous, you have no idea. Good luck finding a woman who's dreaming of you "ruling over" her. It's attitudes like that which lead to evils like spousal abuse, infidelity, polygamy, and a general attitude of misogyny in society.

I was speaking to Christians about Christian men and women. I wasn't referring to anny non-Christians as they does not know it was spoken by God in Gen 3:16.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

I was speaking to Christians about Christian men and women. I wasn't referring to anny non-Christians as they does not know it was spoken by God in Gen 3:16.

You think God's laws apply only to Christians? Totally incorrect. They apply to all of us, Christians do not have a monopoly on Biblical truth.

I'm aware that it is popular for those espousing your philosophy to quote Genesis 3:16. What baffles me is how they neglect several earlier passages from Genesis, most notably Genesis 1 27-28 (both were created in God's image, both were commanded to be fruitful and rule over the Earth. The command was not given solely to Adam). Also in Genesis 2:18, the word translated as "helper" is used multiple times throughout the Bible to refer to God. So far as I know, God is not beneath man.

 

[felix]

You think God's laws apply only to Christians? Totally incorrect. They apply to all of us, Christians do not have a monopoly on Biblical truth.

I'm aware that it is popular for those espousing your philosophy to quote Genesis 3:16. What baffles me is how they neglect several earlier passages from Genesis, most notably Genesis 1 27-28 (both were created in God's image, both were commanded to be fruitful and rule over the Earth. The command was not given solely to Adam). Also in Genesis 2:18, the word translated as "helper" is used multiple times throughout the Bible to refer to God. So far as I know, God is not beneath man.

I don't what you to deviate me from what you said which made me reply this.

You said: "rule over her"... that sounds so ridiculous, you have no idea

I just want to make sure you understand that the above ridiculous statement (as per you) is spoken by God. Hence, I wasn't speaking to any non-Christians who make fun of God's Words and does not understand what Bible actually speaks as in Eph 5:23-24.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

I don't what you to deviate me from what you said which made me reply this.

You said: "rule over her"... that sounds so ridiculous, you have no idea

I just want to make sure you understand that the above ridiculous statement (as per you) is spoken by God. Hence, I wasn't speaking to any non-Christians who make fun of God's Words and does not understand what Bible actually speaks as in Eph 5:23-24.

Actually, Ephesians was not spoken; it's a written letter to a specific church and was written by Paul to deal with situations occurring at the aforementioned specific church in Ephesus.

 

[felix]

Actually, Ephesians was not spoken; it's a written letter to a specific church and was written by Paul to deal with situations occurring at the aforementioned specific church in Ephesus.

I was referring to God speaking in Genesis 3:16. Why are you jumping to say as if I am saying "Ephesus are speaking" even through I said "Bible is speaking in Ephesus".

 

[DarkHorseRising]

I was referring to God speaking in Genesis 3:16. Why are you jumping to say as if I am saying "Ephesus are speaking" even through I said "Bible is speaking in Ephesus".

<sup class="versenum"> </sup>To the woman he said,“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you. â€




The Woman spoken to was Eve. You think this applies to all women, forever? Do you think God punishes you for the actions of every male in history?

 

[joethemechanic]

You think this applies to all women, forever?

YES

17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.â€

And YES to this too,,,,, forever

 

[handy]

Boidae,

First of all, I'm so glad you finally have a job... praise God!!!

My niece has MS and has had 4 pregnancies. Each time she was extremely fatigued. Most of the time, she's really on the ball and no one would ever know how sick she is... but during her pregnancies she really needed a lot of rest. Usually, whenever she's been pregnant, either her mother or her mother-in-law were there to do the housework, allowing her to simply rest...even if rest was getting out of the house for a while. I mean that... for pretty much the entire pregnancy and up to about a month or so after the babies were born, my sister would go and live with them for weeks to months and when she couldn't be there, my niece's mother-in-law would come to help. This isn't because my niece is lazy... the MS combined with the pregnancy just caused her to not be able to do much at all.

It doesn't sound as if your wife has the support of women in her family like my niece does. So, it's all falling on you.

Housework can become very overwhelming if one is already fatigued and also if one is dealing with depression... which your wife very well may be. Also, it sounds as if she's never been much of a housekeeper and you've done the job for quite a while. Now, you're working, she's not except for a day or two and things aren't getting done.

She sounds very defensive about the whole thing... you haven't shared what she says is her reason for not doing a reasonable amount of housework so I'm assuming she isn't giving one, but rather becoming defensive and going on the attack with the "you're trying to control me" accusation.

The fact that she's being so defensive (if I have that part right) is probably because she's feeling under conviction about the whole thing and isn't up to dealing with it. So, she's avoiding it by going out with friends and pushing it back on you via the "control" accusation.

The key to being able to unravel all of this is to be able to have meaningful conversation where she isn't becoming defensive and the whole thing dissolving into an argument. I think that's where you need to start with her... not on the issue of the housework itself, but on the fact that the two of you need to have a constructive conversation about it, where both of you feel free to express what's really going on in each of your hearts without feeling like the other is going to go on the attack.

Once you've come to a real understanding of what's really in her heart about this whole issue, then you can work towards resolving it. At this point, I don't think you do have that understanding. Because if you did, I think you would have shared with us what it is... as it is, you seem clueless about why she's acting this way.

 

[Boidae21]

Boidae,

First of all, I'm so glad you finally have a job... praise God!!!

My niece has MS and has had 4 pregnancies. Each time she was extremely fatigued. Most of the time, she's really on the ball and no one would ever know how sick she is... but during her pregnancies she really needed a lot of rest. Usually, whenever she's been pregnant, either her mother or her mother-in-law were there to do the housework, allowing her to simply rest...even if rest was getting out of the house for a while. I mean that... for pretty much the entire pregnancy and up to about a month or so after the babies were born, my sister would go and live with them for weeks to months and when she couldn't be there, my niece's mother-in-law would come to help. This isn't because my niece is lazy... the MS combined with the pregnancy just caused her to not be able to do much at all.

It doesn't sound as if your wife has the support of women in her family like my niece does. So, it's all falling on you.

Housework can become very overwhelming if one is already fatigued and also if one is dealing with depression... which your wife very well may be. Also, it sounds as if she's never been much of a housekeeper and you've done the job for quite a while. Now, you're working, she's not except for a day or two and things aren't getting done.

She sounds very defensive about the whole thing... you haven't shared what she says is her reason for not doing a reasonable amount of housework so I'm assuming she isn't giving one, but rather becoming defensive and going on the attack with the "you're trying to control me" accusation.

The fact that she's being so defensive (if I have that part right) is probably because she's feeling under conviction about the whole thing and isn't up to dealing with it. So, she's avoiding it by going out with friends and pushing it back on you via the "control" accusation.

The key to being able to unravel all of this is to be able to have meaningful conversation where she isn't becoming defensive and the whole thing dissolving into an argument. I think that's where you need to start with her... not on the issue of the housework itself, but on the fact that the two of you need to have a constructive conversation about it, where both of you feel free to express what's really going on in each of your hearts without feeling like the other is going to go on the attack.

Once you've come to a real understanding of what's really in her heart about this whole issue, then you can work towards resolving it. At this point, I don't think you do have that understanding. Because if you did, I think you would have shared with us what it is... as it is, you seem clueless about why she's acting this way.

You're right, I am completely clueless as to why she's acting this way. When I do bring it up, it devolves very quickly into an argument. Seems there is never a good time to talk about it.

You are also right that she doesn't have any female help. Her mom lives over 20 miles away and doesn't drive. Her sister doesn't speak to her. She doesn't want my mom's help and I honestly don't blame her. My mom doesn't do anything without expecting something in return, plus my mom IS a very controlling person and is the reason why I am not. I know what it's like to live under a controlling person. My mom and my wife rarely talk and when they do, I am always there.

I am not asking for the house to be spotless, just that she does something to help, anything to help.

I am going to be leaving for work in a few minutes. She goes into work today as well.

 

[handy]

Try to have a conversation that isn't so much about the housework, but about how she's coping with the pregnancy and the prospect of what it's going to be like once the baby is here. She might just have a lot of depression and fear about how she's going to have the capability to be a mom with the MS... and, depression can easily cause housework to be the most overwhelming thing to do... I speak from experience on this...

Once the two of you are fully understanding where the other one is coming from... then you can tackle the housework issue again.

Just to share what my husband and I did when housework was an issue for us (we had adopted our daughter who had severe... and I mean SEVERE.. behavior issues. Just dealing with her left me physically, emotionally and mentally drained and the housework went by the wayside.)

I felt bad because Steve would work really long hours and then come home to a mess and I knew it was frustrating him as well. But, I just couldn't keep a clean house at the time either. For me, the prospect of trying to clean the house when dealing with our daughter was so overwhelming, I wound up not doing anything at all.

What finally got worked out was that all Steve really cared about was having the kitchen clean and some supper when he got home. He was more than willing to compromise on the rest of the house... just some food and a clean place to eat it was that he really needed. And believe me, at the time, it took all of the 12-14 hours he was away, just to get the dishes from the previous night's supper done and get a new supper ready for him. But, having that done for him made all the difference in the world as far as he was concerned. I would have the kitchen looking good (as long as one didn't check the refrigerator or panty too closely) and when he came home, he would throw a load of clothes in the washing machine and after eating put it in the dryer. Then while we were relaxing after supper, we would fold and put away the laundry. In this way, the dishes were done daily and some laundry got done daily. On one of his day's off, some vacuuming and dusting would happen and that was about all that happened on the housework front for well over a year.

By realizing that I really didn't need to bother with everything, just those two things, keeping the kitchen tidy and having a supper ready... I didn't feel as much pressure. If you're wife is going through anything like I was going through back then, you can't imagine the overwhelming pressure she's under.

At any rate, I do encourage you to set aside the housekeeping for awhile and work on finding out just what's going on in your wife's heart. Once the two of you are having meaningful conversations and are understanding each other, I think you'll be able to find a solution to the housekeeping issue.

One that...by the way... will need to be re-negotiated once the baby arrives.